780. - Bon Iver

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Beautiful Sunday. Them jeans, your home, it's hot. It's not quite hot here, but at least it's not raining. What's really good, baby? Oh, man. What is good? Yeah, I'm just coming off of Bon Iver basketball tournament. I realize that we haven't had a little one-on-one pod in a while, and this is also not a one-on-one pod. So I think there's a lot of things that we didn't talk about, but I'm trying to remember what it was. I mean, I mentioned the H&M party that I went to last week. I think that ship has sailed. There was a helicopter crash in New York. I didn't hear anybody. I didn't hear anybody talking about it. So yeah, I guess it did sail. Yeah, helicopter crash. For all the people that sent me the helicopter crash, it was a sightseeing plane, not a blade. So please keep your opinions to yourself. I will still be blading. I don't give a fuck. And I was listening to Tim Dillon this morning. He was like, maybe people, maybe we don't need to do helicopter tours. Go to a rooftop bar and look at the skyline. And you'll get the same kind of effect, which I think is good advice. I've always thought, I mean, I feel like when Helicopter Tours first came out in whatever it was, the 60s or 70s, I think then it was really cool and special because our world was still kind of one-dimensional to us. But now that we are living in the Google Earth and drones and everything,

I think getting a helicopter tour is not really as special as it used to be. And you fly into Hawaii, guess what? You see that shit from the airplane when it lands. Boom. We only want it for the picture, right? We only want it for our content. But I was talking to Carolyn about it, and she was like, hmm. This could be some helicopter market manipulation, and this could be a good time to buy the helicopter dip, whatever that may be. I don't know what that is, but do you own any helicopter stock? And any of the big three? I couldn't tell you what the big three are. I don't think there's a way to bet on helicopters. But it does feel like... It's not betting, bro. It's a luxury that should be only used for transportation and not for sightseeing. That's my main takeaway. Military use, of course. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Our first, yeah, of course. Then they should also board the plane first. You know what I mean? Let's not forget that. Speaking of that, when we were... leaving speaking of our guest today bonnie ver as well and if you're listening to us right now as a bonnie ver fan and you don't care to hear uh myself or chris talk you can either fast forward about 12 minutes or you can go fuck yourself and then uh wow i didn't think you were gonna go that because that's that's what happens anytime we have a guest on like this it's like somebody posts like, oh, the actual interview starts at this time, so they don't have to listen to us or our ads. They just get to listen to their favorite. Which, honestly, I understand, and I think it's a valuable resource because I have tried to listen to interviews with people for educational purposes or for something. I'm trying to gather information, not just be entertained and hear people talk. And it is nice to know that because many times the hosts of the podcast, are really just blabbing on about bullshit but luckily we're good at blabbing on about bullshit oh that's our job i mean i i don't know who hates who do you think's gonna hate us more car seat headrest fans or bonnie bear fans honestly after the car seat headrest episode i got hundreds of little critters following me and i don't know i think they for whatever reason i i think it's i think it's a hate follow there's no way those people like us i think we're funny there's no way but well that's the that's the key word you said us

I'm talking about me, brother. Good point. We all know I'm a little bit more of a friend to that community. I have a little more of an open heart for those folks. You know what I mean? It's crazy to me that you're lying right now in this manner, but I'm going to let you rock. No, I'm not lying. I'm not lying, bro. Come on. Bro, I know who you hang out with. You don't hang out with any critters. That's for fucking sure. I'm not saying that, you know, critters are not my day ones. That's not my circle small. I only keep a few critters on me. It's not like that. It's more so, I mean, we're both empathetic and sweethearts to certain communities, but I'm saying that specific world of... whatever it may be you know people that might play role-playing card games or yeah that's true i have no interest yeah i have no interest in those people you you yeah you put up a little bit taller of a wall than i do i would like the wall to be i would like the wall to be more like the sphere like there's no way to enter if we get you want it to be impenetrable whereas i'm like you know if they're hot they can come in i mean that kind of thing if you're into elven play you know You find me a chick that looks like Zelda, you know, like, let's, you know, what's good? Oh, okay. No, no, no, I feel that. I feel that. Zelda is hot. Zelda's hot. Yeah, and speaking of, I saw a guy playing basketball yesterday at the Bon Iver basketball activation powered by something, and there was a white guy there who was too swagged out. He was playing basketball with a bunch of people, some good, some bad, and he was, you know when you see, like, the white guy who, He looks like he's homeschooled, but also grew up in the city, in New York. He has everything that could be accessorized, is accessorized, like one shoe, the pant is over, and then the other leg, the shoe is completely exposed. But is he sick with it on the court? That's what matters. He was kind of sick with it.

You know, like, everything that could be accessorized differently, like, I'm going to wear this hoodie, like, over one arm and around my shoulder. Sure, sure, sure. You know, I'm going to have, like, an AirPod in my teeth. I'm going to be, you know, like, whatever all this shit was, he needed to dial it back. But he had, you know, the tape that people put on the joints when they're injured, and it looks kind of cool and, like, tech? Yes. What's it called? It's, like, it starts with a K. I can't remember what it's called. But, yes. kinesiology tape yeah yeah but he had the kinesiology tape and somebody you can tell he had like a professional person apply it and it was up the it was a full exoskeleton of kinesiology tape and this is a 95 pound white guy up his arms legs shoulders thigh you know the whole fucking thing um and he and i why i brought this all up because he he looked like Like if Zelda was a girl. Editor's note, I meant to say Link. Anyway, yeah, I mean, Bon Iver, we went to his house in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. We went to Culver's. We went to Jimmy John's. We hung out. We saw Bob Dylan. And we had this video conversation, our very first video podcast. And it went very well. Yeah, it was fun. I'm glad we went. I'm glad we made the effort. I'm glad we visited the Midwest. I think that it's honestly a place that was a blind spot for me and now I've learned to love it. Even though the food is not good for the hips, the vibe was pretty nice, I have to say. It's something very exclusive to that part of the country. I feel like the South, all the special stuff has been exported. or exploited whereas the stuff that we were discovering in wisconsin i had truly as a lifelong american never heard of i was like actually learning stuff so i was i was appreciative of that yeah i guess it makes you wonder is it because what they have to offer is not really of interest to the greater population or are they just really good at gatekeeping or maybe a little bit of both i mean you know how how far can the wings of sauerkraut

spread and fly you know what i mean sauerkraut no but cheese yes you know cheese is a pretty beloved item i just think the way that they uh yeah but they can't they can't own cheese i mean they kind of do they wear cheese on their heads at a football game i know but like they didn't they didn't invent it and cheese is is manufactured and popularized all over the world and i would say that you know entire countries are No shade than the state of Wisconsin. Which country is known for cheese? Because I don't know. I'm asking. France. Oh, yeah. Spain. Italy. Everything in France is bad. I didn't know Spain was known for cheese. That is news to me. That is news to me. Wait, are you calling BS on me? No, I'm just saying that I'm sure every country makes cheese, but known for it is a very different thing. Bro, have you ever heard of a little thing called... Manchego. That's true. They have one. That's fair. I have an infographic of all the top quesos de España. Yeah, I get you. It's in your inbox. Thank you for that. All the location maps are spread out there. It's pretty easy to follow. Before we get to our conversation with Jess, I'd like to make fun of Bernie Sanders, if we could, just for a little while. Because it seems that he's really... making the rounds, uh, doing his event in LA, but also I guess taking his way downtown. He must've taken a helicopter to get to, to get to Coachella in time to introduce Claro. And there's a lot of pictures of them and they're being made fun of as a May, December romance. Yeah. Friend of the show, Tom tuna age gap. April is upon us. You mentioned in the earlier via text message, a lot of people are quote unquote shipping them as a couple. And that would be, That would be something truly beyond Lana Del Rey's dating habits in terms of bewilderment, right? I mean, at this point... How old is Bernie? Dead? I don't know. He's fucking... I mean, he's 125. 83. Also, fellow Virgo. I'm sure. I mean, between the picture of him with Claro embracing and the picture of him standing in front of the Misfits logo wall,

It's time to put Bernie back in the private plane to Vermont. Do you think that his helicopter from LAX, or from Van Nuys to Indio, had writing on the windows that said Coachella LLA 2025 on it? I really hope. I hope he has some cool staffers who took care of that for him. I wouldn't need us to stop raising canes on the way, is what he said to his pilot. I really wonder. I really wonder. I know that you don't like Bernie, but I think everyone else I know likes him. But I think people like him because he's just the, I mean, I don't not like Bernie. I just think that it's corny to trot people out. Like, that's all. I don't think, like, his beliefs are right. He's just the, I just, it feels pandering, bro. It's like, why are we bringing Bernie Sanders to Coachella? This is a place to do ketamine and see Benson Boone do a flip. Like, this isn't the place. I mean, but I guess every space is a political space now because of the world that we live in. So I shouldn't be too surprised. I like using ketamine and Benson Boone. Those were two Venn diagrams that I had never considered colliding, but I'm sure there's a couple K-heads out there who are riding for the Boone Man. I think Benson himself is maybe the best example. I think to do a... To do a front flip. I don't think Benson Boone has ever done a drug in his life. No, I think he's a dark. I think it's dark in there. That's my guess. Any guy that presents like that. First of all, he covered Queen, one of the worst bands of all time, with Brian May from Queen. Wrong. Which is like also the ultimate. I mean, how much corny can you get? Bro, hold this L. Queen is not corny. Queen is a legendary band. Corny. Corny as fuck. You can be legendary and corny. You know that. Okay, I think Queen is good. I think they're good at playing music, and they've written dozens of amazing songs. You ain't putting a Queen song on. You ain't putting a Queen song on. You would never listen to Queen on your own volition. When I was younger, I listened to Queen a lot.

Interesting. Hit the L and listen to Queen. Queen, ACDC, all that shit. Corny. To put Queen and ACDC in the same category means there's no reason for us to continue this conversation. It is. It's Boomer. It's Boomer. It's Boomer Rock. That's what it is. That's who it's for. No, Queen is gay, cinematic, beautiful songwriting operas. ACDC are three lunkheads. Playing Chugga Chugga riff. Anything opera is corny except the real opera. That's my whole point. I don't need someone being operatic. The Gaga shade is intolerated. No, Gaga's got actual hits. The Arca shade, intolerated. I've never heard an Arca song, but I'm sure they exist. The Bon Iver shade. His current album, Sable Fable, is categorized in the similar style of a classical opera movement. But we can go on and on about this. I just like that Bernie is older than Biden, and he's able to walk around and talk and have coherent thoughts and have spirited arguments with people. But it does feel a little too little and too late. We obviously should have had Bernie run instead of Joe Biden. Well, that's the problem. Bernie can never win. That's the problem. That's why it also seems sort of funny. There's no way he's too extreme. He could never actually win. But I think that's why a certain kind of person rallies around him because it's like a utopian society. You know what I mean? It's kind of like he represents a lot of great things, but he can't win. If he could win, he would have won. I think it'll take two Trump terms to finally make Bernie be able to win. But at that point, he will. will he 87 years old and at that point i don't think you know the same way that there's a an age restriction for being coming president you have to be a certain amount of years there should be a cutoff as well of course and i never thought that we would get to the point where we would have to instill government mandated age cutoffs we're like sorry bro

You're 92 years old. You're not even allowed to go potty by yourself. You should not know the nuclear codes. We took away your real ID and your driver's license. We're not giving you the codes. Okay, chief? Yeah, you ran over your daughter's first child backing out of the driveway. You should not be negotiating with China. It's really crazy how old politicians are, though. It really is. When there's so many bright young people, like young people meaning 50s. You know what I mean? That's what young people – like it's insane that we can only – There's some of these baby-faced gray-haired whippersnappers out there. It's crazy that we can only – They're only 57. It's crazy that we can only elect guys who are 140. Like it's really – it's so crazy. But I mean – and I mean whatever. That's a whole other issue. Bernie is just another part of the patriarchy controlling us. But that's the most frustrating part is Donald Trump. He gets behind the wheel of a golf cart. and he mans it perfectly fine, but then he can't say a sentence like a normal human would, whereas Bernie can just debate with the best of them with true spirit and fervor and all that stuff. But much like the grandma on The Sopranos, he will put the car into drive thinking it's in reverse, turn his head back to look over the shoulder, and then drive through the garage door. And we just can't handle that as our leader. We can't. Honestly, we can't, though. Our priorities have shifted. Our priorities have shifted. Well, yeah, I mean, I did see Bill Maher went to dinner at the White House with his friend Bob, a.k.a. Kid Rock, and Dana White from the MMA. Yeah, the king of lean gut champion, Kid Rock. All these motherfuckers got lean gut. But, I mean... But he went on the show, he basically did like a monologue telling his story about going. And he basically said that like, my takeaway was he was like, President Trump was pretty cool to me. And like, he basically had, I mean, this is fucking funny. He had an intern or his assistants or whatever, write, like print out a piece of paper that had all of the 65 insults that he had said about Bill Maher over the last two years. I mean, that Bill had said about...

Trump? No, no, no, that Trump had said about Bill. So Bill Maher gets made fun of by Donald Trump. He has the employees collate the 66 dishes or whatever into a document and then ask Trump to sign the document. And he does. That's nice. That's nice. That's a funny thing to have in here. But I do wonder, I really do wonder what is being unpacked at a dinner of, as you said, lug heads. uh of that caliber you know what is what do you guys like are you talking about sports are you talking about actual stuff you know i just i wonder they're probably talking about how andrew schultz used to be better before he started talking about the the embryo stuff They're probably talking about, you know. Look, I liked his early stuff. Theo Vaughn's sister is actually kind of hot. Whatever it may be. The importance. I hope that's what they're talking about. I hope that's what they're talking about. I mean, I want them to be talking. I mean, obviously, you know, them hanging out together is just one of those things where it's like, you know, you got to do it for the story. Of course. Even if you disagree with it and you will be embarrassed when people bring it up. down the line potentially you know when you do we've all done embarrassing stuff you know but i i think that that is is like on the public record you know in a different way but it's pretty funny overall at least you gotta sign this dish yeah i mean i hope one day that i am i am forced to decide at that crossroads of you know should we have this person on the show you know yeah i hope that we have to make that decision i don't want to platform any nerds that's my main thing but you know sometimes they slip through the cracks all right if kanye wants to come on that's gonna be a hard decision you know what i mean i actually would not platform kanye i i really would not does it even qualify as platforming when it's him and us i think he doesn't have anything to gain from us you know what i mean our platform Doesn't offer much. Yeah, but I think the term platformed is what you use, though, in that situation. I agree with you that he doesn't have much to gain. I mean, I don't know what he has to gain from anyone. But I also maintain that Kanye West is broke, and this is all bullshit. I maintain that, and I think I'm going to be – I've said that for months, and I think I'm going to be proven right in the near future. Throw that shit up on DraftKings. Let's see what happens. Put a little scratch down on there. Let's see what happens. Friend of the show, Justin Bon Iver.

Our conversation about meat raffles, music making, salmon, things of that nature. Please enjoy. Oh, also, it's available on video. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly, a website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. You know, they focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Okay, we're here in the studio with Justin. What's up, Rob? What's up? Do you have a name for this lab? I mean, the whole place is called April Base. Yeah, I saw that in your email. What does that mean? It's the military base where Fox Mulder's younger sister was taken.

from in the X-Files. In the X-Files, Chris. All right, nerd. Didn't know that was going to be the answer. But also, your birthday's in April? Yeah, it's sort of like, if there's really a new year, it should be April 1st, right? It's like when spring is new, it makes no sense that the new year's. April motherfucker would say that. Yeah, yeah. That's often the fiscal year in the corporate world. Yeah, I see what I'm saying. You're locked in with that stuff. Tax day should be New Year's now or whatever. You're a Q2 guy. Yeah. I don't really start kicking stuff. Everything really happens in Q2. Yeah, yeah. we don't talk about one okay so we we had dinner last night and you asked us what our birthdays were and i answered oh we're both virgos isn't that something and then you're like uh that means nothing to me daddy needs numbers yeah i need birth times i need birth cities i was like justin you're talking like my exes yeah this sounds like yeah this literally sounds like a raya day so how are you trying to fix me knowing my birthday is september 4th Beyonce's birthday. Is it? Yeah, her and I share a birthday. Well, I would never try to fix you. First and foremost. You know, it's funny. You ask that. I'm just like, what do I really think I would glean from knowing it? Well, you're a numbers guy. I mean, I like numbers, but I don't know anything about them. Sure. So you like to hear it. It feels good. You don't really have any way to process that. I'm only looking for the patterns that reflect back on me or me understanding myself more. How can I make your birthday about me with numbers? That also sounds like some of Jason's ex-girlfriends. Hi, hi, and hi. Miss you girls. I don't. Have you always been a numerology? people are into them and they'll like find the person that gets them into it or whatever. Some people, it seems it's like it's inherently from birth. You were born with the abacus in your hand. It's far from the abacus zone. It's just the, you know, the number 22 is always my number, like in basketball or just like I saw it on the clock. I think I was born.

Sorry, deuces up. I think you were born, too, because you're here with us right now. I was born. At a 22, a 22, I think, or at least that's what I've now kind of conglomerated my memories. This is the character you've assumed. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But that's it. 11 has always been a number that's popped up in my life. See, that's half of me. But that's like the... I don't have a fucking number. You don't? You don't have a number. I like all the numbers. Yeah, I've never thought about a number once in my life. No. I mean, I... What's your favorite number? I like all of them. I like all of them. I literally have never thought about it. I understand that it's like a luck thing, and that's why most people think of it that way, or there's some sort of historical meaning. What about an angel number? Do you know what that is? I think it's numbers that are watching over you. I feel like that's my 22. And the number I bet on roulette. What number would you bet on roulette if you were going to do roulette? You know, funny you ask that, Justin. I'm really adverse to gambling. As a drug addict, I picked that. I was like, this is fun. I don't want to lose money. I want to make money. You want to gamble with his life. Yeah, I like to gamble with my life. It's honestly true. But I do think it's sports betting. I don't understand because I don't really follow sports. But roulette, you literally pick a number and pray. Yeah, that's great. That does sound fun. Are you up right now? Actually, yeah, I was with Yachty randomly in Vegas because we did a little talk together. Lil. Okay. What a sweet man. Like, seriously, we had so much fun. But, like, he was like, you want to go gambling? It's like, yeah. Like, maybe I'm going to go gambling, like, on a little higher level than I usually do. But he pulled out a stack. And I was like, I was going to watch. Like, he played blackjack, which I can't play. But. So I watched him play like five hands at a time, and then I went, and I was like, there was a high roller roulette table, and I had like 200 bucks in my pocket from the last time I went to Ho-Chunk Casino. And I put it down, and I won, and I got like 1,800 bucks, and it just sits in my wallet. That's nice. That's good. 1,800 is a nice. You can't go to the ATM. 1,800 is enough to be excited about.

It's more than walking around money. You could walk in and buy a MacBook Pro, which is cool. You could buy a Civic from a certain year. You ever bought a MacBook in cash? I'm an air guy anyways. Hell yeah. Welcome to the resistance, brother. I'm done with pro. Well, that's because you probably have some crazy desktop units here. Yeah, it's only out where you can see him. I go in the airs. In the back, it's some sort of behemoth. That's so funny that you say that because I really think that... You're mining Bitcoin back there and shit. There did look like a Bitcoin mining room over here to the left. I felt the breeze when I walked by. Yeah, yeah. Like your server farm. Yeah, you're in the server farm room. You could feel the 5G in the back of your throat when you get up on the property. In my feelings, yeah. Okay, so your MacBook Air only gives you enough. Yep. Okay. But you're using that to, like, send emails. Yeah. And, like, look at Safari. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not using that for any checking your sites. I did actually mix the EP on this MacBook Air and finished off in the hotel room in Brooklyn last fall. Really? It did give me some trouble. There were some latency issues. We got there. Okay, so you're in a hotel room in Brooklyn with the headphones on with the air. Yeah, the air. And you're just like, fuck it, I'm going to get it done here. Like the final mix or just messing around for fun? Final, final. I was running out of time. The final was final, final. Yeah, at the end, it's like new, new, new, best. New, new, new, 01, 01. V19 final. My file managing skills have definitely just... plummeted year after year over who cares man yeah somebody will deal with this is something i gotta i'm really bad like if somebody asked me for a photo i literally have to just open a folder and scroll one by one they're literally just the names that come back from the developing lab like i don't rename anything i used to be the archivist in my friend group like with brad and everybody like um I would have all these folders and I would organize them and I would scan old photos and I would have them all. I still have all those, but then when Apple started doing it for you, then I've just lost all organizational skills. I think in a year or two, AI will be able to find whatever image you need. You can just search by name. You can just say Jason Stewart and it'll just boom. When I pull up my iPhoto.

You might be first. Easter 2019. We got Easter 2019. They're making the video. It's nice. Has there ever been a slideshow on Apple where they've used a Bon Ivert song? You mean like on a commercial? Well, no, we'll get to that. But I mean, when you have a new memory, it's like Easter 2017, and then you hit a button and some smooth, beautiful, euphoric music happens. That would have maybe sent me down. But just think about the royalties. Because 19 billion moms open that every day. Cha-ching. That is one of the worst Apple features, but I also can't help but use it. Like when it comes up, I turn off the video and turn it to photo and then scroll through the stuff. I have trouble getting to that step. Like, I don't know why it's always in video. And then I'm like, well, I guess I can't look at these photos because it's just the video. It's the video. Yeah. It's too much. It's too much. Well, speaking of Apple, I was we were working out at the gym this morning. Chris was really pumping it up and I was listening to a podcast and it served me an ad for Culver's. Like I was listening to your episode of Popcast with our friends over at the New York Times. And then a targeted Wisconsin ad came up. And I was like, this is a sign. And you were talking about Culver's. We haven't been. And apparently I have to go there as well as what's the other place? The pizza place? Rocky Rococo. Rocky Rococo. I've never heard of either of these places. I usually am at least somewhat aware of the regional hits. You know what I mean? But people, because Jason's a food guy. Listeners let him know. They sound off in the comments. I posted a picture of the Eau Claire penis. The dick. That's what they called it. Like the water tower. I guess one person calls it the Eau Claire penis. This is news to all of you guys. Is that the one you guys designed? What do you mean? You designed the water tower? They did the graphic design. That's so funny because I was talking about how great the typeface is.

Oh, well, these are the boys. It's a great typeface. I posted the tower on my Instagram and everyone's like, I can't wait to hear your Culver's review. And I was like, what the fuck is that? And then boom, come on down to Culver's ad on your podcast. So knowing me, we've hung out and had one meal. What's my order there? Double Butter Burger. Double Butter Burger. Okay. I feel like you might. feel like the raw red onion might be too much, so you might take those off. Okay. Maybe. I'm just guessing. Wow. You think you can handle raw? Projecting, maybe. Raw onion too spicy? Just like, I don't know. I love when the Wisconsin white boy says you can't handle it. Bro, you're whiter than me. You can't be saying that. Okay. It's a sharp flavor. Their fries have really increased in quality in the last decade. Quality meaning spud or fry? Just everything. The product has gotten better. Across the board. I don't know what they did. Their cheese curds, I've said this kind of publicly a lot, and I'm still trying to get them to change their recipe of cheese curds. Because it's like people come to Wisconsin, they're like, oh, you're going to get cheese curds. And I love Culver's. They rep Wisconsin well with the butter burger. But the cheese curd, I think, is too bready for what I think cheese curds should be. I'm proud to say. I see my man nodding in the back. He's with you on that. I'm proud to say I've never had a cheese curd, and I don't think I ever will. Much like poutine, I'm all set. Yeah, yeah. Well, you must have had lots of poutine over the years. Never had a bite of poutine. Have you ever had like a tofu poutine, though? No. There's some things that just I can't do. And cheese curd, even the name, it just is so unappealing to me. I know it's a local delicacy. I'm sure it's delicious. Yeah, yeah. But is it like the kind of thing where the best one is at like the State Fair? There's really good ones at the Minnesota State Fair. I've strangely never been to the Wisconsin one. But Ellsworth has the best cheese curds. Ellsworth is a restaurant. It's a cheese curdery. Oh, it's a curdery. I don't know what this is. What the fuck is it called? It's a curd shack. What do you dip it in there? Yeah, how does it work? Kind of like a dill ranch or something like that. You guys fucking love dill. It's too pickle forward here in this part of the country for me. Is it because of the bitter winters that's the only way you can get vegetables in your diet is by pickling them? Yeah, probably. That's pretty much it. Actually, that's actually 100%.

And excuse my ignorance. No, no, no. And, of course, the German diaspora. What is the delivery system for the curd? Fork? Oh, hands. Oh, hands. Okay, so this is a... Your hands. What is the shape? Is it like a chicken tender? Well, there's like an Eau Claire style, this place that burned down called the Camaraderie. They just did like inch by inch cubes. But generally, Ellsworth is just like a kind of an, I don't know, it looks like a... Little kidney or something. Okay, okay. And you dip it. And it's lightly breaded. Okay. So it's a mozzarella cheese stick. Yeah, it's cheddar usually. White cheddar. But you get the squeak in your teeth. That's the difference. Yeah, I do know about the squeak. But when they're fried, you don't really get the squeak. When they're not fried, you can just raw dog those in the van. And they do squeak a little bit. I just don't think that much cheese. Loose cheese in the van is something. I don't think that's good for us. I don't think that's the best. I mean, I'm sure you've learned your limits. I'm sure you've over-cheesed in the past. I don't know if I ever have. Really? Yeah. You think the limit of cheese is still out there for you? I mean, I've gotten full. Okay, sure. I don't think I've ever over-cheesed. I could have more visible abs. yeah yeah right exactly but i feel like i go back underneath if i want cheese i need something a nacho or a i want something to if you're gonna if you're gonna cheese you're gonna make it count i would like to have more I would need a crunch to kind of complement the squeak. But that's the thing is that the cheese has got this amazing texture. I see. Oh, I see. You're there for the squeak because that means the texture is right. Precisely. Okay. It's like a good piece of sushi. No soy sauce. Of course. Of course. Okay. This has been very informative. Yeah. Honestly. Because these are questions I've thought about a lot. Because this is part of the country. The butter burger we've heard about a lot. It's just a burger with butter on the bun. Yeah. Okay. That I can handle. Yeah, yes, you can. What about as a vegetarian? Is there a veggie burger at Culver's? I mean, you do fish, right? Yeah, but I don't want to. You're not going to do the Norwegian cod filet? That's pretty solid. The fish fry is going down. I mean, yeah, the Friday night fish fry in Wisconsin is a thing. I would try to do that. But I don't know if there's – I don't know if they have a veggie patty. Can we extend our hotel a week?

Yeah, you know what? Milan, we're done. I've got to eat my way through Wisconsin. You could stop in Ellsworth on the way home to the airport tomorrow, as a matter of fact. Yeah, nothing sounds better to me than some curds right before a long flight. Well, I was wondering that because I have similar thoughts, like In-N-Out, I enjoy it, but their fries could be offering more. Other places have better fries, so you have to go to multiple locations. Have you ever done a thing where you kind of Uber Eats? the one thing from one place and the side from the other place, and hopefully they arrive at the same time while the edible's kicking in kind of thing. Yeah, that's right. On New Year's Eve this year, I had kind of a little stumble towards the end of the year, just sort of got sick, and it was like all my plans kind of fell through, and I was licking my wounds a little bit. So instead of going to St. Bart's, you said, let me get some curds. Yeah, I just stayed here by myself, and I got Mickey D's for breakfast, Culver's for lunch, Mickey D's again. For dinner. Honestly, I didn't know how twisted the answer to that question would be. You exceeded all of my expectations. Well, because, I mean, the breakfast at McDonald's. It's a different restaurant. Flap Jacks are just an Egg McMuffin. I did go Flap Jacks. I mean, I was celebrating. The Jacks are sick. I remember those from being a kid. It's strange that they're good because they aren't, but they're so awesome. But the flavor is not like a... It's not like any other jack. No, it's true. It's its own flap. It feels like its own. It's not actually a flapjack. It's a McDonald's product. The french fries aren't fried potatoes. They're McDonald's fries. With a side of mayo, please. I know you hate mayo. You're getting mayo from McDonald's? Their mayo is great. There's a lot of celebrity... Condiment products popping up. Our friend of the show, Molly Boz, has her own line of mayonnaises. I'm sure you've seen Glenn Powell's barbecue sauce. Glenn Powell has a barbecue ketchup, mustard, condiment thing going on. Molly, for April Fool's, she did a breast milk aioli.

She said she was over-pumping, and she had some extra product lying on the shelf. You know that that shit could go, though. That's the thing. All of her jokes like that, Mike? That's the sign of a good April Fool's. We're on the heels of April Fool's just a couple days ago, and I've been examining what makes a good April Fool's joke, and I feel like it has to be 50% plausible, and then it works. And I could see her doing some titty milk aioli. But what is your... Because I think you should... obviously be branching out to some more small businesses. All that is to say, if you were to get into the game... Yeah, what? Yeah. Maybe I'll just work with RT and just do a kraut line. Honestly, that feels a little... RT provisions? Yeah, yeah. That rolls off the top. I mean, I will say a kraut feels limited as far as reach goes. I'm not an expansionist, man. We're out here just trying to make something good. Compared to the beloved barbecue sauce or ketchup, kraut feels... You don't live here, man. We put kraut on shit. Sometimes I will literally play basketball out here and I'll just go inside and I'm forking the kraut in. Couldn't get it fast enough. Just straight. Forking the kraut? Yeah. You sound like me when I was a kid. I would come in from playing outside and then just guzzle milk. It's just so weird that we used to do that. I still do that. I'll quench with milk. Really? I don't do it anymore, but I miss those days. I really do. It's crazy to think about. Shoveling kraut. As like an electrolyte enhancer kind of? Have you ever poured the element powder on the craft? I don't know if you know this, RT, but it's got a lot of probiotics in there. Of course. It really helps. Yeah, we could sell. This could become like a health food store. We could, with the right packaging, design, and brand. Is it possible that Wisconsin has the best gut health? in in america there's no way no from the people i'm not talking about the guys in the room here but it doesn't look like the good the goodness you know you know when you see a guy who is really fat but in good shape like great stamina super strong but that's just the way like a bowling ball yeah yeah yeah is it possible that everyone is walking around here a little fat but their microbiome is perfectione you know we're happy in general okay

That's a, you might be onto something. But how are you happy living here? No offense. Yeah, we have a lot. Look, your house is very nice. Your compound, I love. I'd love to play basketball. I'd love to kind of walk the property with you, you know, in my wellies. Yeah. But we are in the fucking sticks. Yeah, we are. And I know this is your culture. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But. It's great. Usually people like you leave. You know, I just can't. I mean, I grew up like two miles from here. It's like it's in this kind of tricky part of the year where there's no leaves and the snow has left us. So it's like it's it is the trickiest time of the year. I'll say it's brown. It's really brown. When you say tricky, that means the work to live through. OK, the worst part of the year. But it binds us together. Thankfully, this is an audio. basis media platform no i i understand the appeal i'm all jokes aside but i just i just feel like at a certain point it's so removed but you get your kicks i have traveled around so much and everything yeah but i mean you know seeing the world on the road and that you know i have been spending more time in la and it's been good for me just from like a I've never done anything else standpoint. I'm 43 years old, and I'm finally trying some shit out. I like trying it later, though, because then you can do it right because you actually know what you like. Well, I'm rooted here now. I can't. I'll never be able to leave. You got the city on your shoulders. Yeah. You really do have the city. Is there anyone else that's been successful from Eau Claire? Oh, yeah. Tons of people. Who we got? Zach Homestead. We started the Jamf software. Oh, your boy. Oh, yeah, Jam. Of course. That's actually, I forgot about our software. All of our coders. I mean, everybody, a lot of people. We got North Studios. We got Volume 1 Magazine. Name one person more famous than you. Tim Crumry was a Cincinnati. No, no, no, no. Crumry. Crumry. No, it was, the term nose tackle for the NFL, you know, came from Tim Crumry. Okay, that's pretty good. A little pastrami, a little crowd on a nice crumb rye, like mustard. We had a poquette play for the Kansas City Royals, too, I think. Poquette? That's the name? Like in Thailand? Hank Aaron's ours. Don't do that. A poquette came and said hello at the restaurant last night. Oh.

And then who else we got? Hank Aaron played his minor league ball here. That is not. You can absolutely not claim that. That is not. There's a statue of him in everything. We're going to go ahead and deputize you as... Mr. Eau Claire. Whereas as visitors, just from what we have seen and know. Having been here for mere hours. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to comment on it at all. No, but going places like this, we talk about it a lot because when you live in New York or LA, going places like this, especially for me, like on a weekend or for a couple of days, it feels so good because not that I'm, not where I'm from is so similar, but it is in some ways. Like anywhere that's not a major city is similar. And I, like last night we went to, you can go to a city like this and stay at a hotel that's fine, go to a good dinner. Like, it's fine. You can go anywhere now. It's not, you know. You're not really ever in the sticks, I guess is what I'm saying. L.A. is just a big town. There's differences. Basically, we're talking about restaurants and options of things to do, and there's an energy that changes in a city, but everywhere is the same. Everyone's insecure. There's all sorts of diseases everywhere. Great point. I've tried diseases all over the world, and you're right. They do not go away. For you specifically, as you, Justin, when you go to L.A. and you go, to Whole Foods in Burbank and get a Harmless Harvest and get a sandwich at Wax Paper, maybe one person will be like, oh, what up, big fan. But when you go anywhere here, you're going to know at least 11 people. Well, that's the thing. I know them. I sat on Fallon's Couch this week, and it's just sort of increased. I think it's in our minds. So when I was out last night, there were just a few more people, I think, saying hi. But in general, It's been pretty chill. And the fact is, I know everyone else, too. It's not just like, ugh. But it feels like you're the star quarterback kind of energy. It does feel like that. Which is cool. I like that. He'd prefer point guard. So most people go to L.A. to get discovered, and you are able to go to L.A. To be undiscovered. Yeah, I would have been undiscovered. I think he's into something. I don't know. L.A.'s so weird because...

sometimes i mean new york too you'll see like it'll be like julia roberts right you know what i'm saying it'll be somebody fucked up kate blanchett walking her dog yeah a single person says anything yeah it's like that that that's the other difference you know and that's and that's that's a nice that's a nice part of la too that it's like sort of people are sort of somewhat used to it yeah or something out there for sure Yeah, you're not really impressing us too much. Yeah, exactly. Which sounds amazing to you. Yeah, people are always like, oh, I'm so sorry I didn't recognize you. I was like, you have no idea. That's the fucking point. That's the whole point. That's why I'm here. That's why I drive a Prius. We're in that sweet spot, yeah. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot. Because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com.

Hi Talk House Network listeners, it's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston. South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready. Because Quaker's coming in hot with morning nutrition. 100% whole grain oats and a good source of fiber to fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26. I wrote down a question when I was high two days ago. Will your music suffer if you ever get married? I don't know, man. That's a great question for a lot of people. And what do you mean by my music suffer? Once the suffering is over. Oh, I see what you're saying. It's like the way we think that if Oasis stopped doing cut, the music wouldn't be good. I mean, definitely the sales will be affected. I'm talking about musically. We'll see a little bit. I'm not married or anything, but this new stuff is pretty happy. The Fable record is pretty happy. So we'll see if it falls flat on its face. Maybe I'll have to. Yeah, response is a bit tepid. How many people have been unfollowing you on social media day over day? I don't. Just like, oh, it's too happy. I can't say. This is not what I want from this guy. Yeah, yeah. That's fine. Did you, with the artwork, you really went for it with the artwork. And there's a live, or I guess not live, but a fish, a real fish is part of kind of the album and the lore of the album. Yeah.

A Sablefish. Yeah, I need some explanation. Obviously, I know it's the fucking title I can read, but it feels like bringing the real fish in, that creates problems. I mean, I was surprised we didn't get as much like... Poor fish. Yeah. Comments. We got some. At the airport, PETA was protesting our arrival. No, no, no. No, I mean, there's sable fish, but the whole thing with the salmon fish is that it's the color, and I just didn't want people to call it pink. I wanted them to call it salmon because it's a prettier concept as a color. Yeah, you're right. It is a prettier concept. It pretty much is. Yeah. That's it? We're doing a salmon raffle at the little celebration on the 12th in LA. A salmon, like a high dollar piece of salmon is... We're going to get that same, not the same exact fish that we did because we cooked him up, but we're going to get a big king salmon and raffle him off. Do you guys know what meat raffles are? Meat raffles sounds like a gay site that I went to by accident one time. I know what those two words are. Other people in LA didn't know either. Here we have gun and meat raffles where you just are at the bar and you just get a ticket and you put five bucks in and then you walk out with steaks or a gun. I like this. My dad's one of multiple shotguns and multiple racks of beef. Okay, the meat I can understand. The gun, it feels like there's some more legal paperwork involved in that, but over here, not so much. Not up there. Yeah, it's lawless up there. I got to move here. You don't even have to scratch off the serial number. You're saying to me that we could just be in a bar on a Friday night, and they're like five bucks, and they spin it. And by the time I'm drunk, I got a gun. That's great. They don't give you ammo or anything. I'll bring my own. It's fine if I know what model it is. I don't think they released that before. That's smart. That's actually very smart. And is that like a marketing tool to get more people to show up to the bar? Yes. I'd prefer that to live music, if I'm being honest. It's really fun. I mean, you just do whatever you do in a bar normally, but then every once in a while they yell at a number, and then you've got to find your number and see if you want. It's like bingo without the card. Yeah, that's really fun. So you're saying that... You're eating curds the whole time. Tossing back curds. But you're saying that it would usually be steak, but because of the album, you're doing fish. Yeah. Okay. How much is it...

A big king salmon is a lot of money. How much is the best king running? I don't know. We did it for the photo shoot, so I didn't get that bill, but I'm guessing it's $180 probably. So in Seattle, where they get the big crazy salmon over there, it'll come down to the fish king in Glendale, where I live, and the best of the best is $[redacted address] more than I'm guessing. Could I taste the difference? You? Hey. God damn it. Perhaps. It depends. I mean, I know you like your salmon medium well, so a lot of the nuance is going to be cooked out. I think that when salmon is undercooked, it disgusts me. So you don't like sushi? I love sushi. No, he likes it raw, he likes it cooked, but he doesn't like it when it's still a little pink in the middle. Yeah, I can get that. It can have a flesh-like mouthfeel. It's just something that, yeah, and I feel like, obviously, that's the way to cook it, which I understand that, but I have to... Respect the flesh. You want it to be more like a brick. Yes, exactly. Hard as a rock. So eventually, you sing in a falsetto oftentimes. Eventually, we're talking about this on the car over here. Eventually, you lose your fastball in terms of being able to sing at a higher note. Yeah, that's right. And then some people... We're counting down the days. Let's say you're in a band like Third Eye Blind or something like that, where you do a lot of those notes, you get a little older, you get a little grizzled, and you're not able to do it anymore. will you still do the tiny desk giving it that up here or are you gonna you're gonna do that or are you going to lower your octaves and go down this came up because we were respectful way we were listening to third eye blind one of my favorite bands right and they'd recently done a tiny desk and it was abysmal was it and i was like you guys gotta if you if you're feeling like that you gotta cancel i don't care how long it's been planned like i don't care and he

He just couldn't do it, but he refuses to lower his register, and he does the Brian Carey shit. Everybody knows that trick. Everybody, even the passive viewer. Well, you do it. I mean, you have to do it for a reason. If you're hitting a loud certain frequency, it'll break something. I mean, you would know more than I would. I mean, I think you just change the key or just hang it up. You're like, I'm good, bro. But you don't know until... Third Eye Blind did a cover of one of our songs a couple years back. My good friend Ryan Olsen did a whole bunch of songs with them and tried to completely convince Stephen to change the name of the band to Threb. And I think he got pretty far. Threb! But Stephen really likes Ryan. Ryan really likes Stephen. But I've never got to immediately... What song did they cover? Blood Bank. Oh, okay. Yeah, I mean, I am a... life we were saying because we're a similar age so that was like popular when we were kids yeah it's like but it always is the record i use as an example of one that doesn't exist anymore i had like seven singles yeah yeah it lasted for like four years years yeah pretty impressive very very a lot of meat on those bones so much meat on but they have i mean it's it's it was kind of a one and done yeah they weren't able the second one was fine you know it just it devolved say if you run that hot just peace out or something yeah you can go to a cruise if nothing else i think we should normalize just like you don't have to go forever you don't i mean i'm not talking about third eye blind specifically i'm just like in general it's like it's okay to like walk away or like you know like to answer your question seriously it's like if i can't sing the song like i just i just won't i won't yeah yeah that's the I think that most people know that's the logical answer, but the ego will not allow that. We can't. We got too much ego out here probably. I mean, I definitely know we do. It's just like it's too insecure. It's like that's not what we need from our singers or our artists, right? It's like we need to show like strength and security, not like desperation or something. But, you know, people will make an argument for, you know, as soon as you retire.

your days are numbered like you have to kind of keep working forever you know the you know keith from stone whatever you know like all these people like once you stop me as a person ceases to exist so is that what they're afraid of is it the money or is it them just not being seen i think it depends on how much money you have I think Keith Richards or Bob Dylan, they don't need more money. They're doing it because they have to. Yeah, it's not the money thing. Or they want to. I think it's money for some people. You know, even for your dad who's an accountant. He won't stop. My mom's like, you have to stop. And he's finally like, all right, fuck it. Like, I will. I mean, I don't know. I mean, you end up, you know, people die with like tons of wealth that they just like hand down. I mean, it all makes sense. And it also makes zero sense to me to sort of like. I don't know. Retirement terrifies me. I don't want to retire because that sounds boring. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, you know, it just sounds, but I wouldn't announce it either or if I was, you know. But also none of us are really working. Yeah, we're not in the salt mines. We're doing something that we want to be doing. We're lucky enough to be able to do that. Yeah. I just want to chit-chat. No, I mean, I do feel lucky. You want to make little songs or something? I think you don't want your heroes to cling. too hard to their identities or something or i don't you know well people in your profession tend to not age well you know like and that's something that you for you to be conscious of plenty they make choices they maybe shouldn't make mostly fashion related you know what i'm saying and i think that is that's something to be conscious of moving forward i'm plenty conscious i think but i say i think you take care of yourself From what I've seen. Much better, much better than I was. You've got all the lotions and potions going on. Yeah. All the powders that I'm powdering. Yeah. All of our sponsors. Yeah, all of our sponsors are represented. And you didn't even get them for free. You bought it with your own money that you made. I do like to buy. I like to buy stuff because it's never free or, I don't know, sponsors are. We're doing a lot of sponsors on this record, actually, because we've never done it. And I was like.

Well, if I don't do this for a while or ever again. What kind of spot? Like we do, we got a tinned fish sponsor. Fish Wives. Fish Wives. Collab. Collab. Greg. We're doing like a scent with Earl of East. We're like, we're like blowing it out. I've been trying to get Kia on the phone to like sponsor the album. We want the Bon Iver Telluride. The 2025 Telluride. I was literally, that's what I've been on. Ooh, so the Eddie Bauer of Korean manufacturing. I was going to ask, what is your Eddie Bauer, what does the Bon Iver edition look like? Like what do we, it's just a Telluride that's salmon on the outside, terracotta interior. Oh, nothing. Just a little light. Okay, custom. We're not doing any sort of seat embroidery or anything. Headrest embroidery. Something to think about. Yeah, yeah. I think the wood grains will be more grainy. Yeah, more grainy. More grain in the wood. We need to get more. Shotgun handles for, like, the gear thing. Yeah, that's nice. See, now we're talking. I mean, I think it's fun to do that stuff. What happens with... It's been very fun, and I've always not done that because, I don't know, it's just, like, uncool or... sell out or something and i'm just like well we're in the industry and like it might as well have some fun with it you know and like recognize that you know all this is a product to begin with i mean i believe in the art and i were serious like i'm deep inside the the songwriting is like a personal spiritual thing right but it's been fun to just like have like a list of sponsors that we're gonna well i also think it's just like it's it's like if you're interested in that stuff why not do it like you know if you have access to do it and you're interested but is it a collaboration or a sponsor Some are. A little bit of both sometimes. I mean, I think they all, we like to say collabs, right? I don't know. Some of them are. I mean, I don't think we. So is Fish Wives like, you're going to get a dollar every can we sell. Fish Wives ain't paying. You shit. I don't know. I don't know. I don't care. You're not privy to these conversations. No, I just wanted to. I just thought it'd be cool to have a fish. Well, they're sending, by the time I get home, probably, I'll have a few tins at my home. There's a couple of tins that just made it here yesterday. We can pull them out. Okay. All right. I'll see you guys later. I've got something to look forward to after this episode. What do you put it?

You put it on a saltine? Yeah, actually, Tin Fish comes up a lot on this show. We've had a lot of older guys that seem to be aging and living well, and a lot of them are like, I just eat tinned mackerel for lunch every day with pickles and shit like that. They look good. Their skin looks good, all that shit. So how do you tin? I do Ortiz tuna and regular olive oil, not the organic because it's like my buddy was telling me. Organic olive oil can be too many different vineyards going together, so I just do the regular olive oil on two rice crackers. Best lunch. It makes me feel like I'm living on a sailboat. Does that sound romantic? No. I don't want to feel like that. He kind of looks sailboat. Yeah, you do feel boat life. I aspire to be Brad Pitt's character in Legends of the Fall when he gets long hair and goes across the shore. You don't have a boat, do you? Okay. Don't do that. No, no, no, no. But you're close to lakes. Yeah, that's why I asked. Actually, Wisconsin has 12,000 lakes and Minnesota has 10,000. Okay, relax. This guy sounds like he's on the payroll. Not that it's a competition, but numbers are numbers. It's a competition. 12,000 lakes? But that means they're differing greatly in size. Yeah, and there's no two lakes that are the same. Don't you know? Don't you know? How many of those are human-made, though? I don't know, 11? Because we could probably put a lake back here. We put one. You got one? Yeah, we put one out here. Because there's no pool, right? Yeah, it's just... In the style of Cat Williams or a little boozy, do you stock this yourself with some trout? Yeah, yeah. The trout comes in and dumps it? Yep, perch and bass, because they actually keep it clean so we can swim in there. Also, in the summer, you can swim in it. Yeah, yeah. That's nice. When you swim in there, do you ever feel a little largemouth nipping at your leg or something? Yeah, he feels it, too. Yeah, well, when we play basketball, RT will jump in, and they'll graze you. There's not a lot of, you know, room. I usually, yeah, I only like that when I'm getting my pedicures, but I guess that. Oh, you do like the weird fish eating? No, I'm kidding. I've never done that, but I would. I would do that. It actually kind of sounds fun, doesn't it?

I'll do anything at this point to feel anything. So I'm not above that. Yeah. As soon as we finish this, he's going to release his psoas in your gym. Now that we should do a collab psoas releaser. You know, we've thought about having our own foam roller. That's a good idea. Our audience would want that. It's like a hat. Our host and our audience are all in some form of recovery, physical or mental. I roll every day. I roll in a little ball. I got it all. I'm a Hyperice sponsor. What about the Normatec legs? Have you gotten there yet? What? The legs. They look like these big giant kind of thigh-high snow boots. And you pump them up and then they squeeze you or something? It's an electric. It's like a motor. It's like a massage chair that wraps around each leg. It's compression. It gets really tight and then loose, then tight and loose. Kind of like getting your blood pressure tested or something. Yeah, exactly. And it starts at the bottom and works its way up. Are you sponsored by them? We're working on it. free pair of normatex and they are i would say after i've said this to people especially like people who really exercise a lot it's kind of unbelievable like really covid we would be i would work out or run in the morning and then play tennis in the afternoon and in between I would do the Norma Tech for 45 minutes, and it really does give you the juice. That's cool. It sounds ticklish, but I'd try it. No, no, no. It's pretty relaxing, actually. It's pretty relaxing. But you have to sit still for 45 minutes. That might be tough. I'm like one of these guys, usually. I'm trying very hard. Well, that's the point of it. It's kind of like a weighted blanket. It's like at a certain point, you have to submit. to the leg and then you just it becomes very calming maybe it'll help with my little like restless leg it might of course what do you think is there i have a question for you guys what's like the number one thing if you had to pick one thing for your like health outlook what's like the one thing you feel like you excel at or that isn't the most important for you to like maintain a good feeling for me it's probably just uh psychotic levels of dedication like i don't miss

a workout i don't miss a day like almost seven days a week yeah unless there's like a 12 hours we can get him to do that for emails we'll be cooking jason i don't respond to those emails because i don't have anything to say you know what i'm saying like when i get we get pitched to guests that i don't want i don't want to break the heart of the pr person i just want to let them keep following up yeah yeah i want them to get the hint until you're desperate enough you have to yeah it's like you know but no i think that is my That's the only thing I have going for me. For me, it's a long outdoor walk in the morning. I think it's super underrated, the walk. That's where it goes down, bro. I have to get my steps in on a treadmill. You don't like the outside? New York, it's just like what you're doing. I know his walk, it's very different. He doesn't have to step over any needles. Are you thinking about needles like you can't really keep a... thing going do you worry about the air quality i don't care about that i running outside in new york is actually amazing it's it but there's so much action that it sort of distracts you from what you're yeah yeah what you're doing yeah yeah that i really like when the weather warms up but i just i like i don't live near it like i live downtown like i'm not gonna go to central park and like right take the train to central park totally also the sauna yeah sauna are you every day uh i work out like four times a week i try to do tennis or basketball or a walk on the other days um i've been working out with my friend jeff rogers for like 15 more than 15 years shout out jeff we love you bro what's up with what's up now do you have like i saw the court outside the basketball court we know you're ahead but are there teams are there jerseys like how serious are we taking this no no no okay just whatever come as you are okay i was hoping for We're going to do some jerseys and teams at our little celebration thing on the 12th. I'm sure Nike's listening. They'll get you sorted out. I think we're going with Adidas. Oh, whatever. I knew somebody would sort you out. Yeah, we're a sponsorship kind of. I like this. You've opened the floodgates, and now it's like everything is sponsored. Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess speaking of that, we talk about this on the show sometimes with artists. Sync talk, we call it. Was there ever a time kind of pre?

the collapse of our economy and democracy when you got an offer to have one of your songs in a commercial TV show movie or whatever. Looking back now, the 2025 version where we're doing tin fish collabs, I would have taken that staples, the office max check or whatever. We didn't get a ton of offers. I have trouble remembering what we turned down. I think in the early days we maybe just turned down a lot. Because there was just going to be too many of them, and they were going to start devaluing the others. They said no to Halliburton. But we did a Bushmills campaign once. Oh, you don't think we remember the Bushmills campaign? You were on the side of a building for five years. I know. Was it that long? Well, there was one in Williamsburg where they just didn't take it. I think it's like nobody else bought it. You know what I mean? It was you, then there was the Fool's Gold record. But who was in it with you? Uh, my brother and our engineer, Brian. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And fool's gold. But there was, I think there's one other one too. My dad later, but I was just like, well, I can't say no to Bushmills is my dad's like Irish whiskey is my dad's passion. So I just like had to do it. I mean, that's cool, but it was a lot. It was the first time your dad was ever proud of you. He does have it hanging in his, I guess, but he was very happy about it. He was very happy about it. How much, when you do something like that, is it, a lifetime so like if you texted someone from bush mills now would the case show up or do they kind of cut you off after the check clears they i i'm not very good at asking for free stuff and so i haven't in a long time um because yeah oh i didn't mean you no but no specifically no but we just i i generally yeah i just go and buy bush mills oh well the brand loyalty is That's great. I mean, the best Irish whiskey is Red Breast 12. That's the best. I thought that was a video game. What are you talking about, Red Breast 12? Red Breast 12 is the best whiskey pound for pound in the world's history. I've never heard of that. Have you heard of that? No, I haven't. It's in Irish. You'll have to try it. Red, you have some here? Oh, yeah. Brush my teeth with the bullshit. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Is that like the bird, the red-breasted? Yeah, yeah. I like an Eagle Rare.

I guess that's more of a bourbon. That's American, yeah. Just in terms of whiskeys named after birds. Yeah, I wonder. Are there other ones? What's Conor McGregor's called? Like Sparrow Man? Cocaine. That's the wife beater 12. That's the wife beater 13. Our words, not yours. So speaking of your dad, we're going to hang out with him and go see Bob Dylan tonight. Just a few hours. Yeah. This is sick. So are we going to pregame with your dad with a little breast 12? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's what we'll do. This is so sick. This is sick. So you have seen Dylan once? Once or twice. I think definitely once when he played with Paul Simon in 98 at the Canterbury racetrack. Okay. But other than that, I feel like I've watched so many videos. I don't think I saw him again. Because is Dylan like top five dead or alive for you? Okay. I mean, to me, there's, you know, John Prine's like. you know and you know there's so many greats but it's hard to like be like oh somebody's better at writing songs than bob dylan there's just it's there just isn't yeah he's got the touch yeah i mean i i'm it's fascinating to me that he's playing here if i'm keeping it a stack me too um and but then as i've talked to all my dylan head friends they're kind of like Yeah. He'll play anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Like he, that's his whole thing. He's on tour forever. Yep. Never ending tour. And that sounds like your nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not, it's not my, my favorite. Although, you know, something I've observed as I think about what I'm going to do with my life when I get, when I grow up, but like he's able to, he fucks around a lot and he's able to kind of like take the essence of something as simple as like a extremely well-written song. And like it, it melts and it, you know he puts it together he can change it he's constantly changing the key or the chord structure or whatever with with my songs so much of what went into making them good decent songs was like kind of all the

accoutrement like says a lot of the textures and stuff or so yeah you got hella textures yeah a lot of bloop and all kinds of shit you don't hide behind reverb anymore though and i think that's dope it's really i'm proud of you i'm proud of you most people never climb that mountain do you think dylan's able to do that because he's reached a level of like people just want to be there to see whatever he does like no one expects him i think he was smart enough to write his songs to be interchangeable like that so he's like when i get old I'll just do it. I'll just talk it. And maybe it'll be an A minor instead of a C sharp flat. And I'm going to say however I want to say versus like if you don't sing the song in the way that they know it, people are going to be pissed off. I have to keep it a stack yet again. If I go to see Bon Iver and that shit sounds funky, there's jams, I'm out. I just don't. I think that Dylan is – You pull some McGee shit up there? Yeah, I don't want no McGee shit. None of that shit. None of that shit. You're going to get an heirloom tomato up the side of your head. I'll get it from your own farm. Yeah. But, yeah, I just – I know there's a level of it that I accept, but the Dylan thing feels like – like when I saw the Stones, and it was – Somewhat recently? like yeah in the last decade and they were amazing yeah and i'm so glad i went it was worth every penny it was awesome i did not expect that i was expecting the absolute floor and so i was very impressed that i they played songs i liked and knew i think what my expectations are for tonight are very like i feel like i'm going to like a sorcery or a lecturer more than i feel like i'm going to go to a concert I think what other people want to get out of it or just like they need to see him before he dies or some people are really into the new ways that he's doing the songs. I'm going because I watched his movie on the Delta flight over and checked out his music. Some of his songs are good. I'm mainly going after the video I saw yesterday that Jake sent me of him. There's a video of Bob Dylan online which Jake Linderman sent me. I sent it to you and you're like, I've seen this. It's a video.

of Bob Dylan playing a song and he has a small wrench in his hand and he's tapping the side of the microphone with the wrench. And I would say that... It's not on beat. It's not off beat. It's kind of its own thing. It has a lot of swing to it. It has a Mad Lib style shuffle to it. Super swung. What do you think that is? He's searching. That's the genuine thing. I don't want to give him too much gas. He's searching. He's still trying to bend it in ways. I think that is the legit reason. I think he's a true artist. give a fuck you know or whatever i think he's like he's up there hitting the mic stand with a wrench he'd be doing that with four people in the audience or 400 000 people in the audience the same exact thing yeah okay so all right he's in the rarefied air there's probably a dozen people alive who are operating on that level right now right yeah yeah because like most people cannot get away with horse shit like that bob dylan in 2025 who else we got it's bob and tate that's at the top it's just a good list um I'm trying to think if there's any rappers that can... They've got the toughest job. They cannot really do whatever they want. I would say musically that's the least experimental... They have the least amount of room to experiment in a live set. Although we went and saw 50 Cent at Crypto and it was fucking amazing. It was? Amazing. I usually don't like rap with a full band. I'd rather just hear the beat. But it worked. I guess maybe our favorite ambient artists are really allowed to... wander and take risks more than anyone else because people don't even know if they're playing it wrong you know what i mean yeah right that's how experimental it is yeah are you an ambient head uh i'm not a head but i i mean i i do listen to everything like there's some some you know any genre is going to have something that's going to poke through for me but in general that's so funny that's what we were talking about all the way over here i was like i feel like you're a guy who can find appreciation and i'm trying to get to that point because it's exhausting to hate everything yeah yeah and i think that it is paying the bills please don't don't grow i'll be the nice one but i just i just i think that there is a musically i'm more able to do it more than any other thing in the world where i'm like oh that's pretty good yeah like i like a lot of stuff that people make what about the world of edm

I got some love for some house. I was hoping you were going to say Zedd. We're not far from Chicago. Yeah, and Detroit. And Detroit, yeah. I mean, there's kind of a bit of everything. I had a great Berguine experience in Berlin. Saw some great dance music there. Yeah. Okay, let me – this just came up. We just talked about this with our friend. Our friend DJ Python was like, I hate playing there, basically, is what he said. Yeah. Did you call ahead or did you get let in on the strength of your look? Friends that own a hotel nearby got us in. You had a fixer? I was hoping you were up there and all black. Yeah, if it's good, if it has just the whatever in it. Did you wear whatever you wanted or did you... I did not peacock. It was more just to go there and just... Did you wear orange? No. What's that? Does that signify something? There's an unspoken rule that all black is what you do there. That's the Berlin dress code in general. If you could do a tank or something sleeveless would be nice. I would actually love to dress you for Bergheim. If we could arrange that. We could partner with Essence. Was there ever a time when you worked with a stylist? I've worked with a couple times, and I just don't feel comfortable. It's not like I have a deep fashion sense, but I know how to feel comfortable. Was it like a Grammys thing where it was suit-related? I always just got my own suits. I mess with this guy, Todd Snyder. He's awesome in New York. I feel like there's only been a couple times where somebody's like, you're going to wear this. I think probably once, and it was over. I was like, nobody's ever going to do that to me again. I can't have you being like... All right, Justin, now can you like, it's like, I can't. I just actually can't. Can you please put on the whatever, you know. Just to humor us, put on this really ugly shirt. Just to humor us is like.

code for we're going to use it no matter what. You've been doing a lot for this album. Lots more than I've ever done. And that's just because you feel good. Is it because you feel guilty for not going on tour? You're like, I'm going to do as many podcasts as possible. I'll talk all you want. I'm going to play a damn song. I'll sit on the couch with Seth Meyers, but I ain't playing nothing. Well, it's true. It's true. I feel so good that I'm not going out on the road. I mean, I really like from the basement of my heart, like deeply miss. my family that I would go on the road with. But I don't miss what I was doing up there. um, very much. And it just wasn't fresh. It wasn't a way to, to keep going and shit. So right now I feel so incredibly calm that I can just be sitting here and enjoying the process of putting out a record. Cause I don't feel like I've enjoyed it starting to get to the point now where the record comes out next week. I'll be like, all right, I can stop talking about this now and kind of, uh, figure out what's next. Maybe figure out if I'm going to figure out a play or start making more records or whatever. We have Broadway aspirations. What's that? We have Broadway aspirations. Oh, well there, there's some like, concepts of some plays and maybe there's like that's a world to maybe yeah get into is doing some music like that but i don't know everything's like completely up in the air and that's i think why i feel calm like the possibilities are endless right now versus like if i was putting out a record and then two years of touring it's like there are no possibilities there's the possibility of doing one thing extremely well with people you love for two years and losing your heart mind and soul in the process so i'm glad i'm not doing that You've had enough pounds of flesh taken out of you. I think it's very powerful, though, honestly, to be like, look, I'm going to give you the record. You're going to love it. What about Bon Ivera DJ set? Dip the toe back in. I've done a couple. I enjoy it. I feel like I've fell off discovering new music. I don't want to call you out, but I was a little shocked that you didn't have a CDJ set up in the studio. Knowing that Jason was coming, I thought maybe... I mean, we sent the writer. Yeah, I don't know.

There's no Mountain Valley water and there's no fucking CDJs. My DJ style is just iTunes with just like a magical next button. That's my DJ style. I'm proud of it. I think it can work. I think it can work for you. Yeah, I think it can work for you. I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, get a little couple caps and a stem and suddenly we're Frankie Knuckles, baby. And next one. Yeah, you start Mary J. Blige. Gesticulating when you push that play button. A powerful transition, man. Yeah, but I do think it's powerful to be like, I don't want to do that. I just think that most artists, even established, the pressure is just too great and they don't feel comfortable saying no. I just think, why would we want the people that get to not work for a living, why would we want to see them working? Like, that's not the point. That's not inspiring. And, like, maybe people are getting a lot out of the shows, but, like, they're going to get a lot more if I press pause or delineate and have actual juice for something. Yeah, I mean, I've seen you play live, but I've gotten more out of your song, you know, hitting play. after i got off of an airplane yeah that was weird and i'm walking through an airport terminal and then that's when the shit really hits you the best yeah and also before you know whatever 10 years ago we make the album we spend all this money and then we go on tour and that's where we make our money to live and survive and now that we're sort of in an area where that's not so easy and cut and dry and people are hoping to break even on tours i'm sure it's even more of an incentive to wait it out you know he's got four 18 wheelers he's got six buses it's overhead yeah we we interview a lot of bands of various sizes and we've the the misconception is when you're on that bigger level you know that's fine but when you're an indie band that's when it's tough and you're scraping by but we've interviewed a lot of big bands who are just like we are hoping to break even bro it's a well it's just like it's a little broken i mean

I could go on and on and on about it, but I mean, we, we're in a really bizarre position. I think Bon Iver in general is just like, we, we make money on records and we make money on the, on the tours and we've just been incredibly, I think conservative is a good word. Like we just don't, we haven't gone overboard. Um, and that's maybe another reason I was just like, I don't want to like drive anything into the ground. Like I don't want it to feel like a product, but touring, I just think. after a while i think people don't realize how tired of it they are themselves and maybe people are starting to talk about it's like do i really want to go to the terminal five tonight to see like i don't know i i can't really like put it into words i just think i don't want to go to terminal five yeah i mean people don't want to go to the movie theater to see a movie they want to watch and you know it's it's stand-up comedy is the only thing that's really selling tickets i guess i don't know why i think it's what's because it's fresh and like i think there is like you know money does sort of follow the magic sometimes and then you can magic can be squeezed out of something over a long period of time and i think live music is you know i think the festival like yeah the environment you see it it's just like yes coachella sells out every year but like are we feeling anything new is there really any bar to be set that's new performance or artistic or lights or pyro wise who can we pay enough to come back from the dead exactly to make this good exactly i'm not hating it's like if people are having fun at coachella yeah let's go it's all all great but i guess i am interested in like yeah but i could go let's fuck with the format i could go to i could go do molly in the woods on a another weekend i think i think there's going to be more spheres and things like that. I got an invite to like an immersive thing where it's like a touring sphere where like they'll take over like a convention center in a big city and then like the ceiling and the wall. So it'll be like a cube and not a sphere. But they can build. Like a curd. A big curd. It'll be a big cheese curd and Moby's DJing in that bitch for two hours. But they do it and they'll do it for like an early show and a late show like 7 to 9 and 9 to 11.

And you're like, so this is all just for the TikTok now. Yeah. I mean, I spent a lot of time writing in my notebook of just like, what do I actually want? What can we take away? What can we like kill from like all the way it's been done? How can you make it? It's not just about making it lucrative. It's about making it leaner. Who can we replace with an Ableton stem? Or what do you call them? Holographs. I'm with you on all of that. But I think there's also a world where. if you're that good you can kind of get up there and just play and that's enough oh yeah the lights and this and that like all that shit is fun but it's mostly to give your friends jobs like it's not necessary if you got the song sure yeah and i that's what i i just think about that a lot like the sphere i want to go to the sphere we talked about last night it sounds amazing but call me when bonnie rate's doing the sphere yeah it's like when adele or harry styles they do these like residency things like That makes sense, kind of. I think that's a word that gets kicked around in my head a lot. It's like, what could we do? You know, I've thought a lot about, like, what if we just, you know, got, like, a big check from, like, a philanthropist or whatever. Bezos bucks, something like that. Bezos bucks. That word seems so close to so many bad words. But you build a really beautiful circular venue in the middle of nowhere, and then you just play there for the rest of the time. I mean, you could literally build an airplane hangar in the middle of the woods and sell it out. Just do that when you wanted to and leave everything there. Which is kind of cool because 10, 15 years ago, it was like, oh, laptops and music equipment is accessible to everyone. Anyone with Fruity Loops can make the next Soulja Boy song or whatever. And then we don't need record labels anymore because we can just have your friend film it and we have a video and it's all on whatever. And we are entering an era now with live performances where we don't have to play inside of this crazy system that's such... a pain in the ass yeah just build a fucking airplane hanger it could sound better and and and the musicians could hear each other better like there's a there's you know we that's something i'm really proud of is like my squad we we might not have been the best individually musicians engineers whatever but when we came together i just felt like we were doing it the best

that anybody was doing it and we our shit sounded really good um and i that's i'm just like that is a challenge that that might be the only thing that kind of like inspires me to do anything in the future if i do you know i i think yeah i think let's get a hanger going like what if what if touring what if touring wasn't pain yeah exactly exactly it doesn't i think it's okay to work hard and to get tired but you shouldn't like i shouldn't be breaking down on stage crying from exhaustion like yeah yeah it's embarrassing it shouldn't be something that you actively do not look forward to yeah you should want to do it like bob dylan is probably not he's not like thank god i get to do the miracle of music tonight but he's probably like yep here we go yeah yeah honest days pay for an honest day's job that's right All right, Bob. Well, Justin, thanks for taking the time and inviting us over. It's been a blast. We had a delicious lunch. You made us a great cortado. I was impressed, honestly. It's good, right? If this kind of goes away, if this touring thing really fucks you. Barista's in your future. Well, and I could probably, if I was a barista, I could probably put Bon Iver on the soundtrack and just get that little bit of income. Just have your CD on the little easel. What is this? There's been a lot of Bon Iver in the coffee shop over the years. It's not a stretch. It's been one of the funniest things is going to the coffee shop and hearing Bon Iver on the thing and just the person just being like... And I'm just like, thank God they don't recognize me because this is such a sad situation. My ass would be like, eh? That happened to us. That's why Nora Jones can't go to Starbucks anymore. We heard of Them Jeans remix in a hotel lobby in Indiana one time, and he was like... he saw god it was like videos of like a dog i'm usually trying to duck out as soon as i hear something i was like is this a dim jeans drum edit he's like that's right that's right yes it is and they're like sir can you please leave yeah no more pictures sir uh all right well let's um it's time to start drinking some red breast red breast 12 red breast 12 send the bottle i'll give you the p.o box after the show thank you guys appreciate y'all good to see you

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