020. - Scott Sternberg

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... and podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Hola! What's up, bitch? Hey! What's up, man? How's it going? I'm good. You know, just another sweaty day here in Cali. I know. Are you gone off the cold brew? A little bit. A little bit. I've been... The cold brew's hitting a little harder the last couple days because I had to reinstate. My intermittent fasting. So you're saying you're using coffee as an appetite suppressant? No. Since my stomach is emptier in the daytime, I think it's hitting me harder. So I have to tweet our friends and send text messages to our friends and roast them. offline to get it out of my system before we chat with actual people who have important work to be done. Yeah, because I'm very important and if you roasted me on this podcast, we would obviously have to stop doing it. Oh, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about our guests. Oh, I see. I will gladly get really, really cranked out of my head and then just talk to you for an hour. No problemo. Fire up the Barbie. Well, I'm glad that it's another beautiful, warm day in Southern Cali. Yeah, man. The word bronze doesn't begin to describe my body, but yeah, it's cool. Bitch, first of all, I know you're not working in the yard with a shirt off. I'm going sleeveless tee. I forgot TJ loved a tank top. I've seen TJ in a tank top many, many times over the years. There is a big difference between a tank top and a t-shirt that has been cut to have the sleeves removed. I'm familiar with the difference. So then why are you calling it a tank top? Because I've also seen you in a tank top, bitch. Don't deny the truth. That's true. That is true. A tank hasn't...

It hasn't touched my body in a long time now. Okay, well, when we were on the roof of the standard downtown raving on a Saturday afternoon, you were definitely in an American Apparel tank. I've never worn an American Apparel tank top in public or not. Was it Quicksilver? I can't remember what brand it was. That would be cool. I mean, a nice legacy vintage piece from Quicksilver? Legacy vintage piece. I mean, look, I get it. If you're a Southern Cali bro, a tank top at some point is just going to have to bless your torso. It's out of your control, honestly. I was never a tank man. Trust me, any time that I ever wore a tank was only when it would be like I'm going on, like I'm doing like an outdoor activity, 100 degrees outside. I'm going hiking. I'm going, you know, going for a long bike ride or something outdoors where it's just needed. I've never done it because like I'm going to look good in this or like wait till they get a glimpse of TJ wearing. So you're saying you need to up your arm workouts is what you're trying to say. That is true. I am not in a position to where the guns, as it were, would ever need to be showed off. No, I mean, yeah, you got two string beans taped to your little Gumby body. So you got to up the weight. The kettlebells ain't working, bro. They are working, but it does take time. It does take a little bit longer. It takes more time than I was prepared for, and that's fine. I'm also, much like you, not trying to become a buff bro at all. I also know that my frame is never going to accommodate something like that. I disagree. I think if you've got a proper nutrition program in place and really put the work in, you could get some gains. We could see it.

I could get Brolic for you. We could see a shelf on that chest. You know what I'm saying? We could sit the cold brew on the chest while relaxing if you really put the work in. I'm going to be looking like a dark-skinned Blake Griffin by the end of summertime, baby. Dark-skinned Blake Griffin. Did you see those fire pictures of Blake Griffin? He was going to get a smoothie shirt off, like getting out of the car, getting out of the whip. Like, first of all, driving with a shirt off means you are shredded. Or it also means you live in Florida. Sure. But, I mean, California is the Florida of the West Coast. Yeah, to just be like, all right, I've got to run to the store and do a couple errands. And you're like, all right, I've got my wallet, I've got my keys, I've got my phone, I'm good. And then you're like, do you want to put a shirt on? And you're like, what? Why would I do that? No, I mean, but he, I mean, I think he had one in the car, you know what I'm saying, to throw on when he went into the place, like a business, because you can't, you can't, you know, no shirt, no shoes, no service, as you know, I'm sure. I mean, just think of the freedom you must feel to go drive somewhere, to go get in your car and drive, to run errands, and never feel the need to wear a shirt to do that. Your life is good. No, it's incredible. My life could never be that. I don't think I have the confidence. Even if I had the body, I don't think I have the confidence. I'm a little shy guy. That's debatable. Well, fair. It is debatable, I guess. Man, I'm just coming to my wits end with this Quora, bro. I need a sweet release. Like a massage, maybe? I mean, honestly, I just want a dumbbell, you know? I mean, because I've been going to a coffee. The famous coffee place here is open, so I've been taking my bike there every day. What? Yeah, I've been using the local version of the city bike. I told you that. So I've been just tearing up the streets. Chris, known bike hater.

I don't hate bikes. I hate people who ride them. It's not about the bike itself. The two-wheel device never did anything to me, but fixed gear culture ruined biking. That's the reality, and I think a lot of people would agree with me. Yeah. I mean, as a member of the community, or I guess ex-member, I can see where you would get that. I knew you were a lifelong bike daddy, but I didn't realize it was a fixie. Yeah, I got in the game a long time ago. I would say early 2000s, maybe like 2000, like the year 2000 probably. Very sick. Just a young Teej was very into San Francisco graffiti, bike messenger culture type of vibe. Even though I would never be a bike messenger, I just like the whole aesthetic. Well, the aesthetic is, like a lot of things, cooler than actual action. Which I hate. It happens a lot, unfortunately. But it's also dangerous, which is cool. I think it's sexy because it's dangerous. That attracts people to it. It is dangerous, and I've learned that once you get a little bit older, that danger is not as cute as it once was. uh i hate danger um because i'm a total pussy and i don't like i don't like i learned that when when i did that story about riding motorcycle like i'm just not cut out for this shit man i'm good like i'm good i'll be in a let me let me get in the fucking you know baby mama bins with with four doors and a seat seat belt i'm great but do you when you're when you're in your little little c class are you are you going fast are you driving Well, you know I like to go fast. Are you driving like a Hellcat? You know I'm driving like a Hellcat, bitch. Come on now. You already know the vibes. Okay, well, that's something. There's a lot of people who don't do that. That's true. I like to break the law in my own small ways. You ever run a red?

I might have run a red, TJ. You know what I'm saying? I might have done that. I'm not going to incriminate myself on this podcast, but I might have done that. You know what I'm saying? Somebody with the name Big CB might have done that. Clean up on aisle me. All right. So we got to call our guests. Is he our first Los Angeles guest? No. I think we did. Did we do another? I think we did another LA person. I think we did too, but I can't remember who. Sorry. I know, we're just flying through the Rolodex. So today we were talking to Scott Sternberg, known Los Angeles resident, founder of Entire World, a popular brand that you probably are familiar with, maybe even own a sweatsuit from. Before that, he was the brains behind Band of Outsiders, which is a cult. label that was kind of beloved by a lot of people, including myself, even though I couldn't wear it because I'm too big. But we're going to give Scott a call and hear what's been going on with business and his dog and just what he's doing, if he's chiefing or not. I'm glad we're going to get into chiefing. I know you are. All right, let me call him. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs.

handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code How long? Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada.

That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Hey, dudes. How you doing? Hey, dudes. How are you guys? You know, man, pretty good. Actually, I've settled into this, but I'm starting to unravel. Well said. Oh, God. Are you at home? Yeah. And have you left L.A. or have you been locked down the whole time? I haven't left. My neighborhood. I haven't gotten in my car for seven weeks. Come on. Are you serious? I'm serious. I just, you know, I think this is very natural state for me. So, yeah, I get deliveries of food. I get a lunch salad delivery that I get anyway. And I get my Blue Apron meals that I cook for dinner. And I walk around. I live in the hills. So I can walk like I live in.

essentially like a park um i'm going to the vet right after this so that'll be my first outing i'm like completely having so when you said first outing in you said seven weeks like you're being for real you haven't left i'm not shitting i mean you're the most quarantine guest we've ever had yeah you're you're you're adhering to the rules gavin newsom should come shake your hand it's not even like it's literally like i'm just this is my inner isolationist just sort of coddling himself. I'm, I'm perfectly happy. But are you, I mean, is the routine, are you like sleeping late and shit? Are you getting up early? Is it, or is it all the same? No, I mean, I'm getting, I'm not sleeping late. So my company is still alive and kicking and kind of sell. We're doing really well, but I had to let a lot of people go. So I'm doing like 10 jobs right now. Oh, so you did. So you, you let some people go. Oh yeah. We, it was, The reality is we were in the middle of a funding round and that was put on pause. And we're two years in, you know, to a direct to consumer brand that has mass luxury prices. So we'll be profitable at the end of next year, at the end of our third year. But no, we rely on outside capital. So once that got paused. So ironically, our sales started going up, but our ticking clock was more intense. So no, yeah, I had to let people go. It was brutal. I mean, were people pretty understanding, obviously? No. No, really? No. Really? No. I mean, it's just that you can't, it's personal. You know, my staff, like most people have worked for me for years. This is like a band legacy crew. yeah so it's it's like why me and not somebody else you know it's there's no there's it's it's so ugly and you know but i also have done i've been here before like i know what it's like to lose a company and how fast that can happen so i just had to jam it was pretty brutal

Well, I was going to say, I feel like you've lived it. So I guess you know what moves you have to make. Or not even necessarily what moves you have to make, but how fast you have to act when something happens. You have to. It's like, period, end of story. That's the biggest lesson in the band. Because when it comes to expense structure and stuff like that, payroll's always your biggest expense. And however long you let that go, it just completely eats away. And again, like... There's nothing I would like more than to bring these people back. But the world has been completely rocked in a way that whatever our original financial plan was that allowed for a certain expense structure and payroll, like it's completely out the window, no matter how many sweatsuits we're selling or whatever it is. So, I mean, of course, you're going to have to recalibrate everything when this comes to some sort of normalcy. But I think that, well, are you doing jobs that you're finding? uh, pleasurable or is it like a nightmare? Listen, no, I, I, it's, I, I, I like all of this. I mean, this is my little, uh, my little sandbox, you know, I, you know, the design ethos of entire world is very contained purposefully. It's very pure. It's very, uh, sort of pair back modernist sort of approach, a lot of color, uh, not a lot of pattern, not too many. You know, it's a reduced skew planning, but that's like part of the sort of austerity plan or whatever. But so I love designing. I love doing all that stuff. I started band like a one man show. You know, I can I can roll with all that. It's just it's a lot because I'm also dealing with all the financing and still trying to raise money. That's the only thing I don't like doing. I feel like those. Yeah, I mean, trotting out and. telling people how great you are and hoping they'll write you a check when you leave is not, you know, for everybody. It is soul crushing. It is for Chris though. It is. Yeah. I mean, I could, I feel like if I had anything to sell, I could do it. But unfortunately I haven't had an idea yet. You know, that's the hard part. Just stay there.

I mean, do you think that – but is that world? Because the people I know in the VC world are kind of still operating. They look at this as an opportunity, I think, more than most. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. It's just that I've never tried to spin this business for anything other than what it is. We're a consumer products company that creates a fantastic product with a lot of value that's targeted at a really – kind of vibrant and potentially huge global, uh, customer base. And with a product that within the next year will have an insane margin and all these sort of fundamentals of like an apparel business. Nobody cares about that. That's not to be like, I'm creating an operating system for sweat. suits to be made or something. And I probably could spin it that way and maybe raise some money. But I think that the value system is much more aligned with technology, things that scale really fast. VCs want to get in and out pretty fast. They want to see their money. And they're going to bet on a lot of crazy ideas, knowing that these disruptive ideas are the ones that not necessarily are going to be embraced by the market faster, but they're just easier. They just attract more money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's exciting in some ways. Do you think the – now, the sweatsuit obviously has been a part of the business since the beginning. Yeah. But was it always number one, or have you seen that happen since the virus, or was it trending that way before? Well, so – We had sweats at launch. We didn't have the full monotone sweatsuit. But once we launched that in fall of 18, which was about five months in to business, that it really took over as both the hero item and as a sort of beacon for the brand. It really encapsulates everything that this brand is about in terms of this kind of, you know, utopian, futurist, modernist uniform.

That's also like Teletubby baby. So I hope you tell the VC. This is VC gold right here, baby. They love that. They love that. But, you know, so it was it was a clear just like the market responded to it immediately. It felt very fresh. It wasn't something that was out there in the way we were contextualizing it and the colors we were doing and even just the vibe. It just wasn't there. It felt new and people really got into it. I think that certainly it's become this de facto quarantine uniform for a cross-section of fashion people and people in our echo chamber and beyond. I've seen a lot of Instagram hotties in the sweatsuit, if that's what you mean. Totally. Totally. That's exactly. That's, that's, that's another way of putting it. But yeah, so it's been, and it's just, it's been incredible because it's been just driving so much momentum and energy towards the brand that there, we've always, we've been really nice. We've experienced really nice growth since the beginning, but this is one of those bumps that, you know, you can't really plan for in terms of. being part of the conversation and really just being on the frequency, part of the cultural dialogue or whatever. Yeah. Do you find it, are you able to be creative right now or are you mostly worried about steering the ship? This is always, you know, this is the, I'm very left brain, right brain. It's how I function. I was that way in school. And it's sort of a blessing and a curse. I find the, depending on whether it's design oriented or image making or creativity around marketing, which is a little different than content and image making. Like I find the design and creativity just to be an antidote to the other stuff. It's all necessary. Like you can't jump into apparel and.

unless you're a rarefied breed of, like, Karl Lagerfeld, J.W. Anderson type, and kind of expect to just, like, make shit and have fun doing it. It's really, it's the schmatze business. It's a business. So, you know, it's, and however much I complain about the operational or finance side, it's just part of what it is. So, you know, I don't find it any harder to be creative than normal. Um, it's just very hot and my AC doesn't work upstairs. I tell you what, man, I'm so, so I'm in Montreal and Jason and I talk cause Jason's in LA. So every time he's, he's like, Oh yeah, man, just another sweltering day out here. Just, you know, and I haven't felt heat yet and it's almost may. And I'm, that's part of the reason I think my edges are fraying. I mean, grass is always greener, warmer. I feel you. It'll, it'll be okay. It'll be okay. I mean, I understand, but I mean, I don't. Or it won't. Yeah, or it won't. Or it won't. I mean, that's the reality. I don't know. I'm still reeling from the fact that you're the most quarantined person we've talked to. So are you living solo with other people? I am living with one sentient being. God, my dog. I have a huge backyard. So my backyard is where I socialize with people. So people have definitely come over. I'm not like totally, completely alone. So you do a social distance backyard barbecue hang. Yeah, we haven't barbecued yet because I live in the hills. You really can't. But, you know, you can enter through the side yard, make a loud sound. And I'll come down with the dog. And stairs are set far enough apart. It's very lovely, actually. Very idyllic. And I also have this wonderful neighborhood. I know so many of my neighbors, and my dog knows so many of their dogs. So I have this little community, and it's perfectly sufficient. And I'm on, you know, on.

the video screens with, so I don't know. I can kind of get used to this. I know. I feel like, yeah, you're too happy. I feel like this is something we need to really unpack. I'm confused. I don't think that, um, I, what do you guys use using zoom? We use Google meetup and it's, it's ridiculous. You know, the internet is, is, has slowed down for all of us. So like everybody's sort of frozen and some sort of, you know, like they look like they're, Their tongue is, you know, hanging out of their mouth type of pose during these calls. But I lost my train of thought. What were we talking about? We're talking about you using. Oh, me. Yeah. I have been down the rabbit hole many times. You caught me on an okay day. How's your drug use going? It's interesting. I started doing, good question. I've been drinking a lot of wine, a little bit of whiskey. I used to be a pretty good stoner. And I started doing TM, Transcendental Meditation, right after the new year. And my desire to smoke weed has waned. So I'm not really hitting. The ganj. Really? So you're getting your natural organic wine delivered to the house? Yep. Totally. Where are you getting it from, if you don't mind me asking? No worries. Silver Lake Wine, where I always get it from. They're lovely, supporting local. And I'm such a creature of habit. It's just one type of wine. And I don't change that. You're saying you get the same actual bottle delivered multiple times per week? I'll get a case, and it'll last for whatever, and then I'll just get another case. What's the wine? Just out of curiosity. I think it's called Arco Nova. It's a white wine. It's very light. I tend to like to consume and drink things that are near tasteless and colorless. So this is a vino verde?

It's a vino verde. It's got like a little bit of a tiny little bit of a sparkle to it. Great. So do I. So do I. So this is, and it's a little bit more of a cheaper bottle too, right? It's cheap, which is, I'm not a cheap person, but I always enjoy a bargain. So it happens to be cheap. So that's all working out. And when you're drinking in that much bulk and volume, it is good to go for a more economical choice. No doubt. I'm a wino a bit, but I'm not an onophile. A long wine list gives me a panic attack. I don't understand how anybody actually really knows what they're ordering or asking when they're doing that. I feel like people are mostly bullshitting. you know you know what you like it works it tastes good it gets you drunk why why why fuck with that totally totally and you're doing you said you're doing blue aprons yeah the blue do you have a promo code that we can shout out i do i do and this is how i started summit my friend sydney who is a fashion person from New York who moved here a couple of years ago, lives on the other side of the hill. And he gave me a free week of that, which I will share with you. Nepotism at work. What's that? Nepotism at work. How the rich get richer. And, you know, I don't even like put, this is like my, I love it because they're basically grocery shopping for me. I don't use most of the ingredients. I just sort of prep. the salmon or, you know, the tofu or whatever it is that they send in the most simple of ways. But it's like veggies and all this stuff without me having to go to the grocery store. So you were doing this pre-quarantine though? No, no. Blue Apron just started then. My lunch delivery, my vegan lunch delivery, I've been doing for two years. Whenever I'm like working like a band in here, like hardcore everyday working, I can't think about lunch. I just have to like...

have it ready to go what's the vegan deli what is it it's called thistle i hate saying that word and i would too i would too it's like it's a it's a rough word have you ever yelled at your assistant where's my fucking thistle i do not have an assistant so no first of all jason i had to lay off my assistant thank you for asking oh yeah i mean listen what i am I am not good with an assistant. I'm much better with just like a staff. And I'm not a nightmare boss. But no, it's just like salad. It's just like, again, it's like they're buying my veggies for me. I have to like force feed myself salad for lunch so I get all of those nutrients in for the day. I don't cook at all. So I understand where you're coming from. I feel like Blue Apron might actually be the ticket for me to introduce cooking into my life. It's wonderful. It's like teaching me all these prep. and, like, how to, like, massage kale and make it, like, vinaigrette and shit. It's cool. Jason is being modest, but he's basically, like, a restaurant-level home cook. Oh, shit. So he's been really doing some wild shit that I feel like is – it takes a lot of time. I feel like that's part of the appeal of cooking right now. Yeah, just time killing in general. You know, a project that could take – multiple hours or days is welcome for me. I'm enjoying the – what I always like about cooking is I actually like the prep. So the chopping and all of that stuff because you can't be on your phone and you can't really be doing anything else because you're handling knives and stuff. There's something that just is very meditative. You're working with your hands and not really your brain as much? Yeah, it's just repetitive and I don't need to look at the directions on how to chop the fucking peppers or whatever it is. I've been into the Blue Apron. What time of the day does that first vino verde sip go down the throat? Good question. I try not to have...

any sort of mind altering substance until like after six, six 30. So I can actually like, you know, cause I'm kind of lightweight and I'll fall asleep like two hours into that. So, you know, somebody, somebody will typically come over around, you know, five 36, bring out the wine then try to pace myself. What about you? I'm not, I'm probably on the same exact schedule as you, but. It has been a little harder with the daylight savings where it's still like the sun is still out at like 730 at night. So that's kind of been messing with my head. Whereas normally, you know, I would already be I'd already be a little toasted by then. Sure. But that's fine. Have you been falling asleep earlier in the day? You know, the. Not so much. I'm not a good napper and it's really, it's a shit show in my house because all the design stuff is here and everything's here. So I'm always sort of like, I can't sort of turn my brain off because there's like a board where I have to figure out how to sort something or what to do with something and I'll just sort of get into that and it's kind of like fun. But the problem is I'll like fall asleep on my couch watching some boring ass TV at like eight 30 and then wake back up at 10 30. And then I'm fucked. That'll fuck you up. That's the worst thing you can do. I was going to ask if you were, if you were, cause you know, I've, I've really tried to, to be like highbrow guy during this shit and like watch things that I need to see. But I've, I've only watched garbage, like only shit. I know. I know. Even when I'm on Criterion, which I love that streaming service, I'm watching the B-movies. There was this B-movie with Alain Delon and Charles Bronson and Shiro Mifune that's called Red Sun.

is that you know they say like this isn't a good movie but it's like part of cinematic history because these guys are in it i'm like watching the worst criterion stuff when i'm watching that scott scott you have to understand watching the worst criterion stuff is not watching too hot to handle a dating show where they're not allowed to have sex on netflix you have to understand there's levels to the shit of what what is what is considered bad i know i feel you somehow my my tolerance I do not have the bug or the gene for a certain type of reality TV. Like a Real Housewives, a dating show, Bachelor, I can't do. But I do love The Voice. So you're going to shit on all my stuff, but The Voice you ride for. The Voice is special. I don't watch any of that bullshit, but I am a big fan of The Masked Singer. Those guys can really belt it out. Ooh, I should check that out. The Masked Singer is absolutely deranged. I know what you're saying about The Voice, though. You get to see the arc of someone's life changing and real, real raw emotion and victory and defeat is all happening on a show. Exactly, and I challenge you not to cry at least once watching an episode of The Voice. They do a good job of really packaging it that way, though. I think tear-jerking is their goal more than anything else. Yes, and just Kelly Clarkson love. Have you watched Kelly Clarkson's new daytime talk show? I have not. I didn't want to ruin any love I had. Are you a Clarkson head? I respect her because of her voice. Here's why I like Kelly Clarkson. I'm not interested in her talk show. She was like mired in the cheesiest, you know, sort of ascent to fame that there could be in a way and could have just gone so many bad places. But she's so she's actually a really talented person. And she sort of usurped all that and has a, you know, a respectful music career. The Carly Rae Jepsen effect, perhaps.

Yeah, exactly. I don't think the, the only thing that's interesting about her show is that she, um, does a different cover song every day, which is like pretty impressive. Oh, with a full band. Yeah. It's like her, like the way Ellen dances, she does a cover song. I cannot deal with Ellen dancing. You know, this, this, this Ellen back, this Ellen backlash is really doing something for me. Yeah. I love it. It's interesting. You know, it's, it's tough with her. Because I think she's done a lot of good stuff with her platform over the years. And she's been an incredible role model for gay people. I came out of the closet like two weeks after she came out of the closet. And I was already going to do it, but she definitely helped. How old were you? I was 20. But the flip side is, in Hollywood, her reputation... is not very good. I mean, she's known to just be kind of a pretty acerbic, mean person. So the backlash, yeah. I mean, she got a big backlash recently because she just wasn't paying her staff and employees during this time when she has just millions and millions and millions of dollars. So many dollars, so many houses, so many dollars. Speaking of the Hollywood biz, weren't you, A little bit a part of that in your earlier days? A little bit, yeah. For sure. But I moved out here in 1997, and I wanted to make movies. I didn't totally know what that meant. But I worked at CAA, the talent agency, which is sort of like boot camp for, you know, somebody from college. Did you start in the mailroom and do the whole thing? No, no, because I didn't want to be an agent, I thought. And so I just got a job on a desk, on a talent agent's desk. And it just happened to be, we really clicked. And I had a great experience for that year. The proximity of his office to the partners of the agency, Brian Lord, Kevin Uvain, David O'Connor at the time, Richard Lovett, was such that I got to know all these guys who ran the company. And about a year and a half,

Later, after working for a screenwriter, which I didn't really love, in 99, when all the dot-com entertainment stuff was really pre-initial burst, when all that was happening, they were forming a new media, digital media department. They called it new media at the time. I remember new media as a phrase. It's so funny. And I became a new media agent. So I ended up at CAA for another three and a half years. But it wasn't really, I was Hollywood adjacent for sure, but I wasn't making movies or TV shows. It was much more about really this wild, wild west of what was TiVo at the time and what would become everything streaming, everything that we're looking at now and kind of figuring, navigating the agency's clients through that. Did you think that was going to be as shifting as it has been? I mean, yeah. It was so obvious. Even the TiVo, even understanding what just TiVo DVRs did to appointment-based entertainment and television. I mean, that was just so, it was so profound, right? What we could see, because we were meeting with every tech company that had anything to do with media, with entertainment, because they all wanted to meet with CAA. What was so evident at the time was the speed of innovation, was that it wasn't like, okay, here's DVRs and we're going to be riding on that for 20 years, like when television was invented or radio or whatever before or after that. It was so clear that it was this exponential, insane, rate of innovation so like we were just going to keep seeing more and more change and what was happening with music at the time which was really the first industry to be hit and then to really uh you know freak out from napster and then really fix itself write itself uh so it's you know so artists and labels still make a lot of money um it was clear that there was a path forward and but that everything was going to going to be disrupted

I miss appointment television. I think that that's, they're doing a good job of that right now with that, that the last dance, the documentary about the bulls. I think that that stuff now, it just lives on Twitter. Interestingly. Yeah, no, we're it's, it's sad. Culturally you, you miss something, you, you miss this sort of connection and the sense of this loosely tied community around these media events, you know, like, and, and it's a bummer, but. and I, I've seen little bits of that basketball stuff, but I'm so not a sports person that sports being one of the few appointment based things left. Like I don't even, yeah, I'm not a sports person either. I think this is only relevant to me because of culturally how big it was. And I was the right age for that to be like such a big deal, especially advertising wise, just like the Jordan Nike era was so big. Yeah. It's like hard to, to ignore, but it's, it's, I mean, It's more about him being a monster than it's about sports. That makes it more entertaining. What do you think about Quibi? You know, it's funny. One of my colleagues, Jim Toth, who was in the new media group with me, who became a really big talent agent afterwards when I sort of moved on to do my stuff, he's running some of the programming there. And it reminds me, Quibi, a lot of the type of things we were talking about 20 years ago at CAA, you know, things you would want to watch on your phone. I haven't watched any of it. I'm not particularly like to me, I'm pretty platform agnostic. Like I don't. I don't think that way about entertainment. I'm happy to watch a movie on my phone or on a big screen or whatever it is, or both, and see it both ways and get something different out of it each time. So I think if the content's good, great. I haven't checked it out. Have you watched anything? No, not at all. I mean, I have a weird thing where I sort of want it to fail for no real reason.

Which is not very nice, but, you know, who knows? I mean, it's an uphill battle. It's another monthly fee that you're asking people to pay. And, again, like, what's surprising to me about it is this idea that platform-specific content, like, I don't know. Like, there's so much to watch on my phone already. Like, I'm good. Do you watch that much? Do you use your phone that way though? Like you do, you do do that. I do it not for full entertainment necessarily, but I'm, you know, I'm such a researcher. So I'm always going down YouTube holes and, and you know, whether that's like looking for an old movie clip to see something or to get a vibe or a piece of inspiration for something I'm shooting or whatever it is, I use my phone for so much. But if I'm going to kick back and, and, dive into, you know, Homeland season eight, as I just finished, I'll be on my TV, you know? I just, I find the phone, like I like to look at stuff on my phone too, but then I have an issue of like, where do I catalog this to look at it later on the actual computer? That's the problem I have. I know that, you know, I feel like that's, it's one weird, I think about that a lot in terms of just the constant flow of ideas. that i have and the cross-platform set of inspiration and imagery and research and like there really isn't an application or a tool to sort of tile that stuff together i feel like there probably is we just don't know about it but i'm sure somebody listening to this right will sell chris or send chris a link to this solution yeah this mystery program but i do think that that is like um one of the things that i because i know a lot of people especially younger than me, that book flights on their phone. And I don't ever think to do something like that. It's funny. I made the crossover. I used to be like that. And I would then get too nervous to do that. But now, well, at least when we used to fly places, I will do that. I mean, I've done it before in a pinch, but it just feels unnatural to me. I'm the same way, Chris. Yeah, my girlfriend will use her phone to do...

everything, all flight booking, all researching, all, all of that stuff. And I got to get my lappy out for it, which means I guess that we are boomers. We're boomers. We're definitely boomers. Fucking sucks. I love that. I love aging. I relate to Gen X, even though I'm a, I'm a millennial by, by numbers, but Gen X is what I want to be. That's my fantasy. So I'm so core Gen X. No, I'm jealous. It's perfect. All the best music, all the shit I like is Gen X. Everything that I think is cool and that I relate to is Gen X. That's the only reason why you're on this show today, Scott. It has nothing to do with any of your body of work. I was wondering. He just wants to know what it was like back then, man. Yeah, so did you see Reality Bites in the theater? I actually saw Reality Bites in the theater. But I do think that it's... Did you, were you an early adopter of Instagram and stuff? Because it's, I mean, it's obviously integral to the brand and how you guys use it. And it feels very you. If you followed your work or know you, it feels very you. Did you, were you in on it early or did it take you a while to get the cadence? It wasn't late, but it wasn't early, early. Like at Band of Outsiders, we started, I couldn't quite figure out, you know, I'd been taking Polaroids for years. So we had a perfect image to fit into a square, which was the only way you could post at the time. But right away, like right at the beginning, I remember a few people around me doing it. And I was just like, I don't, there wasn't a huge audience yet. So it didn't feel like a brand platform. And personally, I'm not a self promoter. I'm really happy to promote a brand or promote my work or whatever. But like, I don't, I'm not all that comfortable, like just like. publishing my life or whatever but we did the show in 2000 uh 12 or 13 in paris called the longest show ever where we had a model in a gallery window for like three days wearing the looks over the course of three days with this whole like joseph boys manifesto of how he was going to do it and that's when we started instagram we used that as a tool to uh the behind the scenes of the whole thing

It was all very conceptual. And then from there, I got really into it for band. Did that hit hard, though, out of the gate? Did that, like, resonate? I mean, yes, sure, for however big of a medium it was. Yeah, true, true. Right? It was pretty small. And, you know, I mean, I think that what I – that was also a very conceptual idea. And I think my core cult following definitely dove right in. To some extent, what I put out there, I think, is a little bit of a slower build. I'm always trying to, in a subtle way, do something that's both completely referential and totally fresh. So those types of ideas, I think, are a little harder to hit broadly really fast. Yeah. I mean, the Polaroid thing, I noticed you posted some the other day. I mean, is there... That's something that I closely relate to you and your work in general, but is that something you plan to put in one place at some point? I was supposed to do a book at one point during band, and as the book industry sort of devolved over the years, not devolved, but just became a tougher and tougher industry, you realize that doing a book as a brand... You're paying for that book. Yeah, I was going to say it cost you money. And it was it was towards the end of band when things were just sort of crashing and burning. So that got kind of got put on put on the back burner. And, you know, whenever I think about those images and look back on them, I'm so proud of that time. And it was such a wonderful sort of ongoing project. And it was so cool. It was such a cool platform because it was it was so easy to. to sort of attract, uh, actors and musicians to do it. Everybody was down. And I was going to ask, I mean, I, I think that the range is pretty crazy and you were early on a few people, of course. Um, but I think that what, how does that come about? Is that personal relationships? Is that like friend of a friend? Like, how does it, you know, I know it's different every time, but yeah, it's sort of different time. And I think like at the beginning we shot, um,

The first people we shot were Jason Schwartzman and Michelle Williams. And Michelle, I met at a CFDA Vogue Fashion Fund competition event at Anna's apartment. She was Philip Lim's date, and she pushly walked up to me and introduced herself because she was obsessed with Boy by Band of Outsiders, my little cult menswear for women line that had just launched. And we just hit it off. I think of her as the face of that kind of in my mind. So much. I mean, she was, she was our, you know, her and Kirsten, who also I had done a video project with before that and then shot, I've shot her a bunch since. They were both my, you know, sort of mega muses. So she was, I mean, she was perfect and so cool to work with. And Jason, his cousin is Jackie Getty, who. I think she was probably working for bizarre at the time, but she's a stylist and she was in my apartment, which was our office at the time. And, uh, she brought Jason cause she was, she, she saw, I wasn't even there. And he, he wandered into my TV room and saw my DVD collection. And then just, we started emailing cause we love all the same movies. And, uh, then he did it. And then from there it, it just became. that became the calling card where sometimes it would be like Rashida and Kadada. I've known for Rashida Jones and Kadada Jones. I've known for forever. They were really easy. Josh Brolin. I was just like, I did a Western collection and he's who I envisioned and his publicist is rad. And she, you know, he's sort of down for stuff. You know, actors are great. Actors want to act like they want to work. And these were, you know, these were sort of pre Instagram. They were, they were very narrative. And I, it was more of a project and like a promotion. So no, it feels more involved and more personal. I think that's why people still talk about it. You know what I mean? But I think the range, like the Ed Ruscha one sticks out to me. Um, we chased him for a long time. So that was, that was just, you wanted to do it and I'm going to get this shit done. I mean, we just really wanted to do it. And we, I have two of my best friends, the world are in the art world and they helped.

uh, introduced me to Mary Dean who runs his studio and we just chipped away. And, you know, Ed's also a ham. He's wonderful. He did a video, a couple of videos for, for entire world. Um, when you, when you, when you get him to show up or when you, that was at his studio, when you show up there, he's, he's so happy to do it. And once you're, once you're there, it's go time, but the process can be difficult. Yeah. I mean, you really have to contextualize this for people and, and, um, sort of let it. let it be their decision as to when it's going to happen and how it's going to happen. But yeah, no, that was, that was awesome. That was a great shoot. I mean, we chased, we didn't really chase Frank Ocean, but like that took a good eight months to, to like get. What era of Frank Ocean is that? That was, okay. So that was the, that was the longest show ever collection, the collection where we launched. So 2012. So it was 2013 or 2014. So there was, It was during, it was when he was nominated for Grammys for Channel Orange because I also made his, I made his yellow suit that he performed. He did this performance at the Grammys where he was like half on video and half live. So we had to make a bunch of them. And, you know, so he was, it was post-mixtape, post-Channel Orange, pre-blonde. And he was living in Hollywood. Did you, but is that, is that, um, were you a fan? Like, did you just approach like, I want to do this? Yeah, I was, I was a huge fan and I, we got in touch. I, with his manager, uh, at the time, the Clancy's who managed all the odd future crew, um, Tyler and everybody. And, you know, I mean, this was so in Frank's zone. Like he. He loves Wes Anderson. He loved Band of Outs. He loved all that stuff. I was going to say, I think some people are also so familiar with the brand and fans of it already. Yeah, so it was just sort of a matter of finding the right time and the right moment. It's one of those shoots that you don't really know what's going to happen until it starts happening. Yeah, of course. That was a fun day.

Did, and Polaroid, is that something you've just always liked as like an artist? Like, do you like that medium? I study, no. I mean, yes, sure. But what happened was I studied photography in college. I was an economics major, but I spent a lot of time with the photo geeks and had a lot of photo credits. And so I understood a lot about art history and history of photography and composition. and film and light and all that stuff. And when bands, and I, you know, sort of played around with that through the years while at CAA or otherwise. When bands started and I needed to do a lookbook or something, I needed to create imagery, I just went for a Polaroid because it was pragmatic. It was a way that I could do shoots. This was pre-celebrity. I was shooting. It was just men's and I was shooting a couple of guys that I met around here, young actors or whatever. And it was just easy. I didn't have to light it. I could use, you know, I used a vintage, like a early 80s Polaroid that had a very strong fill flash and that had autofocus and I could play a little bit with the aperture. So I can play a little bit with different light situations and it just, you could, and you could buy the film at Rite Aid. And it wasn't cheap, but it was way cheaper than having a crew and lighting stuff. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I could just be rogue and go anywhere with it. And then when I started shooting people with a higher profile, it's such an unassuming camera and medium. And we could just in real time edit the images. So anybody getting their photograph taken. published somewhere, like you really are mostly concerned of like the bad shots and anything that was bad. It's like, here, you just take it. You can trust that I'm never going to do anything with this. Yeah, that is, that's the ultimate, that's the ultimate trust. That's true. There's no film. That's, that's it. So yeah, it just be, it was a sort of a invention is the necessity is the mother of invention sort of thing. And it just worked. And the, and now I feel like it's, it's more video obviously. And is that just something that,

that you feel like fits our world better now, or is that also more attractive to you just as a person? It's both. You know, when I was conceiving of entire world, which I had more time to do than band band sort of was a, was a full idea at the beginning, but it also then found itself over time as it became more than just shirts and ties and, and the Polaroids and all that stuff with entire world. I knew that I was going to raise a little money and I was going to launch this, this full vision of a brand. uh, through product and imagery and, and retail platform and all that stuff. So I, I did make a conscious decision that I wanted the, the content that came out of the brand that wasn't like the e-commerce sort of like clear imagery that helps you buy the stuff that I wanted to shoot video. And it was, it was just, it just instinctually felt creatively where I'm creatively where I wanted to be. And it felt like I could create something new that way that, was more engaging and just different than everything else out there. And, you know, I think that I'm still, I still sort of like miss photography. And I think that we'll integrate more of our own photography into entire world. But I also think that Instagram, which is for better or worse, the primary or only platform right now that we, through which we reach people other than our e-commerce platforms. And there's something about this. What's that? And Raya. And Tinder and Raya. I think that that's like somehow the images that people send us feel like enough. And we repurpose those and it's part of the brand as well. That whole thing that you guys do, which is, I think, obviously clever and extremely cost effective. It also, I think, makes people feel like they're part of the brand. It's special. It feels good. I'd love to hear that. And they are, honestly. it's like, we need that, you know, like that's, it's the only, like we're, we're trying to, you know, earnestly create a community. And I said it from day one, like this has to, this is democratic in so many ways. It has to be not by concept only, but like by doing and, and being so. Speaking of that.

What are some ways that you guys are using, you know, we can't do any actual photo shoots now. You can't really shoot any e-commerce stuff or editorial stuff. Have you and other, you know, heads of captains of industry, other designers discussed ways that you can create your content in the quarantine? It's tough. I mean, I haven't talked to anybody else. I think. We had luckily shot a lot. We front-loaded a lot of stuff. And some of our stuff is just sort of stuck. We're not releasing it until July 4th anyway because it's such a weird time and we don't want to bring it into the country and pay the duties and do all that stuff. So hopefully we'll have a window to create some imagery in June. But we've really relied on everybody else taking images and posting them. And that's... gone from i don't know 15 of the content to 30 of the content but it feels more vital than ever and uh you know we're always digging into the the inspo feels and like the old film stuff and little clips and stuff like that um but in terms of creating new imagery it's it's it's difficult i think where where where i've struggled in terms of like photo shoots for this brand and all always throughout fashion is like whatever it is even outside of this quarantine like a photo shoot with a bunch of models it's so hard for it not to feel like a contrived photo shoot with a bunch of models and so when we're ideating for like imagery ideas for this it's like we do come up against the wall of how does this not feel contrived so we always just go back to these images that people are already taking of our stuff and posting that aren't commissioned and just asking them if we can repost. So do you think moving forward, once we're done with all this, that will sort of forever alter the way that you guys create editorial content? I mean, I think we're going to continue along our path. We've always embraced that. We're just getting way more incoming images than ever. So we're posting them and hopefully they'll keep coming because it's cool.

I think we'll go back to video and that type of stuff, and we always have to shoot the stuff for the shopping experience, which is its own bucket and super important. I'm always anxious to find new ways to tell stories and think of new stories to tell and all that stuff. I am somewhat anxious to take my own photos again. However much I love directing videos, it's sort of more fun. You get to say action and shit. You love saying action. Action. It's fun. I mean, well, I do think, though, that community building aspect is, like you said, I can tell it's something you set out to do. But I also, I think when we first met, I was like, how did you? what's up with this bonkers ass website you created? Cause like I, I love the website and I remember all of my like real design, like tech bros being like, yo, what the fuck is this? This is crazy. Blah, blah, blah. And, and then I would explain to them who you are and what the brand was. And they were like, Oh, this is so amazing. But did you have resistance from, from anyone? Or were you like, this is what we're fucking doing. Sorry. You know, it's interesting. I, I, I had, we worked with an amazing, design firm on that. I had really, I knew what I wanted the website to be. I knew that I wanted to have a, you know, like this sort of collage type of feel. It was so important that every touch point with the brand felt like a little left field, like a little bit like a futurist and also like kind of back. ass backwards or whatever in a way. And a little bit analog and a lot digital and sort of this tension between that stuff. And listen, I got a lot of pushback from even investors at the beginning. Like, what the fuck is this? That's what I mean. That's exactly what I mean. But the reality is minus some bugs that we're honestly still working through because you're always working through that stuff. And we did a 1.2 of it, which worked through a lot of it.

Our conversion is above industry average and average and always has been. And our, you know, whatever the session time, whatever the fuck that that data points called, like people are it's people are on the site for quite some time. So it's it's doing its job. I think that, you know, like any brand has to think about, like, as we want to scale and reach more people, we need to just balance out. like the weirdness with the accessibility, but it's pretty intuitive, you know, like, and I think that there's something to, uh, challenging somebody for a second. Um, I think people appreciate that. I think, well, I think that's refreshing because what I think that's most people design a website, like for dumb dumbs, like let's make this as simple as possible so we can make as much money as possible in the shortest amount of time. And there's something to be said for that, too. There's no doubt. There's no doubt. And I think that I get both sides of it. I think that I'm creatively interested in a lot more than that. And from a brand business perspective, I think the long game, we're so much better off when we're driven by idiosyncrasy and a unique... specific, uncompromising point of view. The brands that I love and sort of look to as beacons all were founded that way and have sort of been that way, you know, through their trajectory to become big global brands. So it just takes a level of steadfastness. What do you think? I mean, I know the pop-up in LA, it went well, right? Yeah. Yeah. That was an amazing thing. Like we did not, we basically did not pay for that space. So it didn't really have to do much, but it was a great, uh, it was a great like three week. But I just, I think that people are, you know, um, interested if there were to be a store, I just think you've created such a world. Are you interested in a store or are you like, I don't need to do that? It's a good question. It's a tough one. I, it's so hard cause I do. I, I did grow, I grew up.

in this industry through band through a different era already of of like this that's a milestone that you open a store something you do uh and it's a big step and it shows people that you've you've made it or whatever and it's an important touch point and experience uh for your consumer and all that stuff i still believe it can be pretty impactful i think this is really throwing that for a loop there's no question and it's going to be a couple years or maybe a year before people start to feel really comfortable just being that close to each other. But let's say post all of that. Sure, I'm definitely interested in that. But I do think we get a lot done online and we do it pretty efficiently. So if we're going to do a store and it's really, it has to be. pretty additive in terms of what type of product you can get there, what that experience is there. You know, it really has to check a lot of boxes. And, you know, financially, it's really expensive. And I always think, oh, the real estate market's going to right itself. But it's insane. Like, you know, Chris, we were talking about doing that pop-up in New York. That was crazy. Ever. And it was like, could not, it was for Howard's fucking Howard street. This guy wanted so much money. And like, I just couldn't make sense of it. Like however much I wanted to be there and I wanted to be there for the customer who wanted it. And for all those other girls lined up outside of reformation and, and tourists lined up outside of opening ceremony and, and foodies lined up outside of the smile. It was like no fucking way we were going to spend all that money just to do this cute little store for a couple months. So it's really got to – something's got to give there for that to make sense. I think that – oh, I agree with you 100%. I mean that shit's totally fucked. We've had – I've had those conversations many times. I think though specifically people would want that from you only because of kind of –

Again, like you've created this whole world. And of course, online, that's something, but offline is a different thing. And the one-two punch of both, I think would be really impactful, specifically from you guys. But I also recognize it as a small brand. It's financially not the most responsible thing to do. It's crazy. Like I looked at that store that, is it Bodie? Is that how you pronounce it? Yeah, yeah. That's the most beautiful store I've been in in years. It's so gorgeous. It photographs really well, too. Did you see her apartment? No. Yeah, it's on Architectural Digest last week. It's crazy. Oh, cool. I mean, it's really just gorgeous. And I have to say, I haven't been back to New York, but the images of those stores made me want to go there, made me want to learn more about her, learn more about the brand. And knowing how sort of individualized and customized that product already is, like, you know, that got me excited about what a retail physical destination could be. That's interesting you brought that up because that's the first time I've been in a store where I was like, nothing smells like this, nothing looks like this, nothing feels like this. And it is very powerful. It is very powerful. It makes me want to spend $800 on a shirt I'll wear three times, you know? Chris, it sounds like you're describing pussy. yeah no it does sound like that i know but i do think it's just like it's crazy what she's been able to do with that but i think if you stay the course you could do that you know and if you if you're just like i'm only going to do this one thing and it's going to be my way um you know it can work for some people well you know i i think that that's for that type of brand also listen our cost structure and our margin structure is completely different we have to you know we get a really good margin on our hero stuff for sure. But we make our average unit retail is just way lower than that. So we have to sell a lot of units, which means we have to get a lot of customers, more customers through a store for it to financially make sense. And just the reality of what it takes to do that from a marketing perspective and from a rent perspective, being in a high trafficked area, like it just, it makes less sense. Whereas for Bodhi, that's, that is a essentially a luxury product that should have the margins.

to support that. And because the price point is so high, like I'm assuming the store is not that big. It could make sense. It should make sense. No, I mean, it's on Hester street too. You know what I mean? It's like most people can't put a store in that area because they need foot traffic. She doesn't need foot traffic. So it's, it's a totally different game. I mean, do you miss New York at all? No, I really, I really don't. I need to rekindle my love. Here's what I miss missing New York. I miss loving New York. And there was a period of my life where I spent so much time there before a band of outsiders with my dear college friends. And of course, during band production and Brooklyn and fashion weeks and all that stuff. And I really did have a good run, but it's just, just took a turn at some point. And I, I'm sure a lot of this is, is battle scars from, from having that store for a second at band of outsiders and all the stress of being there and kind of closing the company and dealing with all that. But the city just took a different patina to me and it just became like, kind of like poop and To be fair, it's always been that, but I think it's very easy to not see that if you're enjoying it. When you're not enjoying it, those are the only things you see. Yes. But bottom line, LA better is what we're saying. I've lived here for over 20 years. It is so in my... I grew up in Ohio, but there's something so... that just tied me, ties me to the city and the mythology of the city. And I sound like a little bit like a Jewish New Yorker, but I'm, I'm really an Angeleno at heart. I'm an outdoor guy and, and all that. What about, what about Orange County? You ever get down there? I never get to the OC. Okay, fair, fair. I do. I have to say, I love New Yorkers though. I love the,

Well, we're a better people. The weather is just terrible. I mean, let's be real. I mean, you know, it's two different things. But, I mean, I also love L.A. more than most people in New York, and for some reason I can't live there. It just seems too boring for me right now. There's something very quiet about L.A. I need it, though. I couldn't function otherwise. I mean, I think it's a better place to run a business like yours. I think it's a more realistic place to operate. In some ways, there's a lot more space. It's always been incredibly hard for me to build a team here, though. No talent. Talent, design, CEO, talent, that whole type of thing. It's really not about that. We don't care much for that type of job, work. Those things are not very cool. How do you spell work, bro? I'm going to the beach again. God help me. Well, Scott. Oh, go ahead. Thank you for joining us, bro. Dudes, happy to do it. Bro, if you need to go to Orange County, Jason is from there and is a great tour guide. I highly recommend it. There's an amazing Noguchi sculpture garden across from South Coast Plaza that I feel like you might like. And there's some great protests going on right now, if you want. I can tell you what intersections they're at. Terrific. You seem like a front, you seem like a front lines guy to us, you know? Yeah. That's my vibe. Uh, where can, where can people find you, uh, on the internet? Uh, the entire world.com. Got it. Okay. On the Instagram, we're at entire world. And you don't have a personal Instagram. Do you? I do. It's at Scott dot Sternberg. I don't like do much with it other than like, post sunsets and like pictures of my dog but great so you and you and my mom have the same account great yeah that's great i love that's my favorite favorite kind of content thanks thanks again scott and and um have fun at the vet i can't wait for you to get out get the car and really see see los angeles again for the first time panic attack thank you guys bye we'll talk soon later