624 - Jenny Lewis

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Chris Black coming to you live from the Windy City, second city. Once again, Chicago, Illinois. What's up, Jason? What's up, Jason? What's up, Jason? Wow. So you're on set right now? Is that what's going on? Set life? I have my feet kicked up on Chris Storer's desk here in the production office. I've got calendars all around me. I've got, you know, scribbled notes. But I'm, of course. Not looking at any of that. I'm concentrating on this podcast with you, Jason. Okay, so you're taking your DP hat off and you're putting on your P hat is what you're saying. Yeah, I had to remove the EP. I took the E, Jason, and I left the P. You know what I mean? Just to clarify, I said DP, not EP, but either work. I know that you're kind of a shutterbug, so I was going. director of photography it also has a sort of a double entendre for some of our gay listeners or just you know for some of our adam 22 listeners i should say yeah well both you know sometimes those can be the same but yeah i'm here uh in chicago um yet again but but this time you know i'm really hands-on here you know getting it done really make giving notes you know what i mean can i run lines really quick with you i just i think you have like a really fresh perspective

Just watching some stuff back with the guys. You know what I mean? It's Cooper and Josh just pulling up. You know what's really interesting, though, which I didn't realize, and I'm sure a lot of people don't realize this, but basically when you're working on a show like this, you have access to see. You basically can see what the camera is seeing at all times on your phone or your laptop. So like you can sit in any office on the campus and watch exactly what they're watching in Video Village. So you said it's no longer a Video Village. It's a video nation. It's a video nation. I mean, I think it's better to be in Video Village because you get to wear little headphones and it feels like a community building exercise. Yeah. So this is a little bit of the destruction of the work from home, work from office kind of thing. This is as soon as COVID came around, Video Village. Yeah. I could do Video Village while I'm. walking the kids in the park or something like that exactly it ain't the same it ain't the same but if marty was still alive he'd be rolling in his grave i had no idea i had no idea that you could do that it's cool it's a it's a nice little you know because then you can tell when it's time for lunch you know you know you know when the breaks are if the schedule's off i'm learning a lot about hollywood jason and also like it's sort of like um you know like when when the internet first had like live web streams and you would have like the panda cam at the zoo it's kind of like that but like for like stores mom you know you can you know if she's bored i mean like just you know if you don't if you don't want to watch the news just watch this you can just tune in and no no mom that's no mom that's lionel he's the pastry chef he's working on something and it just just stick with it okay it's it's you know you know pastry's tough mom sometimes the flour it's a long story mom i told you cannot say cut in the middle of a cut i should not have given you your microphone privileges you cannot yell cut so um Speaking of production and the biz, a lot of you remarked in my comments about how good Chris Black's voice sounded on our last episode when we were talking about Hubies and Diddlies. And a lot of people were like, did Chris get a new microphone? He sounds amazing. He did not get a new microphone. He just got a... It's the room.

not the microphone, a small room, a small, a small room, a phone booth at, at two [redacted address]. This office I'm in now is a little more cavernous, but there is multiple pieces of furniture. Um, so, so hopefully, hopefully that helps. But yeah, um, if you care about the quality of my voice or how it sounds, um, I would say get a life. I would say, I mean, I just, no, no, no. I just, at least, at least Al Wilmot said I gave him a chub. That's all that really matters. Well, that's the other thing is because, cause you're, you're in, This is why I love audio, Chris. I'm so glad that we have an audio maker on our podcast today. So you make a lot of audio. You've been making audio for years. Let's just get into it. She famously makes audio. Oops, I've said too much. But it's cool because because of the setting that you were in, you were in an office that was sort of... Not necessarily a place where you want to let let your full Chris Black flag fly. You know, you're in a corporate setting in an office building. Yeah. And, you know, I could not personally be tame because, you know, I'm always talking all kinds of crazy mess. You're talking you're talking crazy mess. So it made you not only like literally sort of restrict what you're saying as well as how loud you're saying it. forced your sexy big yummy voice to instead of bounce all over a barren apartment that has yet to be furnished with anything uh it allows it to just sit there and stew in its own horniness and then from from there i've got a little thing called headroom pause okay okay that's not that's not young mommy's um guest suite young miami young miami that is a yeah that is not young miami's guest suite that is A phrase for I have a lot of room to play with in the maximum volume. So you're coming in quiet, but the voice is giving oomph. And then from there, I could twist those knobs, honey. So you did me some favors. I didn't listen to the episode, but you did me some favors. I did a lot of the work, but then you kind of got over the finish line. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, much like a sushi chef. You pulled that fish out of the water.

Oh, and it's a beauty. And all you got to do is not, you know, it's my fish to ruin. You know what I mean? It's my game to lose. I see. The more you fuck with it, the worse it's going to get. No, no, I know that to be true. I know that to be true. Did you do some cooking last night, Jason? I thought I saw you were behind the decks. Behind the decks? The kitchen decks? What kind of cooking are you talking about, brother? I thought you were on the, I thought I saw, did you make some sort of dish last night or no? No, I went out to. Korean barbecue last night. Oh, okay, okay. For some reason, I thought maybe you had done some of your kind of white boy Korean barbecue at the house, but I apologize for that mistake. Pia and Davide led everything. Their life is lived out loud, so it was my fault as a passive viewer. Whereas I live life in a later ground. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But how was it? I go Houdini on my IG. How was it? It was good. It's an amazing name for a restaurant. It's called K-Team BBQ. It's from the people that brought you Parks Barbecue, which is sort of... It's a Parks Diffusion? It's a Parks Diffusion. It's quite literally a Parks Diffusion line. It's like a less kind of chef-y, serious vibe. It's a little more fun and casual, kind of straightforward Korean barbecue classics from the heyday of... when Koreatown was popping, you know, Jonathan Gold era, you know, whatever, 20 years ago when white people first started finding out about Korean barbecue. And then, of course, the Latinx community discovered the all-you-can-eat situation, and that really kind of got tricky. It was quite good. They kept giving me a lot of gifts from the kitchen, which is a phenomenon I am not used to in Korean settings. That's for sure. Usually the only gift from the kitchen I get in a Korean restaurant is a knuckle sandwich. What kind of stuff are they sending? Are you just some ice cold cervezas or something more? Cervezas? No, you know damn well they don't call beer cervezas in Korea. Oh, man. Come on. I was having fun, man. Let me have fun, bro.

No, that's good. No, they were sending out dishes that I did not order. Okay, so they sent you out the breaded octopus, and you were like, oh, I'm all set, or it was stuff that you wanted? No, no. So they had this one thing. It was haddock roe, which is a type of fish. The roe is the egg. I'm famously not a roe man. No. Roe VTJ. I'm banging the gabble. So was this one... Not guilty. Did you give this one a little taste and you liked it, you didn't like it, or did you let the others kind of... No, well, it was weird because it's like, you know, we have this Korean barbecue. It's like grilled beef and pork, and you dip it on all these sauces and kimchi and things like that. And then they also say like, and it's a condiment. It's basically like a little bowl full of... This fish roe, but it doesn't look like the regular, like, little orange balls of, like, salmon roe or trout roe that you would see. It was kind of like a – it almost looked frozen. It was like a little flesh-colored slushy thing, and it's mixed with maybe some, like, little radish or pear and some other herbs and things like that. And you kind of mix it into – it's almost like a salsa, closest thing to looking like. Okay. So maybe they do call it cerveza, asshole. So we are – we are – I'm walking that back. We are in Cerveza. We are entering the Cerveza world. Never mind. We're back into Cerveza. Cerveza is happening. Hey, bud. Pass me a Modelo. And now that ended up being sort of my favorite condiment to run my pork jowl cubes into. It was not fishy at all. It was quite good. That's nice that you pushed yourself out of your limits and you ate some, you know, row paste that really worked for you. I love to see you expanding your palate because last night in Chicago, I had to do a solo meal at Gibson's, which is like this famous steakhouse. Mm-hmm.

How many shrimp cocktails did you get? Well, that's the, so yesterday I went to Ralph Lauren for lunch. I had a shrimp cocktail and a salad with salmon. And then for dinner, I went to the Gibson's and I had a salad and a piece of fish. I, I've, I did not get the shrimp cocktail because I'd already had it at lunch. So it felt a little, it felt like a little, your cholesterol, your cholesterol. You can only eat so much cocktail. But there was a piano player, which was such a – like I was in the bar room at a little table by the window, and there's a piano player. I was saying this to Josh and Cooper earlier, but Chicago is an amazing city because I'm at this restaurant. It's bustling. It's packed, and I'm sitting next to three guys drinking martinis, and they're talking about St. Louis. Where else in the world are you going to fucking hear guys talking animated, animated about – The city of St. Louis. No shots. Shout out to St. Louis. It's a beautiful city. I love the Arch. Obviously, Jason's a St. Lunatics guy. I've heard good things. I mean, we could go on. Jeremy Kirkland represents. He lives there. But I just couldn't believe what I was hearing, and it made the meal go by quite fast, I have to say. That's exactly what I call a dope observation, and that kind of stuff is going to kill when we go on the road this summer. Much like our guest who has appeared on our Zoom, Chris, we should introduce and get it popping. Yeah. Yeah. Our guest today, you know her, Jenny Lewis, a singer, a songwriter. You might know her from Rilo Kylie, her solo work, her acting. She's done it all. So let's give her a jingle and find out what's going on. And Postal Service. Oh, yeah. Postal Service, of course. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded.

Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote, unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Are you sitting on the floor?

I am. Okay. Is this, are you just crisscross applesauce? Like, is this a Zen vibe? Are you about to give us a tour of your closet? That's what it feels like. Yes. For, for Vogue. This is Jenny's closet and this isn't a spiritual, my stance. It's, it's just a means to get away from my cockapoo who will inevitably make noise during this chat. Hold on. Cock-a-poo. I want to be clear because that sounds like a little nasty term. That's a dog, right? That is a dog. Okay. But the breed has both cock and poo. Two famously nasty words at the end of the day, right? Yes. Just smash together to create one adorable, the cutest dog in the world. But she's my dog. Okay. So what is her name? Her name is Bobby Rhubarb. Okay. Bobby Rhubarb or Barbie? Bobby. Bobby. I or Y? Why? Well, no, no, no. What's your dog's name name? Not the drag name. What's the name name? What do you mean the name name? Bobby Rhubarb. It does sound like a drag name. All that was to say Bobby Rhubarb sounds like the perfect drag name for someone. Yeah, Bobby Rhubarb came in third place on RuPaul's Drag Race this season. Could you explain the etymology of that name, perhaps, how we arrived on Bobby Rhubarb? Rhubarb's in season soon, isn't it? Rhubarb is in season, and I split my time between L.A. and Nashville. And the first pie I made during the pandemic was a strawberry rhubarb pie. And it was a huge accomplishment because I'm gluten-free, and I rolled out the gluten-free dough and made this beautiful pie. And then a friend of mine who lives in Chicago, uh, an artist called Serengeti. He's a great, uh, rapper. And we had been working on some music together. And he was like, Jay, you seem depressed. Do you want a dog? I can bring you a dog. I'm in Chicago. You're in Nashville. I can bring you a dog. And I was like, uh, okay, let me think about it. Give me 48 hours. And I called, uh, Serengeti back. And he drove down in the middle of a blizzard with, uh, Bobby rhubarb, who was eight weeks old.

Hold on, hold on. Is he a dealer? Did he have too many dogs on his hands he had to unload? What is his connection to the dog world? Well, he has a dog, a cockapoo called Tanya. Okay. So he's a low-key breeder. He's just a guy, a cool guy, a really good friend of mine with a cockapoo. He's a cool guy who happens to have a dog called Tanya who may... Who may be fertile, more fertile than another dog. And I like it when you said called Tanya and not named Tanya. You did it in the proper British way of saying things. That's true. You did. You really did. A cockapoo called Tanya. It's a dog called Tanya. So you've only had Bobby for a few years then. This isn't like a... Okay. Okay. So quarantine hit. Chris and I started a podcast. You made a pie that was gluten-free. Not easy. Much more difficult than making a podcast, that's for goddamn sure. And now we have Bobby as well. And this dog has now become a member of your family? Yes, Bobby is my child. I take her with me on the road when I can. That was my next question. Are you one of those where the band's got to put up with your dog on the bus? Well, luckily she's very sweet and small, but yes. Yes, I'm one. I'm one. But to answer your question, yes, I am. But but I found that having an animal on the road really kind of puts things in perspective. And like you can't really act out when there's like a cute little cockapoo smiling at you. So I feel like it just kind of, you know, because stuff comes up on the road. Just there's always some personal drama or some like logistical nightmare. But like none of that stuff really. It matters. Sure. So having this distraction around. And so the first tour I went on coming out of the pandemic was opening for Harry Styles in 2021 on an arena tour. I remember this. It was a little tour. It was small. You were doing small rooms. Little guy. Kind of all across the country. Just a little small room. That was a huge run. So how many of those shows did you do? Did you do the whole thing? I did the whole thing.

Oh, shit. I thought it changed every three weeks or something. You did the whole thing. Months. Because this is when he was still touring, not just doing, like, I'm going to be in L.A. and do 12 shows. It was like a normal tour. Yes, and it was kind of like the build-up to his stadium stuff in the U.K. later. So it was small for Harry and by Taylor Swift standards. But it was the biggest tour I've ever been on and probably the biggest tour I will ever be on. Let's be honest. I mean, I'm not going to top. Can I ask? I'm sure this is I'm sure he's just a fan and that's how it came together. Or is it more complicated than that? I think that's the story, honestly, which it's it's not cynical. It's not sexual. Yeah, it's I think he actually likes my music, which is shocking to me. Well, I would also be too afraid to ask. I'll be like, look, I don't want to jinx this thing. We signed the paperwork. I don't care if you hate me. This is sick as hell. Yeah, we're going. I mean, so did you have to, from a production standpoint, did you have to kind of ramp it up a little bit and really go crazy compared to what you're used to? I certainly had to up my visual game for the shows, which were massive and in the round. But Harry was very cool in that he let me use the lights. the screens, the cameras. So basically I did like tip out the crew and like, yeah, do all the work that, you know, maybe 20 people are doing on his team, but I had a very small, like 12 person abandoned crew. Um, yeah. And so I just worked with the camera people who were so cool. And I think really like rooting for me. This opener, she's got a future. I think she's going to do pretty good in the music business. You know what I mean? But also, those guys during that time, they're sitting there anyways. You'll take care. Throw them a couple 20s afterwards. They don't have a tough time filming you or hitting a couple buttons on the thingy. It's fine, right? Well, I think your off time when you're on tour is really important because you're around people constantly. It can be super annoying.

It is a sacrifice to, like, work a double shift and not have your time to eat. So I was super grateful to them. And they worked with me. And, yeah, and we put on this kind of, like, DIY show within this, like, massive arena setting. DIY arena tour? Yeah. This is pre-Harry's house. I was going to make a joke, but this is pre-Harry's house. But I think that sounds insane, kind of. I just can't imagine. I mean, were the fans? Because I find sometimes when you open for someone like that where the fans are just absolutely insane, they barely register that you're even there. You know what I mean? Because they're so focused on their person coming out. Did you experience that or were they pretty receptive to what you were doing? Well, I've done so many different kinds of shows over the years where I've headlined smaller clubs and I've opened, you know, like Rilo Kylie opened for Coldplay in 2005. Oh, sick. Yeah, yeah. So I've been humbled before the headliner, which is a different skill. It's like auditioning. It's like being a child actor all over again, where you're like, you know, really auditioning for a new audience. And Harry's audience, which I was terrified of them. I'm terrified of them as I sit here today. But they were so loving and sweet and supportive and like beyond supportive. They would light up their phones during one of my long, annoying ballads. I'm at the Wurlitzer. Like a stand-up comedian where they give you the light when it's time to wrap it up? Was it like that, or was it in support? No, it was like swaying cell phones in the distance. I don't know if they were feeling the music or being supportive. That's beautiful. That's great. I mean, that's the best case. As long as they're not whipping beers at you, you know, it's a win, right? They're not old enough to drink. I guess between Harry's crowd and the Coldplay crowd, not super rowdy and disrespectful, right? Kind folks. Yeah, it would be scarier opening for like Motorhead or something. Sure, yeah, I would agree with that. That's a perfect example. Yeah. Perfect example. Where was it? Was it a tour with Coldplay or was it just a one-off? It was a tour. Oh, shit. And we were like indie snobs at that time.

Because we kind of came out of like that. Hey, Jenny. Hey, Jenny. We all were. And, you know, with age becomes knowledge, you know. So Coldplay takes you out on an arena tour at the heyday of, you know, fix you-ish time. And you, in your mind, you're like, we're doing these kids a favor, letting them tour with us, Rilo Kiley. These guys are cute. Well, this is before this is nice because this is before Coldplay wore the weird costumes on stage when they were just like normal guys, which I find they look they have a very particular look now that is like stage clothes and they're clearly custom made and it takes me out of it a little bit. I blame the Arcade Fire for that. Wait, do you think it's because Arcade Fire did it, or is there a relationship between Arcade Fire and Coldplay that I don't know about? Well, I don't know personally, but it seems like Chris was influenced by the Arcade Fire. We're doing this very authentic kind of like, you know, art school kind of costuming. So crazy. They got that stuff from Buffalo Exchange, the guy playing the drums like Paul Revere kind of thing. And Coldplay had some Hollywood studio stylists make all that shit from scratch. It's inauthentic. What else do you blame Arcade Fire for? They certainly changed the face of indie rock. And I saw them in L.A. at Spaceland on their first tour. And being in the room, even in a small little club like that, everyone was like, oh, this band's going to be messed. You can just tell. Do you remember going to Spaceland on those Monday showcase nights when you could smoke in the back room still? Oh, yeah. And Rilo Kylie, our first show was at Spaceland. Sick. And we did a lot of those free residencies on Monday nights, which like really helped us build our L.A. Well, our very first show at Spaceland on a Monday night, opening for the Beachwood Sparks.

Dave Foley was in the crowd and liked our music so much that he offered to pay for our demo. What? He's just like, I love this, man. Here's $10,000. That's very cool. You guys rock. I feel your vibe. How much? Three? Three. Oh, okay. He likes your vibe a little less. Adjust for inflation, though, Chris. That's $10,000 nowadays. Yeah, that was like... 1998. Yeah, that's true. It was a different time. That's very cool, though. That's some nice lore. It was nice of Dave, and I was such a big Kids in the Hall fan, and he's definitely the cutest one in drag. That's very debatable. What? I don't want to argue with you, Jenny. I don't want to do this. We all have our favorites. Actually, we did a show a few months ago in San Francisco. It was like a sketch fest kind of thing, and the kids in the hall played the same venue that we played the night before. And that was kind of a milestone moment for me because the amount of times I've watched sausages as a youngster, that takes me so back. Chris, I don't think, was a kids-in-the-hall watcher, though. No, I mean, I've watched it. I've seen the, I was more of a state guy. If I, I mean, not that they're, they're comparable, but I guess it was like the same comparable. Well, no, it was like the same kind of, it was the same kind of thing, but kids in the hall came first. It might be an age thing. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm 41, so I don't, I don't know. That's it. I'm 48. Are you really? Yes, I'm 48. It's a little depressing. No, no, no, no. I'm still here. So you're the same age as Andrew Huberman. How does that make you feel? What's with this Huberman takedown? I haven't read the piece yet, but is the gist that he's like a flake? The gist is that he had six girlfriends. The gist is he's got hoes, and that's about it. Yeah, it's not. But also, you're sort of a... You're a member of the biohacking community a little bit, right? Tangentially, not on the forefront. So what are your thoughts on Hewerman pre-scandal? Well, my ex-boyfriend and the drummer of Rilo Kylie were on the biohacking shit 12 years ago, and they would attend these longevity conferences with all of these kind of – they're all controversial. All the rewilding guys, and they all get into some shit.

But it's very interesting. And we were on the bulletproof tip, like, way before it went, like, mega. We were. Way before it went mega. I was early, early on the bulletproof. Do you still bulletproof, Jenny? Do you still bulletproof? Oh, hell no. Hell no. That was not – that did not agree with me. I feel like – although I think intermittent fasting is a good thing. I don't know if you want to do it with butter in your coffee necessarily. But my – So I talked to Jason from Rilo Kylie, who's like this health. He's kind of like the indie health guru, where if you are having an issue on the road, you call Jason and you're like, Jason, I have an eye twitch. And he's like, you need to take, you know, magnesium, but this certain form of magnesium, which worked. I had an eye twitch. Totally fucking worked. So cool. I was like, I haven't read the piece, you know, about Huberman, but what's your take on him? And he's like, I think he's pretty basic. Yeah. And like, it's very palatable for the mainstream. He's like, he did, you know, he was on Rick Rubin's show and he was like talking about water and he said something like, you know, it may be bad to drink tap water. It's like, yeah, duh. But also appealing to the lowest common denominator is how you achieve the highest level of success. That's how you get rich. I mean, I think that he is. Yeah, that's exactly right, Jason. He's like the palatable version for the largest audience. But what we talked about on the last episode is that he also has the Stanford thing that I think legitimizes him in a way that Joe Rogan could never be legitimized. Totally. But I think it's very valuable information. And I think the basics are important to teach. Go out in the sun. Get your vitamin D. uh, you know, stay away from the blue light stuff. Not that I do any of this stuff. Sure. You're aware of it and you think it works. I think it's cool. Yeah. Do as I say, not as I do is what you said. No, I try to get my, my, uh, vitamin D and, and so, so I think it's, he, he's an important kind of figure to like bring some of this, uh, science that's like backed by Stanford to the mainstream. I mean, it really is an 8,000. It's an 8,000 word article. That's.

And the worst part about it is that he's got six girlfriends, by far. They kind of lead it up to that because then at the end, they're all in a group chat together. Yeah, man. It's like the plot of a rom-com. They all find out together, and then they band together. But also, it is probably very hurtful if you are dating a guy who's almost 50 and rich and millionaire and hot, and he's telling you that, You are my girlfriend and maybe we're going to get married. And then you find out there's five other versions of you. The question I have, Jenny, is how much do you like Rancid? Because, I mean, you know, Huberman's a known Rancid guy. Would that kind of sway you in his favor? Does that help things out? Well, Rancid have one amazing song. Which one? Ruby, Ruby, Ruby Soho. Ruby Soho is a great song. What a hit. What a hit. They have other songs, but that is a hit. That's a smash. And I've actually met Tim over the years, and he's a lovely. When I first met him, he had a giant mohawk, and I was terrified. And he was so nice. Yeah, it's cool when the Elmer's Glue mohawk guy is nice. It really does go against what you think is coming. But back to the Huberman thing. Just one second. Let's go back to that. Yes, yes. I feel like that totally sucks. And especially if it's not in like the new poly context, which if you're communicating the openness, which I don't know if that works for people, but it seems more straightforward. But like if you're going to date like a rich, famous guy, there are risks, you know? Do you have personal experience? You're speaking like someone with personal experience. No, I've dated people that, like, aren't rich or famous, but have, like, you know, three other girlfriends. Like, broke motherfuckers who, like, I've been in that situation, and it hurts no matter what the status, you know what I mean? Yeah, I wonder if it hurts more if the motherfucker is broke or if they're rich, because if they're broke, you know, we're not losing much. If they're rich, the...

all that could be has now been taken away from you. Either way, karma's a bitch. Swings both ways. And if you're hurting people like that, they're going to come, you know, it's just like, you got to be accountable for your actions and like, why fuck up your whole world being like a shitty dude, like lying to people. It's just, is it worth it? Is it like good for the science? Is it good for your message and helping people? Well, this is what I said. This is what I said though. This is, I think a lot of people agree with me. This isn't going to affect him really in any way. Maybe with women, but I don't think... I've unsubscribed. I've unsubscribed. It's not going to affect his bottom line, and I think that's the... Because the people that really follow him don't care about stuff like this. Well, and there's such a... There are camps now where you can go post up on the other side with the Joe Rogan. It's a safe space for toxicity. Yeah, there's a place to go, and there's a lot of money over there, too. It's not like it's broke boy over there. But I think we want to be liked. uh universally inherently if you're a public figure so i'm sure yeah i wonder how he's feeling today you know or if he's like look like it he's probably doing some breathing and kind of just working through it but i do think he probably doesn't feel great i mean you're right we all want to be liked and that's the i mean especially when you do something public facing you feel maybe misunderstood sometimes but you still want to be liked he's probably like in an infrared sauna getting his well never mind wow But you know what I mean? He's probably with some red light somewhere. Yeah, he's got a little red light somewhere. Get my dick sucked with a red light on. Why the hell not? My mind is going, he's hitting a monster truck tire with a sledgehammer to release his aggression, but you're probably more in tune with what he's actually doing to relieve his stress. Well, speaking of Harry's house, how is your house doing when we were originally going to pod with you? There was some flooding issues going on in the great rains of four weeks ago. What's the update? The update is that it indeed flooded, but it didn't get in the house. But it was very, very close. And yeah, unprecedented rains out there, coupled with some construction.

There was some blockage in the pipe dome. So we've cleared the leaves out of the tubes. A blockage in your pipe dome. Well, I'm glad to hear that because in our minds, it was like your house was kind of being washed down Laurel Canyon or something. So I'm glad that it's fine and you can go live there. Yes. But as you can see, I'm in Jenny's closet in Nashville, Tennessee right now. Yeah, why do you – okay, so Nashville, what is your reasoning here? Oh, gosh. Well, I grew up in L.A. Sure. I had never lived outside of my hometown. And at 40 – I decided to move to New York because it was something I'd always wanted to do. Okay, look, 40 is late, but you have a little money. You know what you like. It might be better in some ways than 24. Yes, I was in a position. You can afford furniture. I didn't have to hustle. I didn't have to get. Where did you live in New York? What neighborhood did you live in? I lived in the East Village in my friend Annie Clark's apartment. apartment that she had had for like 15 years. Um, St. Vincent is her band. Cause she, cause Annie, Annie had upgraded and she kept the second, the original, or this is where she lived. Uh, we freaky Friday. Oh, you just did a full, wow. I like this is a power move. I like this. She went out West and I went to New York and, uh, she had a five floor walk up in the East village and there was one mouse in there. That would only emerge when I was naked. The mouse was signed already. The mouse was like a shredder. It had his own signature guitar. His own Fender. Studio rat. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke.

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and the twang and like the whole thing, or is it a little too slow for you? No, I love it. And, and I'm lucky cause I can go back to LA and see my, my family and I have my place there, but I love getting, I love driving down to Atlanta and I love just like, what are you driving? What are you driving to Atlanta for just to get dinner? What are we doing? Well, I like to go to this swap meet. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is like, they've got all the like fake designer. So I have like, 20 pairs of fake Gucci socks from there. And everyone thinks I'm super fancy. But I'm like, no, it's actually from the swap meet. So are you a little bit of a, and I don't want to pin this on you if it's untrue. Gucci down to the socks. But are you a little bit of a hoarder? Is that, do we have storage spaces? We got homes. It seems like you're buying a lot of stuff. I am a collector of things. And then I am a purger. So I keep things very tidy. And I purge. often and so i'm constantly like donating to the goodwill to like put it back into the system so i like find cool new stuff put it back in the system all right it's a one in one out kind of vibe over there it is it's a real fly fisherman yeah kind of vibe i like that catch and release live to fight another day you so i imagine it's mostly clothes but do you do you wear things once are you an outfit repeater because i just wear the same jeans every day until i move on to a new pair you know i i get into phases with colors uh like i'll pick a color way for an album cycle and then only wear those colors during the year and a half that i'm uh out touring the record okay all right all right david bowie relax damn even when you're just like going to coffee bean and tea leaf you're like got to put on my pepto-bismol pink jumper kind of thing i like live yes that's cool it's almost like method acting in a way you're like living in the world and then you create the world on stage and so for the harry era which was

It was pink and blue, and so everything was pink and blue and very sparkly. Did you wear nudie suits? Were they pink and blue nudie suits? That was pre. Okay, I remember that. Yeah, I have a couple. They're not actual nudies. They're Fort Lonesomes, which they're these chain stitchers in Austin, Texas. Doing it more in the old school nudie style than the newer nudie stuff. But I had a rainbow marijuana. suit made because I played Willie Nelson's ranch in Luck, Texas, and I wanted to debut it for Willie. But the show got rained out, actually, and so that's a whole amazing story where I got basically punked into going on stage with Willie. Like the day before my show was supposed to happen during this three day festival, there's like this dinner and you get to like watch Willie Nelson play with his family band. It's like a very intimate thing. And this random dude comes up to me. He's like, yeah. So Willie wants you to come up and saying, roll me up and smoke me when I die with him at the show tonight. And I was like, really? I mean, I didn't hear anything from my management and like roll me up. We haven't rehearsed. I haven't ever met Willie. Meanwhile, there's so much weed everywhere that I was completely stoned out of my mind. Huge joints going around this long dinner table. Somehow this dude convinced me to go into the chapel to learn the song off of his phone. Then we're standing side stage and Willie's playing with his family band. It's the sweetest, most wholesome thing. And the guy goes, go, get up there. And I was like, okay, here we go. So I go up on stage and Willie looks at me like, who is this? The whole band is like, who is this lady? And what is she doing up here? You're like, you're like little mama with Jay-Z and Alicia Keys. Oh no, baby. So the only people on stage are the Nelson family band.

And then your ass shows up high as a Georgia pine. Were you wearing the rainbow marijuana outfit at that time or something more chill? Luckily, I had saved that for the following day because that would have been totally insane. Wait, so hold on. So what happened? So did you play with them or did you just turn around and leave immediately? Well, my mouth was so dry. My heart hit my boots. And I'm, you know, I'm a professional. I was a kid actor, and so I was just like, roll me up and smoke me. I just did it, and then they sort of looked at me like, I was like, thank you, Willie. And then I walked off stage, and that dude was laughing. Like, I got you. And so I went to the tour manager, and I was like, was I not supposed to be up there? And he's like, what happened? Did that guy? Who is this little merry prankster? a prankster and kind of known in that crew so they kicked him out of the whole the rest of the festival they like made him leave the grounds and i was so apologetic i was like oh my god i'm so sorry but damn that's really funny you got got but i i get it you get wrapped up in the moment you know it's hard to to see clearly it's an initiation kind of thing well who would do you know why wouldn't you believe that yeah yeah for sure especially in a situation like that where it's i mean you've been on many stages but it can get chaotic there's a lot of guys with you know laminates on and walkie talkies and shit you don't know who's who and you want to be down and like have an attitude of yes like if willie nelson is asking you to sing you you sing with willie nelson you know you don't chicken out you like you do it even though it's scary yeah even when it's legit you know sometimes when people ask me to do stuff my first instinct is like, no, thank you. I'm scared. Do you, do you do a lot of stuff like this? I don't. Cause I'm a little fearful about collaborating on like a big scale like that. So, but if somebody, so if you get the call and they're like, Hey, you know, like last night, Zach Bryan played in New York and fucking Springsteen came out.

and Maggie Rogers came out and they did they did a song together you would do that if somebody calls you and it's like a song you like you would do that yes I would do that and I would do that now whereas maybe 10 years ago I would have chickened out I see because okay I mean look it's unbelievable I mean especially if it's somebody you really revere in some way it's pretty nerve-wracking I'm sure well it's like with your own music when you're in a band you're putting on a little play that's like your world for an hour or an hour and a half but dipping into someone else's world and like finding your character with it you know it's just like a different yeah muscle yeah for sure yeah and you're like willie i know that you're a whole thingy but here's how i might sing this song if i were gonna do it like not as good as you let me just put my little twist on it i have some notes look i think it's off to a good start i do have some notes um you mentioned a couple times being a child actor I saw you tweet recently, sort of in and around the Nickelodeon documentary that came out recently. You don't have to say anything about it if you don't want to. I just wanted to see if you had any thoughts on that. I've seen it. It is pretty heavy. I don't think Chris has, though. Yeah, I'm not going to watch that. I just don't need that in my life. Like, I know it's bad. You know what I mean? Well, did you watch those? shows growing up like were you uh which shows which shows are featured but yes probably you're 41 so this is your i feel like you are more likely to have seen like i carly and the amanda show and i've never seen those i think i think we're a little we're more in the salute your shorts pete and pete um hey dude are you afraid of the dark kind of world we're a little bit more on that elder millennial scale And not on some of the earlier stuff. But I definitely watched all that. I love Pete and Pete. That was a great show. I mean, I feel like you were probably on Pete and Pete, weren't you? I was not. But my bandmate from Rilo Kylie was on Salute Your Shorts. Oh, yeah, yeah. I knew that. I knew that. I knew that. I knew that. He was Penske. That's right. I mean, I remember when I first heard about that. Blew my fucking mind. What seems like 20 years ago. Blew my fucking mind. Yeah. Because I grew. I mean, I watched.

I watched all those shows like religiously as a kid. Can you imagine like going to like a random basement indie rock show in like 2004 and like rolling in and there's like two people on stage, one of which was on the salute your shorts and the other was in like the wizard. Like this was something we kept pretty hidden. It was, we were embarrassed about it. So we didn't talk about it, but now I've, I understand like the, just in my own life, it's such an important. And I love talking about it because it's crazy. It's absolutely bananas leading leading back to the dock, which is devastating and so sad and brutal on so many levels. I have so much to say about that. But I will say the most shocking part, because I'm not familiar with any of those shows because I'm a little bit older. I can't believe what Dan Schneider got away with as far as like the humor on a kid's show that was like. completely disgusting. Yeah. In the doc, there's like just all of these crazy sexual references and he's like having these like 13 year olds do, you know, there's like this guy, I don't even, you know what I'm talking about? Like the, uh, holding anyway, I'm not even going to get into the innuendo, but it's so shocking. Yeah. There were, there was a lot of ones that, that were sort of like guys sort of being, With, like, white liquid stuff being squirted and poured on their face. There was a lot of stuff with Ariana Grande as a minor simulating, like, you know, sexual acts. And I think the point that somebody made that made the most sense was, like, who exactly is this for? Because all the kids watching it aren't understanding the innuendo. It's obviously for, like... creepy dudes, creepy adult dudes who understand this innuendo. It's a little kind of a pervert's nod and wink to them from one to another or something like that. And how did this happen? All the adults signed off on this. You know, all the people at corporate Nickelodeon was like, this is good. Good to go. Nobody said anything. That's the weirdest part to me. It's so weird because it's so deeply inappropriate. And although the standards have changed as far as like what we consider to be, I mean, this is like no question.

asked it's like so overt yeah this is no rules this was no rules time this was a no rules era yeah but it's i guess it kind of makes me feel old because that was the first half of my life was all like all this stuff happened all the time and it was just like lol you know someone like pulled a guy's pants down and put some weird shit in there or something like that that's just people being silly and then when you watch it now with a new set of eyes you're like jesus christ yeah it's pretty gross it's pretty pretty gross what were the rules when you were doing that was it like a pretty strict like x amount of hours per day like the thing that the stuff that still exists now as far as like if you're under a certain age you can only work so much yeah it was like uh you know an eight hour work day if you're under 18 but within that eight hours if it's during the school season you have to do three hours of schooling with a tutor who was, you know, never really knew how to kind of keep up with the assignment. So you'd bring your work from, like, I went to public school. So my teacher would begrudgingly, like, put together a packet, you know, and send me off to go to work. And then, yeah, like, sorry. There you go, Hollywood. I know you've got, like, 38 students. I know you had to pay for this construction paper with your own money, but if you could just put the packet together, that'd be great. So they would send you to the set. with this work and the tutors didn't always know you know pre-calculus or are the but are the tutors like are the tutors like a fucking 24 year old like that wants to be an actor or is it like a teacher well a teacher of some kind that maybe you know taught i don't know i don't know but yeah i mean so they don't know calculus maybe they can do like you know subject predicate and that's where their skills end well i i was always just given like a recorder like the instrument and like play this kid it was like some where i learned how to like read music but it wasn't like my algebra yeah that that looks like yeah calculus would do you less good than being able to read music at this at this a more valuable skill of course yeah but i could have been like a mathematician yeah that'd be real cool yeah that'd be great i could have been a contender yeah yeah yeah i mean you don't calculate that much nowadays i'm assuming oh i don't calculate shit

Like who does, who adds? I mean, when you're doing the tip, doing the tip, that's like the hardest part where you're like, you know, you're like, Oh gosh. Okay. Like I do it this way, which is, I, no one ever really taught me the right way to do it. But if it's like a hundred dollars, the bill, I know that you tip 20 on a hundred dollars and then you subtract if the bill is actually $60. Oh, okay. Okay. How do you figure it out when you're like calculating tip? I'm glad you asked. I just moved the decimal point. Yeah, moving the decimal point is a common one. It also depends. I mean, nowadays, with 20% tip being the standard, I just take 10% of whatever the number is and then double it. But if you've got bad service, then you take 10% of the number and write it down, and that's it. No, no. No, no. You always leave 20%. Always, no matter what. Or you leave more. This is my philosophy. You know what, Jenny? Yeah, I know why it's your philosophy, because if you don't leave 20 or more, that motherfucker goes online and is like, Jenny Lewis left me 10% at the coffee shop, and that's bad for business. Certainly that's a risk, but that's not why I do it. I feel like you do the 20%, or you look at what your friend is tipping, and then you just add $10 to make them look shady. That's nice. That's nice. Okay, well, riddle me this, Jenny Lewis. What if you get awful service, and you hate the person that served you? I think you still give them 20%, and you just like, yeah, you still give them 20% because it's a pretty nominal, you know, that job kind of, you know, I don't know how many people love, you know, waiting, being in the service industry, but it seems pretty hard. In Nashville, none of them because they all want to be fucking musicians, you know what I mean? You got to put up with a lot of bull crap, that's for sure. I just peel hundreds off till I feel good is kind of my tipping method, but. That's not for everybody. It's nice to over tip. And it's also nice to tip to have like a, you know, 20s in your pocket. And if you're, you know, just like stay in a hotel, it's like, it's pretty ball. It's like a pretty $20 isn't that much, but it can really make someone's day. No, 20. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, last night I left the tip in cash and I know that's better for the, you know what I mean? I know the waiter or waitress likes that more and it's, yeah, I would be doing it anyway. So what difference does it make?

So you, in like 20 years ago in Vegas, you're like De Niro in Casino. A guy opens a door for you. There's a 20 for you, kid. Is it like that? Yeah, 12 years old. 12 years old. Yeah. Well, speaking of Nashville and the country world, we were talking on the last episode about Beyonce's album cycle becoming quote-unquote country. And what do you think sort of the future of the country aesthetic holds for us? Not so much necessarily the genre of music, but just like pop stars and cultural icons and people sort of adopting country as an aesthetic visually. Well, even on the Harry Styles tour, there were tons of people in cowboy hats and they had yee-haw signs. Yee-haw. Have we reached the end is what I'm wondering. Maybe it's the beginning. I think Beyonce doing country is the end for some and the beginning for more. Yeah. That's what I would say. And I think it's legit. I've only heard the single, but I love that song. I think it's amazing. Well, she's got a Willie Nelson feature. Damn. I think she's doing Jolene. I don't know if Dolly does it with her or if she's just doing it. But then the odd Miley Cyrus is also on it, which feels like I don't really understand that. Miley's a proper country singer. I mean, I love Miley. Miley can fucking sing her ass off. I love Miley. I heard Diddy got cut from the album, unfortunately. I heard some of the demos was good. Oh, no. Oh, no. I heard some of the demos. You know, I don't know. Whatever. Creative differences. It was a pre-mix, but yeah, it was good. I love Miley. I think Miley's amazing. And her Grammy performance was like off the charts. Incredible. I mean, just people can't sing like that. You know what I mean? Like people just can't get up there and do it. And she kind of always does. And it always blows you away. And she was one person up there. No dancers. Just crushing, crushing. Yeah. So I'm all about Miley. I think she's raw talent. Are you dipping your toe in the Nashville waters? Are you doing some sessions? You know what I mean? You and Tyler Childers cutting some tracks? No, I have yet to do a co-write.

No co-writes? No. That's what this town is built on, Jenny. You have to co-write. I've never been. Now, come on now. I thought it was illegal to not co-write if you lived in Nashville and you played guitar. It's like jury duty in Nashville. They'll send the letters to your house if you don't do a co-write eventually. You can't evade us forever, Jenny. It's your duty. You've never in your life done a co-write? Well, actually, I did one where Ashley Simpson's dad brought me in. to write with her in LA at a studio, and that was pretty weird. What era is this? Is this Rilo Kylie era? Yeah, that's probably like 2008. Okay, so was she there, or was it just you and other musicians? She was there with her assistant. Nice. Who was on her phone and kind of like... You know, I was kind of bringing some ideas like I got this if you want to, you know, let's talk. And her assistant was kind of giving ideas about what to write music. And then there was a camera filming us the whole time, which really freaked me out, like just because they wanted to document, you know, who did what. So that was just one. the only time I've ever done that. Well, look, don't let that poison the well. I understand why it would, but, you know, this might be your, you could have a second. Yeah, if Ashley came a calling again, would you answer? Because 2008, that was sort of, we didn't know at the time, but that was sort of the tail end of her career musically, right? Yeah, probably. I don't know what she's up to. She's married to Diana Ross's son. They have two children, or they have one child, and she's got a kid with Pete Wentz from Fall Out Boy. Ah, Wentz. Wentz, who's also gone country. Did you see? No. Yes. I don't know if he released a press photo or a single where he's in a full nudie suit and cowboy hat. Jesus Christ. Okay. Well, can't win them all, I guess. Can't win them all. That's new information, and I'm going to look that up, and I hope you're right. Oh, wait. Pistol Pete. Pistol Pete. Yes, Wentz. I was thinking.

conflating whence with the um who are the the twins that are also in sort of the emo world uh and they're married married to actresses as well oh oh good charlotte yes those guys yes those guys look good charlotte my my dog's in good charlotte really Hit it out of the park. Marrying Nicole Richie and Cameron Diaz when you're good Charlotte is amazing. Also, was Ashley Simpson dating one of them as well, not to triangulate all of this? Maybe that's why I'm confusing it, but it's definitely Pete Wentz who, yeah. Yeah, that would make sense. That would make sense. That would make sense. You tweeted recently, quote, prodigies are annoying. I assume you were referring to Phineas and Billie Eilish, but did you want to have any more words on that, please? That was probably a late night. tweet yeah yeah you think yeah yeah it wasn't a 6 a.m after your bulletproof coffee no uh and i have no idea what i was referring to but usually i tweet and then delete yeah which is a really fun game because you kind of get to like gaslight your followers they're like wait did she say that oh wait no follow me follow me you can get gaslit every day it's super fun it's wise to find a healthy way to gaslight yeah yeah we need it as an outlet. So you don't recall exactly what, maybe you're watching a spelling bee on ESPN two or something like that. You know, I only consume like crime podcasts and which I listened to. So, so much of that content and like FBI conspiracy theories and like CIA stories. And so it must've been related to like one of the many. crime things that i was sort of like you know okay deeply embedded in okay have you ever thought about having a crimey ish podcast of your own conspiracy theory corner with jenny lewis that kind of vibe has anyone approached you wondering no oh i love wondering i'm a wondering plus uh member actually and so you're the one yeah i'm like tenderfoot plus as well which i just completed the up and vanished

series, which there are, like, four seasons of that, which is so awesome and, like, ongoing, you know, investigation. But also, side note, great name for a country song about, like, your man leaving you. Up and vanished. We can do that. We can spitball right now. Get out the old Martin. Let's go. Let's talk. That's when she up and vanished on me. Okay, well, we, you know, a lot of people in the podcast industry listen to us. So if you have some unique stories and ideas, this could be a great revenue stream for you. You can do a little true crime FBI Illuminati shit, bring out the Martin, do a couple songs, sign some T-shirts. We're printing money at this point. It's no problem. So you listen to a lot of podcasts. Not this one, of course, but true crime. Not this one. Although I have listened to a couple of your episodes. It was people you know were on. Yeah, my friends, basically my friends. That's fair. Who did the best out of all of your friends who have appeared on the show? Well, Devendra, I think, did a great job. He's lovely. Yeah, he did do a really good job. Yeah, he's great. Tough to beat, that Devendra. And so don't take it personally. It's just that I only listen to murder stuff. No, no. We don't take it personally. We prefer it, actually, if you don't listen. There's plenty of people out there that will, so it's fine. We'll survive. Because I know that you've probably done dozens and dozens of podcasts since podcasts have existed, but they're usually about music, songwriting, shit like that. So I want to put the energy out there so some of these conspiracy, true crimey podcasts bring you on as a guest so you can talk about what you really want to talk about versus your process. But that leads me to, of all the pods you've done, how many of them, percentage-wise, were good? Positive experiences? I haven't done that many. Okay. But I love the form. I love having a long chat. It's fun shooting the shit. So I love it. But I don't listen to stuff. I don't read like music biographies. I don't want to hear about music. I want to hear about art, like fine art, you know, or like, you know.

authors or whatever gluten-free baking maybe that's one of my favorite podcast genres is the gluten-free baking genre um i had i had a question in my notes from when you were originally going to be on and i don't know why it was on there but the question is what is the most impressive thing that you've ever cooked from scratch maybe not counting this rhubarb pie well that would be up there um well when i learned how to roast a chicken At 40. Okay. This is 40. This is 40. I made a Costco rotisserie chicken. Okay. So you learned, and that, what's your method? It's the Thomas Keller recipe, which I had never done that for myself. And I think, you know, like so many people during the pandemic, just like learning how to do these very basic things for oneself. Sure. So I feel like a pretty, well, more well-rounded person. than i was in 2019 oh yeah me too i guess i can't i can't say the same but i'm glad to know that not everyone backslid like me just video games you just played like no i i didn't i just didn't believe i was just like this is this is not going to change my life at all i don't give a fuck so i just act i did exactly the same stuff i always i maybe exercised even more than i do but i didn't really lean into some new hobbies or anything well good for you Well, I still don't believe it, but I am vaccinated. So don't worry, you're not going to catch anything. Well, most people became well-rounded in the stomach area. It was really a fork in the road of like... No, not fork, not fork. But, I mean, it really is like, 50% of the people I knew were like, yeah, I got a little home gym set up and I started intermittent fasting and I'm reading a lot more. And then the other half are like, Two o'clock is a good time to start drinking, right? Like on a Wednesday. We could have a bottle of wine for lunch because nothing matters. You know what I mean? And those people did get fat. The rules were off. The rules were gone. I was more in the ladder camp. Yeah. Well, how much are you smoking these days, Chief? I actually quit smoking weed almost a year ago. So edibles only. That's cool. Edibles only.

I was making a joke, but are you being serious? Yes, I'm being serious. Okay, sick. So firstly, I quit on 420. Nice. Really making a damn statement. Well, I wasn't going to remember the date unless it was an important date. So I was like, that's pretty funny to quit on that day. My stoner ass, if I don't quit on 420, I'm not going to even remember I quit in the first place. Exactly. But it was because I was having some health stuff, and it was like, okay, you're 40. how old am i now 40 47 like you probably shouldn't smoke like five joints a day sure like okay it's just like not sustainable especially if you're a singer yeah that that's the thing yeah it's and i've tried everything over the years because i've been smoking weed since i was 13 so and i've taken a couple breaks but pretty solid since then like starting with like giant graphics bongs that like someone else would have to like light the bowl you're like okay You never learned to use a lighter with your toes to light the six-footer all by yourself? No. Yeah, you are soft. I thought you were a real smoker. No, I'm a lifelong stoner. My dad was a pot activist and, like, helped. Like, he's a part of why it's legal now. And this is a funny story. He's name-checked in, like, the pot handbook, The Emperor Wears No Clothes, which is written by Jack Herrera. who has the Herrera strains of weed, who was also my babysitter, where they would drop me off at Herrera's head shop in the valley. Your location, your daycare center was a head shop? Yes, it really was. That's sick. That explains a lot about you, actually. And you became a stoner after that? Well, I feel like the hippie culture morphed into the Freebase culture. It wasn't the weed that was unattractive. It was that they were all freebasing back then. Yeah, freebasing will cause problems. Well, don't you crack. I don't know if you guys have seen the PSA. You've never smoked crack before. No, I have once. That's what I thought.

That's what I thought, because I have, too, and you kind of only do it once, and you're like... I didn't inhale. You're like, oh, this tastes like a tire. It doesn't taste like the sweet taste of marijuana that I'm used to. No, no. But it's a good tire. It tastes like a good tire. I mean, I guess, yeah, I feel like there's a time in your life where you're just like, yeah, man, fuck it, whatever, and then you kind of walk it back from there. Depending on your personality type, and I have found that, like... Drugs are not really for me other than weed. But then smoking is unsustainable if you want to be a healthy person. So now the edible world is wild because edibles really fuck you up. Okay, what is your edible brand of choice and what is your daily milligram dosage ballpark? Well, I always tell people if they're dabbling with edibles, do not take more than five milligrams. Safe. Because it'll creep up on you. So I kind of like, depending on if I'm working or not, like I'll, you know, do like 2.5, you know, during the day if I want like a little buzz while I'm like, you know. cleaning the house or whatever but like if i have like nothing to do i'll i'll take like 10 milligrams right over 10 and then at night i find it's very helpful for sleep the like you know cbn um indica whatever yeah i feel like my my edible dosage is about the same exact as you and it's cool because if you went from being five joints a day which is something i could never do it's cool that 2.5 affects you and hits you well enough to where you don't need to be taking you know 50 milligram doses like some of our other guests that we've had but that can creep up on you like depending because you have to metabolize it so depending on you know what you've eaten how fast your metabolism is like you can be out in the world on five milligrams and like

I was at the Clermont Lounge in Atlanta, where you're from, which is like the oldest strip club. Nasty place. Nasty place. And now it's like a bougie hotel on top of the strip club. It's a fake bougie hotel. Jason stayed there. It's fine. That's usually where I stay in Atlanta. I love it. It's a great, serviceable, nice little hotel, little coffee shop. Location is very good. Location is really good. I love it. And you can park your tour bus. front which is amazing we got a cookout down the street where'd you play in atlanta last time were you with harry or you've gone another time uh i played the eastern oh yeah it's really nice i love that it was so nice and i went down to the ponce market which is so cool i like that wasn't there you know i've been going to atlanta for 25 years on the locals the locals hate that pond city market because it causes a lot of congestion and traffic i also enjoy it for the the it's like when the grove came in in la yeah it's the same it's the same thing so you okay i call it the grave more like it and you can walk you know you can walk down from from you know the claremont so you were at the claremont gone off in edible is that where this was going oh yeah this was years ago and i was actually on a date uh with like a dude who was in la i was like oh we're both gonna be in atlanta why don't you meet me at the claremont lounge and, you know, like 4 p.m. right when it opens. He's like, yeah, it's going off tonight, baby. Ginny, you're free. Meet me at a strip club at 4 p.m.? I'm a fan of the happy hour. Oh, sure. I'm cool. Or the free buffet. The breakfast buffet. And so I had had a little bit of an edible and we went in and it had just opened and I just fainted right there on the bar. On this date, I just totally greened out. Yes, yeah, the term, damned. I greened out. Did he have to take you to Piedmont Hospital? What did we do? Well, luckily, my tour manager, who was staying in the hotel, was also, and he had walked into the club, and he sort of saw, and this poor guy was like, he thought I was just bored with his conversation.

Like, with my head down on the bar, like, taking a nap. Shut the fuck up, bro. You're killing me. He's so nice, this guy. Your tour manager hit you with a smell and salt? Yeah. And you were back in action. He sort of, like, got me. You know, I came to. I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. But that's the power of edibles. And it wasn't even that much. Yeah. But it just hit me. And, yeah, it was pretty scary. And I would like to make it a T-shirt that says, I fainted at the Claremont. lounge yeah you're not the first and you're not the last faint and od are two different things yeah it'll say i fainted at the claremont lounge and then in parentheses not like that not like that are you are you doing something right like what are you what are you doing right now are you making music i am about to go on tour with the postal service yes okay in a couple weeks so i'm kind of in the touring i'm going back and forth between my own touring because i put a record out last uh, June and then this 20 year anniversary tour, uh, which has been pretty expensive. So I'm kind of like, I was supposed to go, I was supposed to go to the, the bowl, but I just, I couldn't do it, but it seems we're friends with Ben. Ben did the show and we've like stayed in touch and stuff, but I, I, um, it's big. It's, it's like bigger than I realized kind of. Yeah. It's pretty big. It is very big. Like, did you, but I mean, did you know that the 20 years later you could sell places like this? Well, The record has sold over a million copies when that was, I guess, a thing when you would sell records. So I think, you know, we've been doing this for 20 years. And when we started, it happened so quickly. Like we were out on the road playing these very small little venues and then they upgraded us to like the bigger room. And that's never happened to me. Like mid-tour. Yes, mid-tour. We're going to need a bigger boat. Yeah, it's like we're going to close the balcony because we haven't. Yeah, yeah. But this is like you're playing the big room in, you know, Barcelona. So it was happening and then we stopped and didn't play another show for 10 years. So because it's like incremental, like over this long period of time, it's pretty amazing. And like the nostalgia trip, I don't.

Have we always been this nostalgic with music where we celebrate every birthday of every record? No. Thank you. Thank you to our friends at Stereogum. They really keep that alive over there. No, I think it's because there hasn't been enough good music, contemporary good music coming out that we sort of... have to go about i also think that people really like to relive you know certain parts of their lives and i think that's we we can do that through music of our youth or our early 20s you know when give up was out that was before i was fat before i had these damn kids exactly yeah yeah yeah i mean i feel like that about a bunch of stuff that that like i'm gonna go see sunday real estate because it's gonna take me back to fucking high school and it's gonna be good it's a win-win yeah but is it because there isn't new music that because people are There's great records coming out. Maybe fewer of them. I don't know. Definitely fewer of them. But I also think it's just like it's most people when they hit a certain age don't discover new music anymore because that's not their life. You know, they're not interested in the same way. So like they like what they like. They stop at 33 on average when they stop checking for new music. If a record came out when you were 22, you might listen to it all the time and it feels new because you're not. you're not seeking anything else out well and the time before the like spotify shuffle you know where you really did invest time with a record start to finish and like you became a part of your dna like the first shins record like i know every like note every word on that it's so much a part of me because we listened to it in the van over and over and over the whole thing yeah you know how many milliseconds are in between the tracks and when that thing when that first drum hit from song seven is going to come in well and then you remember how innocent things were seemingly back then you know just how simple and so maybe that's what it is people are nostalgic for like this time yeah well it's easier to enjoy when the time you know when things before we knew how the sausage was made yeah now now it's a little it's a little more difficult okay so all right yeah postal service and you guys are playing

Uh, just like heaven festival in Pasadena and you're doing, but like it's a world tour. Is it us? What are we doing? It's a us and, uh, Europe. Okay. And we're, we're ending in Portugal and I, uh, have always wanted to go to Morocco. And so I think I'm going to go to Tangier for a couple of days. You should, that's sick. Yeah, you should. I've never been, I want to go to, it looks amazing. Like there's a couple, I go everywhere. So I don't. Take vacations. I don't really, you know, but like Africa's number one on my list as far as places I want to check out. Yeah, that's great. You should, you know, take that time. What a great wrap party. Take your time for yourself. You know what I mean? Get away from these losers and go, you know, center it. Center yourself. Namastizzle. And don't bring edibles to Africa, okay? Be careful. Oh, yeah. How do you do? I guess you can't bring, no. Right? You don't want to risk that. Don't want to risk it. We call that a tree talks when you go to foreign lands where it's not wise to bring drugs. take two weeks and you start having nightmares in the hotel and then you come back and then the five milligrams really hits you harder you know i'm gonna sit you down are you saying that i should like taper off the headables before i get to no you got to go raw dog without a bag there's only that's the only way to do it yeah it's got to be a brick wall kind of thing oh my gosh it's fine that's that's real like if you uh you know if you have a drug dependency So drug dependency is real. You heard it here first. No, but with weed. If you smoke weed every day and then you don't, it is crazy how your dreams come back. Maybe you just don't remember your dreams. Your brain's like, oh, you didn't smoke tonight? We got some catching up to do. Let me fire the old nightmare machine. I got season three for your ass, bro. You better sit down. All right. Look, Jenny, thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. Everybody go see the Puzzle Service on tour. Stream Jenny Lewis. And Jenny, my favorite output from you, and I want to know if this is a touchy subject, is the Jenny and Johnny album. I love that record. And I listen to it all the time. Is it weird? Or do you think of it in a different way? No, I love that record. Okay. All right, good. I know it might be tainted. You know what I mean? No, no. I love all.

the records and i've been really lucky to do all these like side project one-offs so like my favorite is math nice as fuck which i made in new york like not many people know that record but and i don't know if we'll make another one yeah but yeah it's so fun that that i love that that's the fun of it yeah and that record was born out of like a deep love collaboration. There's some smashes on that shit. It's good. It's a no-skip situation. Alright, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you, Jenny. You guys go see the Postal Service. We'll talk to you soon. Okay, nice meeting you guys. Yeah, you too. We'll see you later. Bye! You had your feet on the ground.