089. - Ana Andjelic

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Hi Chris, how are you? What's up big dog? Ready to fucking create some content? Yeah, I've been editing content all day and it's about time that I squirted some out, you know? You know, sometimes you gotta let it spray and by that I mean make some content with Chris. It feels good. Yeah, I mean this is the only part of the job that doesn't feel like a job, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's why this is the only part I participate in. That's not true, Chris. You spend a lot of time booking all of our guests every week. Some famous, some not, some destined to be. Much like this podcast, the hosts of this podcast. Yeah, just days away. Dude, I have a little bone to pick with Mercedes Benz. oh it's about i kind of feeling this is gonna come i am just so i you know i've been renting a car thanks to midway my shooters over at midway on beverly boulevard um but that that's not a plug they're charging me full price but so i you know i have to go back at the end of every month to renew my my agreement with them and this time you know i they had this they had instead of the the 300c i was like oh they have the little they have the little suv the glc 300 let me try it you know it's brand new it looks nice a little more space for my tennis equipment and my you know yeah whole foods bags my lp loves that body style every time we drive by one she's like i like that car is that weird like you say that every hour well we can do a little we can do a tesla for glc trade no problem but so So I get in the car and I love Apple Play. I'm a huge Apple Play guy. If you drive a car, you probably love Apple Play too. And this motherfucking car only has a USB-C plug. That is fucking insane. That is a little wild. So then you have to get yet another dongle to go USB-C to lightning, I'm assuming.

I didn't even cop the dongle, bro. I went straight to Amazon while I was sitting in the car upset and copped the USB-C cord. Because it does, I will say, it does charge the phone faster. Yeah, that's true. I have one. I have multiple. I have multiple. I mean, it's hard out here, dude. You know what I mean? We're all kind of going through it in one way or another. This new normal is not easy for anyone. Chris Black is no exception to that rule. No, it's a shock to the system, TJ. What color little baby bubble SUV did you cop? It's like a blue. It's like a navy-ish gray. It's not a color I would choose because I think the only color car you should get is black. But it's pretty good. I only drove it last. I haven't driven it yet today, but I like it so far. I like sitting up a little higher. A big man like myself, maybe he needs a little bigger car. you know yeah i mean after that after all that escalade talk last week or last episode um well you know when i saw when i saw failing hip-hop podcaster elliot wilson jump into the chauffeur at escalade at erwan yesterday i was a little jealous yeah i really i had to google who that person was and apparently he is a guy who posts stuff on instagram about jay electronica albums on title yeah he's the guy who like how does that guy have have a driver in an escalade maybe he's just spending his own money i don't know rap rider rap the rap radar podcast is truly unlistenable but they did get drake so it's like who knows you know yeah i guess rap radar makes enough money to have yeah i mean i mean he was he was literally he's dusty as fuck i mean he was literally wearing a montclair logo t-shirt which who does that that's the dustiest shit i've ever seen do you think it was real or fake No, it's probably real, but we're only rocking Montclair collaborations. You already know that, bro. We're only rocking the Gambli. Actually, we're not rocking that either, but you know what I'm saying. Overall, I'm dealing with a lot of automobile stuff in LA. It's really part of the lifestyle here. Sure. You're a real grease monkey is what they call him, right? I'm a real grease monkey. It's me and Leno, neck and neck. We see Chris Black.

His head buried under the hood of an imported automobile. Exactly. I'm constantly waiting for my BMW parts like all your favorite graphic designers. Yeah, what's up, Hassan? Speaking of the Montclair, it's not really too noticeable here in sunny SoCal, but... you know autumn is starting to approach us and we're just around the corner from winter time and i i'm still rocking the same dusty north face puffer for that i've had for a long time i mean obviously you know a black north face puffer it never goes out of style but i think i might is tj looking to upgrade i mean you know this year you know if we if it gets a little chilly and when people start traveling again if i find myself you know You know, tasting some lovely tray bakes in merry old England or searching the fjords of Iceland. Don't say Iceland like that. Or even if I just go to San Francisco for a weekend. Why would you do that? I mean, that's crazy. If I had an important venture capitalist meeting or if I had to discuss anything with my editor or something, I would go up there. But it does get chilly at night. Well, I don't know what to suggest for you, TJ. I mean, obviously, there's a classic Patagonia. I actually got sent recently. Columbia has some wild new technology, like new puffer they sent me. It's pretty cool. Who else? I like Columbia. I mean, Montbell could be good. I kind of want one with no logo, though. You could get RAB, like Virgil. You could rock. I mean, you could rock the Arky like the true Grafhead that you are. Does Virgil do R.I.B.? Yeah, Virgil will always be repping R.I.B. He had the pants on on the boat the other day on his story. Damn. R.I.B. is another brand that I can't wear.

Yeah, well, I mean, you wear off-white, so explain that one. But yeah, I think that there's a lot of options out there, but we can go through. I'm sure some of our fucking listeners are going to have a lot of dumb suggestions. I only wear off-white skinny jeans, bro. Other than that, nothing, all right? Bitch, I've seen you with the long belt. Don't front. It's normal on me. I think, though, the thing about TJ and the thing I love about your style is that you could rock all kinds of crazy colors and it would look good on you. Yeah, I can do it in all kinds of crazy colors. And I can, you know, I'm not afraid. I've got the legs to do a puff with a short as well. You do have the legs. And I think, yeah, I could see you. Looking like a nice little Soho thought. That's exactly what you are. I have a nice, very, very old orange Patagonia that I really like. A nice mid-weight that punches above its weight, if you know what I'm saying. How old are we talking? 70s? Just kidding. No, no, no, no, no. Like eight or nine years old. When Jake Davis and I were shopping the semi-annual Patagonia sale and all that's left is the crazy flavors, sometimes I partake. Yeah, me too. I found some unique pieces in that as well. Another thing. You know, I noticed at the beginning of quarantine when we were potting, do you remember when they announced that Cops, your favorite television show, was going to be out of production? They're back, baby. It's back. What are you going to do? What do you think happened? What are you going to do when they come for you? People stopped caring about... The insensitivity of showing people being arrested? Or what do you think happened? I think like a lot of other things, it was put on pause until they felt like the storm had passed. I'm sure that was always the plan. If a television show of that low caliber has been on for 20 years, it probably continues to make money.

um and works for the network you know what i mean i there's there's it's that simple i would say i would say but but it really is it's it's a little different than like oh we should we should wait to announce our new flavor of yogurt until after you know people stop dying it's not that it's like it's just a doc you know it's a 24-hour news feed of of people at the worst in their life being you know tj chased down and arrested and dragged out of i i agree with you and i i will trust me i will not be watching cops ever again i realize the error of my ways um but we got real growth happening here today like it's also i mean cops is also a graveyard 8 p.m saturday night time slot it's not like they like there's There's nothing else to put in that shit time slot that costs – I mean, cops cost nothing to make. You know what I mean? It's like original reality TV, like literally just cameras and miking up some pigs. Yeah, you don't even have to pay for talent. There's definitely no talent involved in making an episode of Cops. I will agree with that. I will agree with that. Last thing of note to talk about before we get to our guests and before we start discussing the business of aspiration and – and so on. I was having dinner last night at a restaurant called Felix. Oh, he had to flex on his big focaccia boys over here. Had to flex on his little carb load last night for TJ. Yeah, LP splashed out for me. I know. She told me she was doing this, and I was like, why? What the fuck did he do? Well, just because I took her out to a nice dinner last week, so she was reciprocating the favor. Oh, that's nice. Just at one... One partner treating another. That's simply all it is. Jesus Christ, I'm going to cut my fucking head off. Continue with your story. But after I was looking at myself on the Twitch screen for 60 minutes last week, I realized maybe it's time to start growing the hair back. Wow, really? I actually...

I actually really liked the cropped look on TJ, but then you did, you sent me that scan of your driver's license and the hair was just immaculate. That shit was, that shit was reaching towards God because God was reaching towards it. You know what I'm saying? It was, it was a beautiful, but, but I mean, what about that awkward in between stage, bro? That's what I'm, you know, that's what I wanted to talk about. Why don't I think it's going to be, um, you know, if it's going to be a lot of hat recommendations on the strategist coming my way because. You know, there's nothing worse than that three or four month period between a buzz and normal hair. It's just, you look, there's no good way to do it. there's not i think you look good i'm i'm definitely sticking with the buzz this is the rest of my life i love the simplicity of it it's too good well i mean i could still grow my hair out is the difference here you know so i i want to pull you know despite me being uh a couple a couple years older than you you can't see me you can't see me doing the arthur fist but look I might not have as full of a head of hair as you, but your skin also looks like leather. So, you know, you win some, you lose some. Just wait on it. Wait till summer's done. Wait till the temperature drops down into a degree that is two digits. Summer's over interlude. Continue. Yeah, wait till summer's over interlude happens. And then we'll see who's humming a different tune once my skin goes back to, you know. A little pastier, a little more well-rounded. No, I think it's just years of Los Angeles living has just done you wrong, bro. And you probably didn't start moisturizing until you met Carolyn. So it's like you got a lot of catching up to do, family. Where's the lie to everything you just said, unfortunately? Unfortunately, well, I also think, though, let me just give one suggestion before we get to our guest. You know, I know KK has been cutting your hair. Maybe try to get one professional haircut as is. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to hit up my man. I'm going to make a little appointment and just say, hit me on the back, hit me on the sides, hit it, suck my dick from the side, from the back, nothing on the top. And then that will set the foundation for the rest of my head game to grow back sufficiently lined up. I can't wait for your head game to finally be sufficient. Well, I mean, the neck game has been great. Throat game has been bananas. Yeah, but yeah, the head game.

Just going back to the fundamentals, I'm a little rusty. I understand. Let's welcome our guests. Yeah, totally. Our guest today is Ana Angelic. She is a strategy executive, the author of the forthcoming book, The Business of Aspiration. She has a very popular newsletter that dives deep into the fine arts of buying and selling and marketing and branding and all the stuff that we talk about in this podcast, like idiots. I met her a few years ago when we did a panel for the outlet High Snobiety, where her and I shit on everything and other people looked at us like we were crazy. But she's a character and has a lot of great, great things to offer. So let's bang her line. We shall. Bye-bye. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone... It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app.

using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable. And they're just easy, but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics, but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world. writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools.

So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. Head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Hey, guys. Jason here. Quick disclaimer. The recording with Ana today, she was in Mexico City. Our Wi-Fi was a little weird and wacky. So there will be some parts where the audio drops out. So please bear with us. Thank you. Hey, what's good. So what's going on? You're in Mexico city. What are you doing there? Oh, just like vacation. What were you? All right. And you said that you, you were in Miami before that. What were you doing in Miami? Oh, we are like now, my husband and I, we are in Miami now at the moment for a few months. Usually, like, I mean, we are based in New York, but we sort of decamped for Miami. What's the vibe down there? How is it? It's actually pretty good. Like, I hated it. Like, I was crying when we left New York in mid-July. You broke? No, no, we flew. Oh, okay. I flew. Come on, Chris. I'm sorry. no and it's it's awesome it's really good it's really good because people are like super chill and they're in a good mood and they're enjoying life and i was in new york in september and i'm like get me fuck out of here okay anna so you have you already contracted the coronavirus and you've you've cured from it you are healed now is that what's going on no i'm like i literally tested myself the moment i like

before i board the plane i tested it's always negative is it disappointing or what so you kind of want you want you wouldn't mind getting it just to get it over with is that what you're saying no god no no did you guys have coronavirus most likely yeah probably i i i have a wide arrangement an assortment of diseases at any given moment I kind of wish I would have gotten it too. I mean, I knew a lot of people that had it in the beginning, but I haven't really heard about people having it in the last couple months in my life. No. Yeah. So you're in Mexico City. What neighborhood are you in? We're in Condesa. Sure. Are you saying in a hotel or are you in an Airbnb? Condesa Juarez. That's sort of like border. like just now we actually uh have you heard of sonder sonder is some like um apartment rental but it's not like dingy like airbnb it's like condo and it's like super new apartment i've heard i've heard of saunder it's like raya for apartments kind of yeah because like for example in new york you would end up no uglies no fatties condo building or in financial district in a condo building so yeah building has like a it's a business center it has like rooftop like 13 pools it's nuts it's insane Seriously. And everything is like $2. I got to say, your Eastern European accent while you're recounting all of this information really drives it home in a special way. Are you guys laughing at me or with me? Both. That's the whole premise of this show. Where are you from originally? I'm Serbian. All right, all right, all right. You know, I've eaten, what's the Serbian restaurant in New York that's really popular? Kafana. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love Kafana. What's the French fry thing you guys do over there? What? I've never heard of a Serbian French fry preparation. Like, no, no, Kafana in East Village. Yes, Kafana in East Village. I've been there many times, and I really like it, and I've had Serbian food other times.

Yeah, I do. I mean, it's not like your mom's cooking or whatever, but I don't know anybody. My mom doesn't cook like that. So are you saying kafana is bad? It's not bad, but it's not great. So your mom is a better cook than these village losers. Does your mom cook like whatever, you know, like... My mom does cook hamburgers, yes. Yes, my mom cooks hamburgers and like... chicken there's nothing there's no flavor in our food you know so what is what are the hit serbian dishes yeah you thought you were white anna chris is very white what are the hit serbian dishes well everything you can get in kafana but like more tastier all the all the food that you've had but actually good good tasting okay i mean but But no, I mean, I need you to break it down for our listeners. Like, what are the top Serbian dishes in your mind? Like, what are the hits that we have to add? And maybe how they differ from Russian cuisine specifically. Oh, my God. Did you really? Okay, so shall we start with, like, oof. Oof. I think that the sound is pretty good if you heard that. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, we'll be able to clean it up in post-production. You're not recording this, are you? Yeah, we are. We're recording this. This is how all of it works. No, I'm glad that you're not going into, like, top third conditions. That's what we wanted. Ana, we're both very obsessed with food. So, you know, we will be able to talk to you about business marketing eventually. But for now, I need to know all the different ways that you eat hard-boiled eggs over there. I know. It sounds like a... Yeah. I mean, I wanted to say it sounds like a roast, but then it's like it hits too close to home. So I take it you haven't listened to this podcast very much. I did, but I just thought you guys would be like, I don't know, like kinder.

Okay, okay. I'm sorry. No, this isn't a joke. We really talk about food all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, what did you like most in kafana? And I'll tell you how that really tastes. I'm trying to think. I feel like there was, like, some sort of... I'm not recalling very well, but I feel like there was some sort of, like, fried cheese thing that was very good. Am I wrong? I don't know. Well, what are your favorites? Give us your top three so we understand. I think you made us one up, to be honest. I don't like Korean food. Is it better? No. No. Well, what kind of food do you like to eat the most? You like a little sushi, a little Mexican? What's going on? I like Italian. No, no. I like French. You? I love it all. But, you know, French cuisine, you know, it can be it can be very rich sometimes but i do love eating a nice bread and butter that's probably my favorite thing to eat you know for french cuisine and then japanese yeah japanese nice and clean japanese like but like not including sushi um you know just any type of the way japanese people eat very cleanly you know steam their vegetables Nice, clean rice flavors. They're not mixing it with lots of other stuff to make it crazy. Everything is very compartmentalized, pickled, healthy. It's nice to eat. It makes your body feel good. I know. You know that. We try to eat very healthy on this podcast. It's kind of a pillar of ours. You don't look like me healthy at all. What about cigarettes? What kind of cigarettes do you smoke, Anna? I don't smoke anymore. Okay. parliament lights i mean sorry american spirit that's pretty heavy duty i'm a heavy guy it is pretty heavy duty i would agree but jason loves smoking and isn't isn't he he was a big jewel guy for a while but luckily he gave that a return to the classic hey who's roasting who over here yeah you're laughing because it is funny to think of a 40 year old girl

Look, I was, I was jeweling in my thirties, Chris. All right. Be nice. That's true. That's true. That's true. Uh, well, what's the scene report? We need a scene report for Mexico city though. What's the vibe? Obviously the condo is nice, but have you been eating out? Is the weather nice? Are people nice? Like, have you been there before? Yes. We've been there before, like 2013, 14. Yeah. Like a while ago. and it's amazing we're like outside all the time because now i think it's the best time because it's so high up that it's cool but it's sunny so you can just walk around and like do whatever everyone is eating outside it's amazing like i like we are eating outside like the entire the entire time and i don't think we'll have enough time to eat everything we want is everybody wearing a mask there oh my god they're going nuts you need to hear this so they're wearing a mask they're made like goggles they're wearing a face shield no no seriously like i'm not joking i believe you i mean that's they're doing the same thing here in america do they in miami they're just wearing masks well miami is a little different you know what i mean miami is a little different yeah we i we have a lot of friends in miami i love miami one of my favorite cities in america but you know it is in florida at the end of the day it is in florida true story however i'm wearing a lot of masks but let me finish so you know they have they have little mats here yeah disinfection like like liquid and you have to walk to the little mat like it does nothing that does all it's like but they're like they're like taking your temperature which of course everywhere else is but you have like between the mat the hand sanitizer and the little temperature if you go shopping like like it's two stores in an hour yeah it takes i agree it's not very efficient yeah but like restaurants are all open you can sit outside and it's awesome we went to pujol last night and we were sitting inside and we were like you know what if we got we get corona at least we're like we got it from pujol and it was good you know so yeah did you have the the mole that was aged

They did. Because they have a tasting menu. That's the only thing they have. So mole comes at the end. Did you enjoy the mole? It's good, yeah. It was great. Do you not like mole? No, I do like mole, but I've heard people describe it as something a little bit more orgasmic than what you just said. No, I do like it, but come on. It's a spoonful of sauce at the end of the day. How good can it be? No, it was good. It was good. They gave me two kinds, and they went into great detail. One had four ingredients, the other three. So, see, I was paying attention. And then they take you out to their vegetable garden, and they remember dish number three. Oh, my God, this is amazing. You're a gringo thing. I had to call a gringo thing, although I'm not a gringo. Right, right. You're not a gringo. Easily confused for one, though. I when I went there, they tricked me into eating crickets. And yeah, like I told them this is a long time ago. I was like, I'm a vegetarian. And they were like, yes, but do you eat insects? And I was like, I don't know. I've never really thought about that before. And then I had a little cricket in my salad. And you know what? It wasn't bad. It's not bad. No, see, last night, like yesterday, I almost ordered guacamole con chapulines, and chapulines are those crickets. Luckily, I looked it up before. Yeah, that seems like a really good way to ruin some guacamole. Am I right, Ana? I don't know. Well, I wish I was, I don't know. I wanted to try. Well, speaking of food, you recently wrote about modern food brands evoking the intimacy of cooking clubs. um and the new localism do you remember writing this what a segue yeah you know don't let anybody tell you that we aren't professional podcasters well it was smooth i'm a smooth cat

Spirit and jewelry, like, no, you're not smooth, but yes. Okay, so I did not have time to read that article, but I would like to talk about it. So when you say the intimacy of a cooking club, do you mean like when a group of friends might gather together and everyone makes a certain type of dish and they all share it together? Yeah. you can call it like that or you know how in spain there are those like secret clubs cooking clubs around for like hundreds of years and like as a tourist or someone who is like passing by you can see and it's like oh what this like people hanging out and you know like what they're doing there and some of the best food in spain is prepared in those private cooking clubs and you can't get access until unless you know someone who knows someone who knows someone. And the whole point is that of that article and I guess of cooking clubs is that this is what the value chain, what we thought was a restaurant. Okay, you have a kitchen and then in the same place you have where the food is sold and where the food is eaten doesn't need to exist like that at all. You can have a pastrami guy with an Instagram account. There is a guy in Miami that my husband is obsessed with, and I'm not sure why, because he keeps talking about the guy's biceps, so maybe I should think. Yeah, maybe he went down to Mexico City for a different reason. I don't know, but anyway, his name is Mimo. Mimo makes burrata. and burrata is famous but mimo is also a surfer and mimo how he photographs himself it's always like his guns you know like he's always very like it's like i don't know how is that you know like his hands are so he's a hot guy who makes burrata yeah exactly and and like what doesn't matter he has a life you know and i think that that was like now more like seriously well

It's more like you kind of buy from him because you know all about him. Like, oh, he's a surfer and he wears jewelry like you do. And he's sort of like, you know, like, you know where he's going out, you know how he makes stuff, you know how he's doing. and that's that sort of intimate personal relationship that you're creating with someone who is also and you're kind of buying from him not because of a transactional value you can buy that with almost everywhere you want but because you want you want to support him as a maker you you would rather give your hard-earned money to him versus a faceless corporate grocery store chain or something that's true and that's all that's that's that and then it also like he has his skin in the game you know and you kind of is like this the the pain and the glory of running a small business and yes you do want to kind of like give your money but you're also kind of want to him as a small business owner to do to do well so you're kind of going to talk a podcast about him you know yeah it's a good story Well, I mean, I don't even know. So, yeah, that's the whole thing. And the other thing is you also feel like you know him. Because, like, you buy through, like, Instagram is the main storefront. And then you have, like, again, those cookouts that people just, like, basically put their, like, stuff out. Or, like, this woman, Jenny of Jing Daily, she's making condiments by herself, you know? She's from Shanghai. like all those brands they come with some sort of not brands all those people come with some sort of story and you kind of buy into that story and she she painted this picture of like hole in the wall joints where there is some of the best shanghai food is like when you go like three steps down knock on the wood like you know like move the person and there you are so i guess like when you're buying stuff from there you're buying a little bit of that vibe

yeah i mean i love it so do you do you give your money to any of these instagram uh attractive surfer food sellers i don't cook as we already established with my lack of excitement about mole sorry sorry say that again say that again after the mole my husband does so he buys he's literally hooking himself up with like not i'm still here this is terrible by some like there is um alex the pastrami guy in mexico city and he discovered him on instagram and you can whatsapp alex and you can be like uh me quiero pastrami that's how you get with him so that's all and it sounds like your husband and me is meeting a lot of different guys on instagram When I started talking, when I said he's hooking up. Yeah, he's definitely hooking up with these guys. Well, he actually, like the best food discoveries he made on Instagram. All of a sudden, there is like second city meats coming, you know, like to our apartment in Miami. Or I like, seriously, he found all of that on Instagram. He's just buying directly from those producers. Cut the middleman. I think that's a better way to live. I think that COVID in general has obviously decimated a lot of small businesses, but I also think it's pushed people to patronize small businesses more. If you have the money and you care, you want to support people like this more because you understand that they're having a hard time and you understand that the product is better and there's a story you're investing in. What about ghost kitchens? Do you think that the celebrity-driven restaurants that are operated out of ghost kitchens, are any of them good? Or all the ones I've seen are pretty bad?

Well, I think that's a different thing. I think they're connected, but they're different things. And Chris, can I just take a step back for a second and just tell Chris, I think that people, you give people too much credit. You think that people are like too enlightened. Oh, I support the maker. No, it's like people are just like, oh, this is. cool and I want some like Mimo's Burrata because it looks amazing and I like it's immediate gratification also. I think to an extent you're right and I trust me I do not give people too much credit and I take offense to that. No I think that I think that pre-COVID no one gave a shit. I think post-COVID or in COVID times people who never cared before are thinking more critically about where they're buying things. That I will say. Of course, look and all that stuff goes into it. And it's just a good product, of course. But I do think a normal layman is now considering things more than they've ever considered them before. I don't know. You don't know? You don't have much faith. Well, you know, I don't have much faith in people either. But I do think that I just know a lot of people with small businesses that have felt the love during COVID and have done well. yeah yeah yeah that's that part i actually agree with because all of a sudden like the cast their customers come together as a family or a community and they're like like and they're like buying forward i think you're right because i remembered that people actually paid their like i gave my facialist like money although like i was like for the future you know what i mean okay well now you're just showing off okay Not all of us can afford to pay our facialist even when they're not working right now. You guys seem to be working. It was really hard to get on this podcast. Well, I did. I mean, I paid a lot of my staff in advance as well. Jason knows. I gave Jason a little change too to help him get live. He's keeping the lights on over here. I also, I wanted to read, I was trying to read the thing you wrote for Adweek, but that shit is behind a paywall.

We can't afford the paywall. Okay, I'll send you the article. So that piece was about how we don't have these larger-than-life icons that we had maybe earlier in our childhood, and now everyone is sort of iconic in their own little way. Does that kind of summarize it a little bit? Well, I don't know when your childhood was. In the 80s. 80s 90s yes so in that yes so that article is about how now it part of it is how in the 80s it was easier to have iconic products iconic ideas iconic movies like back to the future air jordans fresh prince of bel-air fresh prince of bel-air or even in the 90s then they have like britney spears and it was like ideas and people that everyone sort of gathered around in a sense that that meant they meant one thing to everyone and not that we are all iconic because like clearly we are we might think that we are iconic in our own minds and we might maybe praise and congratulate our friends for being quote unquote iconic you know even when they aren't by the definition of the word perhaps you know Okay. God damn it. Anna, you're taking over. I quit. You and TJ are doing a podcast together now where you can put his big ass in his place. Anna, our chemistry is undeniable. You have to agree with that. But I do think that I agree. So you're saying that in today's time, is it because we're just... There's too much going on. We're unable to all focus as a group on one iconic item or thing or movie or television show. Well, that's, yes, that's one thing. The other thing is that everything is happening really fast. So you have like, you know, at one moment, something is like really popular. And I think that people conflate iconic and popular a lot. I would agree. Yeah. And also because people are like,

they're in their own little like micro communities and bubbles and they focus on what they're interested in and it's easy to ignore the rest so it's easy to say Cardi B like oh I know Cardi B but like I don't you know like I don't care or I care only through a certain angle like even iconic people or the most popular people now Cardi B is one thing to to say to her fans, people who love her. It means another thing for people who like Nicki Minaj. It means another thing for people who are, I don't know, in artisanal coffee or in Japanese electro music, you know? So I think there is too many taste bubbles now. People are just sort of interpreting it through that lens. And it's not like when there was mass media, it was kind of like, okay, this is how it is, guys. And then you had subcultures. And almost like everything exists through subculture. And that's why we sort of need curation to connect those subcultures. Someone needs to tell you what's going on outside your little bubble, you know? Yeah, I like the idea. Go ahead, Chris. I like that. So, I guess, what's the difference between a taste bubble and a subculture, exactly? I think the taste bubbles are much smaller than subcultures. So, imagine if you had, like, punk was a subculture. Yes. But it was massive, you know? And it was also reactionary to the mainstream. True. And now, those taste bubbles are not reaction to anything. they're just like oh fuck you i just like japanese denim and i'm going to learn anything i want about japanese denim you know i'm not doing that in reaction to something that's happening in the mainstream i'm doing it just because i'm interested in that yeah you're right that's that's absolutely real and i agree there are too many of them and it's um yeah that was it's hard to keep up what do you think um

Is it a good thing or is it a bad thing that there aren't really any icons anymore? Well, it's a bad thing in a sense that they used to be vehicles of social cohesion, right? People were watching the Oscars. Imagine now watching the Oscars. Only a loser would do that. First of all, I watch every award show live on the cable television that I pay for. So just watch your mouth, okay? even though chris is a little younger than me he behaves as somebody twice my age you know like celebrate life chris yeah he's missing that joie de vivre isn't he so yeah so like so and then like when you have michael jordan it was an iconic personality an iconic player an iconic game like way more people were into basketball or i guess obsessed by it you know like now like fortnight and whatnot and then then the other thing is that it was iconic product you know because it was worn by someone who was larger than life i guess you know he was really better than he is really better than majority of nba players so that's that's that undeniable personality behind it but why do you think like um it became even more iconic is because of all those interpretations afterwards. Like it was 30 years of riffing of it, you know? Yeah, no, you're right. You're absolutely right. It continued on. I mean, I think that, I honestly think that now it's changed so much that someone like Travis Scott is going to sell more sneakers than an actual athlete. You know what I mean? I think that that is also something that's changed where I think. style wise athletes matter maybe more than they did then as a whole but rappers still matter more than all of them yeah you know what i mean so i think that's that's also a shift in some ways um but but the jordan yeah i mean it continues on it soldiers on as an icon but i i agree with you completely about the status of the world and why stuff like that won't happen is because people are able to just kind of

like you said go into their own taste bubbles and ignore what else is going around are there are there any positives to the fact that there aren't as many iconic people in the world oh yeah because i think it's like now it's super democratic like if you decide to become an icon i truly believe you can achieve that status wow so Anna, Chris really loves your special brand of humor, as do I. Keep it together. So the positive thing of this is that I think that what is going to be bubbled as iconic really depends on less on media and mass media and gatekeepers and it depends on social dynamics. So whoever captures the mood of the moment then bubble up to become that. Or you have a niche and all of a sudden that becomes iconic because you know like they're really into like Patagonia stuff for example or Tracksmith stuff or I don't know some sub like artisanal coffee all of a sudden becomes a movement and you're like wait how did this happen and that's the confluence of people being really passionate about something and the right mood of the moment people are really into cooking right now like there isn't anyone who isn't cooking aside of me you know like that is becoming like the big thing. So all of a sudden you're going to see a lot more chefs becoming celebrities. And I don't mean TV, like Iron Chef shit, but like just bubbling up on the internet. Yeah, you're talking to one of them right now. Yeah, Jason's bubbling up on the internet in the food world. I don't know if you know that. Little did I know. Little did I know. I know. I mean, he can do everything. See, I had a premonition that you're already iconic.

Thank you for that. Big Bird's going to be an icon. But I do think that the – I actually am pro-gatekeeper. So I'm a little annoyed that the barrier of entry has been – is so low now for everything in the world. Like I think that there – this is – we talk about this a lot on the show because we talk about Substack and newsletters and all that bullshit. But that having the direct audience is great. But I still would rather be published somewhere. that i consider to be worthy and get paid less personally like i i would i would rather write for vanity fair and gq and new york magazine and make my money doing something else than have a sub stack and that's the only way i i communicate with writing um but do you think we need to do both because i think that writing for these major publications is what gets people to know you and like your work and then you bring them to your sub stack and they pay is that how you see it working unless you're already verified on social media then you don't have to uh put yourself out there that's a good point i i mean i agree with both of you and i i'm also pro gatekeepers because i do think that there is such thing as expertise still and criticism and and knowledge and not that everyone can come in and be like yo I'm you know I'm a curator or something there needs to be some some work done and there needs to be some research done and then I mean call it maybe this is elitist point of view like I don't know but I do also agree that there is a merit in in in in still having that still going somewhere where not a lot of people can enter you know in a sense I think that the ecosystem is just more complex. It's not either or. Yeah, I think nowadays you can gain the expertise necessary to be a gatekeeper all on your own for free off of the internet, whereas you weren't really able to do that before. Right.

And that's what we are seeing a lot of on newsletters. Chris's newsletter is a great example. I open that every day. Because I trust him. I'm that one person who opens every day. So Chris's newsletter is an example of what you were saying? For example, yeah, or this podcast, because I know that it was like, it's really hard to get on and like on this podcast. And I'm not, I'm not kidding now. Now I'm really serious because you have a really singular point of view, what kind of conversation you want to have. And you also have sort of reputation and you also have your own very discerning point of view. that you're bringing forward and you don't want to waste your time and you don't want to waste your audience's time. So this is already some sort of, you know, expertise that put forward no less than GQ or Vanity Fair or Rare Mail or whatever. From your mouth to God's ears. Damn right. Well, you know, we would be remiss if we didn't talk about your upcoming book. the business of aspiration uh how social cultural and environmental capital transforms brands so let's get into it how long did you work on what do those words mean what do those words mean like yeah break it down for us dum-dums here at how long gone okay first of all i think back what they just said look i know what business means and aspiration But how are they drawn together? For us, we talk about that a lot, or Chris does specifically. He loves aspirational content, the world of luxury, that feeling that's evoked from that. And obviously the word aspiration in that sense has changed from our childhood to whatever it is now and whatever it's going to be in the future. So I would like to hear what your thoughts on that are.

Right. I'm going to answer that by tying it back to something that Chris said before about a lot of taste communities. And the reason I'm saying that when he said that Travis Scott and selling more stuff than basketball players. But imagine now the culture, everything is flat. Everything participates in sort of same space. So you don't have any more like, oh, I'm a sports fan. No, you're a rap fan and a sports fan and a street fan and a blink fan. So I think it's important to understand the inspiration in that culture that combines a million different things and million different courses. So in that sense, like a brand is competing with you guys for my attention. And my book is competing with some brand and with like a thousand other things that are vying for people's attention. And how people are choosing what to pay attention to and what to find valuable is really where the modern inspiration revolves around. So it's more like taste and curation and aesthetic innovation and style. I'll give you an example. Apple style, like when you leave the United States, Huawei is everywhere. So the moment they landed in Mexico City, Huawei stores, you know Huawei, of course, the Chinese phone company. Yes, yes. So those motherfuckers, I'll tell you why I called them that. They literally ripped off Apple down to the point of advertising. So there is a smart watch. like a Huawei Fit that comes with free earpods. It's like exact same Apple, like advertising. There is Huawei Store. That is not, I'm giving you those examples. Huawei Store looks exactly like Apple Store down to Genius Bar and those classes and so on. However, when you look at the value innovation, that is what Apple did. It introduced some sort of value in the category when there was none before.

It's not competitively better than something else. It makes competition irrelevant. It literally made Microsoft irrelevant. It made entire PC industry irrelevant. When it came with the MacBook. When it came with the iPhone, it rendered the entire phone industry irrelevant. Yeah. You're right. How I think in terms of value innovation. And that is what the book is about. That means how do you really create a business around these new sources of value? Why is it really cool to have like this pair of sneakers? And why is Travis Scott and McDonald's this absolute collaboration like graveyard? Well, who's creating these, you know, these? innovative value propositions in a way that doesn't make you want to call them a motherfucker ikea is a good example okay i'll tell you why because it's not meaningless collaboration okay like for example what they do with that they're like oh how do we part you know people you know sports you know how people exercise we know people we know their homes how do we combine those two things and we know that more people more and more people they don't have time so they exercise at home so how about you we and us come together and figure something out for those people who exercise at home yeah i'm very smart so for me that's or how even if you want to go towards sustainability and social good they're like oh like house like a lot of households in africa they don't have electricity can we create like light without electricity. Because if we do that, their GDP is going to rise, they're going to have less mortality. At birth, they're going to be more educated because they won't have to leave school when it's dark. They're going to be working more and so on. So when you think about that in the world, then you can create a ton of value. But when you don't, you have the art of meaningless collaboration. You have Travis Scott and McDonald's.

Yeah, but is it meaningless? I mean, it's meaningless to us, but there's a lot of people who are getting very rich off of it. And I think collaborations in general, a lot of time are a cash grab, which is the issue. And that's why they're not they're not seen as necessary to some consumers because we know what it is versus maybe a less educated consumer just wants it to feel a part of something or to be part of that moment, maybe. what moment i mean i i like i i agree with you and i think it's a it's a shortcut it's a shortcut to cultural relevance i completely agree with you i mean i think that among a certain set of people you know showing your receipt from ordering travis scott mcdonald's merch on instagram was was a you know i'm cool this is a sign of me being you know with the times you know what i'm saying um Same thing with a lot of sneakers or fashion in general or even other sorts of collaborations that are more expensive or more exclusive or whatever. I think it's a signifier to your own taste bubble that you are ahead of the curve or with the curve and you have this great taste. I mean, that's what I think collaborations are a necessary evil kind of in the world of commerce in all ways. Okay. I would like to hear your opinion on something because what you just said is like kind of reflection of taste. But isn't that whole point of this like aspirational economy or culture that we have that you develop your taste that is super micro? Because that sounds to me like mainstream taste, what you describe. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm talking about mainstream taste, but I think the micro stuff. it still permeates the same way among groups. You know what I'm saying? So like if Jason and I are hyper specific into this one thing and we talk about it and then our friends talk about it, it's on a smaller level, but the same exact thing is happening. You know what I'm saying? It's the same thing is happening that we are signifying what we like and our taste to each other as like almost a siren call to others that feel the same way or maybe even have the same taste as we do.

I think the examples that we can think of and the examples that we've covered are more mainstream because that's easier to talk about. You know what I mean? But if Jason wanted to talk about a certain kind of Japanese knife that he uses in the kitchen, there's a lot of people that would be like, oh, Jason's cool. He knows about this knife. Whereas you and I, it would be meaningless to us. I do like knives. That's exactly the point. That's exactly the point. So that's a question. Right. So in that sense, that's like. what becomes iconic is becomes on a very large scale. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that now it's, it's iconic and mainstream are, are completely synonymous. And anything, almost everything is mainstream at this point. I've said it on this podcast. It's the urban outfitterization of America. Like everything is cool, light. Everything is, is meant for everybody in a lot of ways. And it's kind of killing. It's killing taste in a lot of ways. You said that because I'm like, for me, it's not taste. It's the same as logos. And that is what the luxury is all about. It's like about streetwear collapse and logos. That's the big luxury, like big farm or big meat. And that Japanese knife, that is what is handmade, what is craftsmanship. What Hermes says, Hermes is like, we are not luxury. We are like carefully handcrafted goods. And they literally want to make that distinction, whereas luxury before meant something that was handcrafted. Yes, yes. I mean, if you look at fashion historically, you know, those houses and the way they started, their history is all very handmade. You know what I mean? And like artisanal in the way that you're talking about. And now it's become, yeah, you know, Gucci putting Gucci on T-shirts and they're $900. I mean, I think that you... Maybe as a culture, maybe we are wanting to return to some of that, or at least some of us are wanting to return to things that feel, you know, more handmade for lack of a better term, or things that are more at least considered and labored over versus just like a logo to earn money. I think we want more maybe things that have a story. And I don't mean that story in a BS sense, but I think like Jason, like.

Maybe you like that knife because you remember exactly where you bought it. And you know exactly how you want to use it and what kind of food you want to use it for. And you also know who made it. Yeah, because half the fun of buying that knife is not... using it and taking a picture of it it is talking to your friends about it at their next dinner party and you know and if that knife comes with a good story then it's easier for you to tell your friends about it and hopefully make you look cooler yeah so i think it's more about that because like what is the what is the latest collection of gucci or balenciaga what story does it tell you know like that's my street where It was really used to be really cool because it was that story because there was a DJ and that's why Telfar is really cool right now. Expand on that, my brother. What's that? Expand on that, please. On Telfar Clemens because he has been around for 15 years and there is a lot of layers upon layers upon layers of... cultural meaning and associations and references that he created in a very specific community so it went very deep he like he was like djing naked in happy endings you know but you know you can't invent that shit you need to live it you know that's true very true and and basically people are focusing on bushwick birkin he's bad but i don't think wall like that is sort of just an engine for his entire like aesthetic world and he always he like dressing his friends who are like queer musicians or they're like or they're designers or they're artists or they're just like neighborhood like people you know so in that sense you can't invent that community unless you have it and unless you have building it for a really long time and the good the good way to think about

The world he's building is the exact opposite of aspiration or traditional luxury, where you have, like, something at the top of the pyramid, you know, like a designer or a, like, celebrity, you know, whatever, art director or something, and everything trickles down, and you go and you buy Balenciaga keychain, and you're, like, so fucking cool, you know? But then, Elfar, he created this, like, what he did by pre-ordering the bag. was like oh everyone can have it because it's not for you it's for everyone that's his tagline no it's brilliant i mean his whole approach with that bag specifically is brilliant i do think that it probably took him a long time to get to that point not as a designer but maybe as a business person to understand like that's what is going to like get his message and his story out to the most people is to make something democratic and then make it available uh widely widely And I think from that standpoint, it's incredible. And I think it will help his brand last longer. And he made so much money in that 24, 48 hours more than, you know, that he made in years before. But what the point is, who doesn't know about Telfer can buy that bag as a badge, as a symbol, you know, as a badge of like being cool, being plugged in. But then there are people who go next layer and next layer and next layer deeper into that reverse pyramid, so to speak, and who know that he's also a DJ and who know his crowd. So in that sense, for me, the back is just like the surface level. And you can operate to that level. That's fine. But you can also get by into his world, the music he listens to. The people he hangs out with, the artists he surrounds himself with, and that Lower East Side or whatever neighbor, Queens neighborhood vibe. Yeah, and that's always where the more interesting stuff is. You know what I mean? I think that that's the thing with hopefully the idea is if you get past the product, there's something more interesting there. And that's really what we're talking about. Totally. Do you have the Telfar bag yourself, Ana?

I don't, unfortunately. She's way down with her Balenciaga and Louis. She doesn't have room in the closet. Maybe Santa Claus will bring one this year. What do you think about this? I want to hear about this. So I'm not so basic to own Cartier, but I'm not above wearing a Cartier knockoff. A Cartier knockoff what, though? Oh, it's like, is that right? It's that nail bracelet. Oh, yes. I love the nail. I love the nail. But it looks like it for those who don't have discerning eye. But it actually is different. And I bought it in Madrid in some stores. So see, there is a story that has nothing to do with Cartier. So I like it more than I would like original Cartier. And how much did you spend on it? What? How much money did you spend on it? 25 euros okay yeah so you have a story you you you know you feel like you may have outsmarted the house of cartier because it looks pretty good it looks good enough and it's more interesting you're no long you know you would rather have something that is not real or bootleg than the real thing because it makes you different I mean, personally, me, I'm only rock and reel designer on this side. But, like, to each their own. You know what I'm saying? I got four love bracelets on the right wrist and three nails on the left wrist. But that's just – that's some light shit for a Tuesday. You know what I'm saying? That's not even the weekend. But that is interesting. But, I mean, I think that if it means something to you, then I'm happy that you have it. Yeah. I like that. I mean, are poor peasants like me, you know? Exactly. I mean, look, I feel for you. I cannot relate, but I really do feel for you. Yeah, go ahead. When does the book drop? When does the book come out? The book drops October 27th. Very soon. Is it going to be available where all books are sold? Pre-orders are all sold out. It's already in the second edition.

But seriously, it was number one in new releases in business marketing on Amazon before it was released. That's some big shit, right? That's some big shit right there. You're going to be on a lot of podcasts in this month, aren't you? no one listens to this one because no i'm never going to be invited to any other podcast no no no no no you you are a great podcast guest if anyone doesn't like it it's only because of us but yeah you're but thousands and thousands of people will listen to this and you know judge you for sure they're going to buy my book which is titled the business of aspiration october 27th yeah they're going to line your pockets you're going to be having a large medium and small tell far bag by the end of this month Do you have any paper bag yourselves? Of course. I mean, I could fit in the large one even though I'm 6'9". I like them actually for other people, but I wouldn't carry something like that. It's cute for you. It's very cute. Ana, what is your favorite flavor of Haagen-Dazs ice cream? Oh my God, I don't even eat Haagen-Dazs ice cream. Because it's an American company? Did you know it was an American company? I knew that after I read it on your Twitter. No, you did not. Did you know before? I'm sure you did. No, I did know. But, you know, they have the essence and energy of a European chocolatier or cremerie, don't they? They're owned by General Mills. Of course, they don't anymore. 40 years ago, they probably did. I mean, that's what I thought about it. Yeah. So you don't even eat ice cream. Good for you. No, I don't. What about you? I'm a vanilla man. You're a vanilla? Yeah. You can't tell by looking at his bland ass. The subtle flavors of vanilla mustn't be masked by other things like...

chocolate or hazelnut. But you know what? We went to Rosetta on Saturday night here and there was rosemary ice cream. It's really good. What kind of ice cream? Rosemary. It's good. Trust me. I'm not an ice cream person. I'm actually not a food person. I'm sorry to disappoint you. So... You don't even, so no smoking cigarettes, no food. What are your, what are your vices? Cocaine? No. Don't lie. You foster animals. What's going on? Torture small animals. You step on guys. You step on people with shoes. Unknown man on the internet. No, I like, no. shopping is my wife i think the clothes are my wife this is like i think it's very 2016 but i think that clothes are my wife yeah clothes clothes being uh you know shopping for clothes that will never go out of style that's not 2016 that's that's that's going to be every year cigarette drugs marijuana alcohol Chrome hearts, fine automobile, yard work. The list goes on. Jason's got a lot of problems, which unfortunately we don't have time to unpack on this podcast. What are your vices, Chris? And also, why did you move to LA? First of all, my vices are exercise and I didn't move to LA. I'm coming back to New York in 2021. Oh, you are? Yes, I'm making the grand re-entrance. Alert the media, please. I'll expect a Cartier red carpet out front. Red carpet, yes. Photo opportunities, all of the above. Yes, exactly. My advice is, yeah, unfortunately at this point in my life, my advice only is exercise. So sometimes I do it twice a day. You do? That's amazing. Yeah, yeah. Him and I are going to be playing tennis in just a few hours, actually. And then you can comment on this podcast and my Eastern European accent. That's right. Yeah, look. And you can maybe actually imitate you with various degrees of success. Jason's actually pretty good. Oh, no, you're great. I got to say, I really like you as a podcast guest and just a person in general. I like your style. Thank you very much. And I like you guys too.

sometimes in person jason because i met chris once we were on a panel and chris didn't say a word because he was like silently he was mocking us all inside i'm not even yeah that sounds like the chris i know i guess a photo of me and him and the looks on our faces have you seen that photo chris yes it's a great photo we both look upset very judgmental looks on your face very judgmental that's very true we were like whatever you're selling they're not buying I mean, that's because we're two discerning customers. Yeah, that don't impress me much. Thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. And go cop the book. And where can they follow you on Instagram and Twitter, et cetera? You can find me by my last name, Angelic, A-N-D-J-E-L-I-C-A-A-A. I mean, it was like really dumb of me to create that, my handle, my last name, in a foreign country. So it's Angelic. AAA on Instagram, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, on whatever, Clubhouse. Do you guys go to Clubhouse? I don't fuck with Clubhouse. I went on it when it first started, but I have not really been back. Is it getting better? No, I'm like you. I'm not there. Is it getting better? No. Okay, yeah. So we will continue to not be on Clubhouse. Everyone on Clubhouse who listens to this show. our apologies but you know one day we'll be there once you guys you know clean it up clean that clubhouse everyone please don't call clubhouse keep clubbing keep clubbing motherfucker keep clubbing nerds um all right thank you so much for joining us we will talk to you soon uh everybody go buy the book there's a lot to learn uh and i know i'll be reading it we'll talk to you soon thank you so much guys it was a pleasure bye