095. - How To Dress Well

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... And podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Buongiorno, Signor Black. Buongiorno. What's up, bro? Hey, what's up, bro? Just a rare, like, later afternoon podcast with the boys. I had to, you know, in preparation for this podcast, to keep up with you and our esteemed guest, who we can introduce later, I had to actually leave Villa Carlotta and go get a Erwan Cococino. Oh, dear God, Chris. For what I've put you through, will you ever forgive me? It's not looking good, but delivery is not an option, so I had to get in the whip and make the trek all the way over to Beverly Boulevard. Actually, Erewhon delivery is an option. Yeah, but you know that Chino wouldn't travel well. It's like french fries, sweetie. You don't order those if you're a pro. For more than one reason. You know what I mean. I'm still dying to try this cocachino. We've got to do it soon. But I want to go there and figure out what exactly is in it, what it's supposed to taste like, so then I can deconstruct it and biohack my own version of it. You know what I mean? TJ in the food lab. Well, that's what I was actually saying today. I was thinking to myself, TJ needs to learn how to make this for me. But it does require... Just because of how much money it costs? No, but it ain't tricking if you got it, player. No, it's more... I do have $11. It's more... I would just love to see what Chef TJ could cook up in the lab for me. But the issue I have... or the issue that you would have i think is the you don't have an espresso machine that's true i would have to buy one or maybe santa claus will bring one i think it's probably worth it like i think three to four thousand and then you can just get the plumbing you know done for an extra thousand and probably it's worth it well yeah if you order a coco chino every day for a year that that comes out to four thousand

$4,015. Not counting gratuity, but people out of Erewhon don't need gratuity. So yeah, it's about... It's about the same. Yeah, you'll be making money after a year. And I would guess that Chef TJ would be able to use a sicker bean than they might be using at Air One. Oh, I mean, a much sicker bean. I feel like they're probably cheaping out on the old beans because they're spending the money on the MC2 oil and the coconut crema. Well, I mean, Air One, I think they wouldn't. The problem is they have the money to spend on it. But they wouldn't know a good bean if it bit him in the rear. That's what I'm saying. Wow. Shots fucking fired. Chef TJ, come up your fucking neck. I'm not afraid to say that. So, yeah, this is a weird late afternoon pod. I actually did a rare lunch eating today. Wow. Did you hit a local hot spot? I went to a local spot to have some sidewalk tacos and mulitas. And huaraches. This is a TJ food report. I had a little lunch meeting with my friend Olivia, and we went to this spot. It's the Home Depot parking lot where the 5 and the 110 meet just right by Dodger Stadium. There's a woman there who sells. She's got a little sidewalk cart set up. The chicken tinga is especial. And is it hitting? It was hitting, yeah. Handmade tortillas for the tacos and the huaraches. I had a very refreshing cucumber beverage, a little chela. It was good. Wow, I love when TJ has lunch. The thing is, although we don't eat lunch anymore, I had lunch today too, actually, now that I think about it. Oh, shoot. Because I was too busy this morning to get a protein-packed smoothie post-pump, so I had to rush home. Who even are we?

I'm just too hungry. I can't make it through the day. So I luckily thank you to our friends over at Sweetgreen, the salad artists. I was able to. Shout out to Nate for plugging Chris's cashew account up. He got the cashew bucks up, going all the way up, baby. So I was able to. That's why I was able to afford the Coco Chinos. That lunch was free. Thank you, Sweetgreen. I ordered the tofu plate, and it was very good. You had a very good tofu plate. So you were able to have lunch but still have it be guilt-free. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, Jason. I feel nothing. But it felt weird because I was having lunch with somebody who is, compared to me, a very tiny human being. She probably weighs half of what I weigh and probably is closer to half my height than not. She was like, yeah, I was so crazy. I knew I was going to go eat a bunch of tacos, so I actually didn't even eat breakfast this morning. I was like, I am taller than LeBron James, and I don't eat breakfast or lunch unless it's a weekend. What does that say about me? Nothing good. Body dysmorphia and eating disorder, which we've covered on this podcast relentlessly, actually. Next question. Next question. What else is going on, family? You know, it's starting to cool down just a wee bit. I know. I noticed that later on this week, a low is going to be dipping down into 49 on like next weekend. We need to gas up the jet then head to Barbados. But now I'm like, if I'm going to be cold weather hive, then should I just go to New York? Well, Jason, Casa de Black is still available for long and short-term leases. Because we work together, I could offer you a small discount. Do I have to write a story about your apartment in order to get that? Yeah, you do, actually. Call Architectural Digest. If it doesn't work, I have some backups and we can talk about it. Look, I don't know if AD is going to go for it, but...

Wait, I'm sorry. This apartment is a rental and it has one bedroom? I'm sorry. We're not going to be able to do that. Yeah, there's a few different DJ publications that I might be able to secure. Do you think MixMag wants to know where DJ TJ lays his head in New York City? Yeah, MixMag might be interested in some of your kitchenette built-ins. I'm sure they would. Because I think the built-ins would work well for a seated DJ set, which is my favorite kind. And this is bespoke, is it not? I mean, everything we do is bespoke, baby. It's special shit. The content, the furniture, the clothing. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, there's a lot going on. I'll wait until our guest, Turnt Tom, comes on the pod. Yeah, our guest today is a longtime friend of both Jason and I. We call him Turnt Tom. You might know him as How to Dress Well, a pitchfork-approved musical artist. voice of an angel. His voice is almost too sweet. You know what I mean? It's almost too sweet because as a guy, he's pretty fucking sour. It's a little bit of a disconnect. Much like the ice creams of Ben and Jerry's, sometimes it is a little too sweet for my petite little palate. Funny enough, actually, separate from Tom, but I ran into... How long gone graduate Trevor last night, the day that his episode posted. Trevor McFedries from Lil Micaela Industries? Yes. DJ Skeet Skeet, a.k.a. Young Skeeter, was at Escuela, a new hot spot. Apparently, Jason, I told you this last night. I don't want to blow up the spot. I feel like you're about to blow up the spot. I'm going to blow up the spot. Squail on Saturday nights is apparently going the fuck off with some cool guys and hot chicks with margs spilling out into the street. Okay, so the same way... So you were telling me about this. I feel like this will scratch my itch that I have after watching various people in our networks having martini-laced kikis on the streets of Manhattan apparently every single night of the week.

Lots of fellow How Long Gone graduates, Hari Neff, Sam Heine, all these people, they're just wearing fabulous clothing. They're drinking martinis, partying. And I'm like, where does this happen in my life? But also, I'm starting to get used to a life not drinking. Well, don't get too used to it, sweetie, because Margs are on big CB. Because I was realizing earlier today, when the quarantine hit and I was really on swole and I was looking the best I've ever looked, I wasn't really doing that much differently. But the real kicker was I was not drinking at all. I wasn't a big drinker a year ago. Just cutting alcohol out completely versus just having a couple glasses of wine with dinner, it makes a bigger difference than you would think. Not that I would think, bitch. That's why I look like a fucking million bucks. That's why I'm the hottest Hollywood Chris, bro. But you would think for how sober you are, you would be more jacked up, ripped, and better. But some damage cannot be undone. I mean, that honestly is true. I did so much damage. The damage of Big Pharma. Big Pharma came for my body and it ravaged it. The Sacklers came for me and I'm going to be recovering. I might be recovering for the rest of my days, TJ. Yeah, Big Pharma turned your body into Tiffany Trump. Just a hot, stinky mess. Just four years ago, I looked like Tiffany Trump in a Herve Legere bandage dress saying I love gays walking down White Street in Tribeca. It's fucking crazy, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's not the only gay baiter on this podcast. That's true. That's true. Tiffany Trump, once again, the Trumps are stealing from me. You know what I mean? And I'm sick and fucking tired of it. At least be Donald or better. Don't send me the...

adopted daughter yeah yeah trump trump family stops stop swagger jacking chris done to death black stop stealing his motherfucking swagoo well i saw it speaking of stealing swagoo i saw just before we got on this podcast uh the hollywood reporter uh posted that aoc um is is pivoting to twitch oh no is it is it twitch yeah okay so so what is she going to be doing on twitch I guess she's going to be getting stuff out of her performative Telfar handbag and playing video games. She's going to pull the PS4 controller out of the pinche Telfar. Out of the pinche tell fart. No, I think she's literally playing video games to connect with a young audience, which I obviously think is stupid, but also maybe that's a good idea. Well, I mean, this could be bad for her career because everybody knows if you play video games long enough against somebody, you are going to call them the N-word. That's just what happens, and that's going to be bad for her. Jason! She's going to get pwned by a 12-year-old in South Dakota, and she's going to let a slur a spray. She's going to call somebody a bad word. I think AOC is a born leader in the future of politics, but I also think that video games really frustrate people to where they might act like someone besides themselves. Yeah, it can. We can talk to our special guest how to dress well about his relationship with the game Call of Duty. You're telling me that Turnt Tom would rather play video games with teenagers than twiddle the knobs on a vintage synth? Well, I'm saying get you a content creator that can do both. Tom is an ultimate concrete creator. There's a lot of cool musicians, DJs, electronic artists that I know in my own personal network, like Tom, you know. Call them out. Jacques Green. Let's name all the EDM celebrities that are gamers. They're poning every day. Bro.

Look, I know that some people might think we're whack or whatever, but there's a lot of things that are uncool in this world. Being into watches, being into cars, playing video games, those things are deeply uncool. You're always coming for watch familia. I like that. Because I can't afford one. Having a nice watch. having a nice watch don't worry jason i'm gonna get you one soon with this how long gone check but i i yeah i'm trying to i'm trying to simply wear a breitling just when i get bored but i just think that i think that having a nice watch is cool talking about watches is not cool the same thing as a car having a nice new car is cool talking about it not cool no one cares no one cares bro like yeah it's like telling somebody what happened in your dream it's cool for you and nobody else Exactly. Nothing is worse than that. I don't know if you saw just before we cut to turn Tom, but Mad Decent on Twitter were polling their followers asking if they should sign me. Sign you for what? To be a global sensation? The tweet said, should we sign done to death? That's all it said. So I don't know. But the response seems to be positive. So maybe Diplo is going to offer me a solo deal separate from the podcast, Jason. How does that make you feel? Bitch, if you get the mad decent chain before I do. Well, they know that you keep the Denmark chain tucked in the tank top, so they're not willing to bless you with the mad decent chain yet. I keep a lot of chains tucked. I keep the anchor.fm chain tucked. I'm willing to die for my anchor goons. There's a lot of old chains that I haven't pawned yet, you dig? All I have is the OVO. That's the only chain I have, so I'm willing to put a little more ice around my thick-ass neck. You know what I mean? I can hold it up now. Okay, well, we'll suss all this out with Turnt Tom, EDM celebrity Turnt Tom, Berlin dungeon artist. Yeah, you could catch him at a Uzbekistani basement.

You know what I'm saying? Playing some ferocious rape techno and licking ketamine off the bottom of a bathroom saw. You know the motherfucking vibes. If you're not puking out blue shit, if you still have both of your eyeballs in your skull, you ain't really rocking with us, dog. Oh, shit. It's true. Oh, my goodness. All right. Let's call turn Tom. Okay, bye. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. Head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and that are just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions, but how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. I'm listening on to Ableton. For some reason, there's some like...

ambient clicking. It could be cool. It might be experimental. Do not make a song out of this, Tom. Do not sample how long gone without talking to our publisher first. I know that you're used to it, but this is a podcast so you can turn off the click track. You can turn the metronome off. We don't have to keep... I know that you're at 160 BPMs right now with the stuff you're working on, but let's try to... We're just going to go off the grid. Think of it as a fretless bass. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, of course. So, Jeans, you're just going to have to record the FaceTime audio because I don't think those headphones are working for my rig. That's fine. Don't worry about it. We've already been recording, so it's all good. Tom, the fact that you don't have a full rig to record audio is insane to me. Can you tell us why? Well, believe it or not, I'm actually not in Los Angeles. Not at home. I'm in my parents' basement. Wow, sick. So have you jerked off there yet or are you kind of withholding? Are you jacking on Zoom? I hit. I hit, of course. I hit. I hit. So you're in. Don't do a Ray J reference when talking about just your own worm. Do not bring the hog out on FaceTime. It's not that kind of show. Oh yeah, you already know. Actually, I thought I had my camera off. Oops, Tom, minute two and you're already having a wank. Unbelievable. So this is looking like a pretty nice finished basement though. So you're over in... No, it's not. It's a bad house? It's an unfinished basement in a fine little condo thing that they... This is not like the house I grew up in or anything. It's just my folks where they live now. So you're in Colorado. You bet your ass. We're booling in Bollorado. We're booling in Boulder, baby. Your hair, Tom, I feel like I've seen you pretty recently, but your hair is looking very Boulder-esque right now. It's grazing those toned, toned shoulders. Yeah, boy, your head looked like a damn Nature Valley crunched oats and honey. My shit's more RX bar than that.

He's got egg whites in that shit, bro. You already know. Thank you for that, Chris. I saw you in September, so it has been a few months more length. What are you going for here? Are you going for Appalachian Trail like I'm lost, or are you going for, you know? He goes to the salon and says, make me look lost. Take me to the trail. Do you pull it back into a Tom Cruise-style samurai bun? I take it up into a bun. If I'm working out, I take it up into a bun. If I'm hooping, you already know. What basketball star, NBA player, hairstyle do you resemble the most? Are you a Ginobili ass? No. I mean, you know, I play ball at the club in L.A., Los Angeles Athletic Club. Before COVID, of course. Hey, it's okay. We're a super spreader podcast. Tom, the real heads are still playing, so you sound soft. I'd love to have a squad that was fearlessly hooping, but alas, all my friends are... Tom, I guess your invite got lost in the mail, but if you go to DiCaprio's house on Sundays at 2, they do rapid tests before you walk in, so it's you, Clooney, kind of the whole squad. Yeah, they can't really play with me, bro. I'll see what I can do. I might be able to finish. Chris, they can't dress with Tom. They can't hoop with Tom. They can't rock with me. They can't really rock like Tommy's doing. Chris, to answer your question, when I was in Berlin like four years ago, and I was eating at a restaurant that I really like, and the owner is this kind of like... He looks like a tall, skinny, humanoid lion. Yeah, this sounds cool. We did the math when you said Berlin. Please continue. Yeah, yeah. And so I saw that guy and I was like, what a legend. He owns this beautiful little restaurant, has beautiful flowing shock white hair. He's probably in his late 60s.

at that juncture i was like you know what i'm gonna go for it i'm gonna grow my hair long i live in la now i can do this kind of you know so did you so you haven't always had long hair right i had long hair in high school and then in college i you know i got experimental with it and i had to cut it short of course because because you were your theses were too long and it just like getting in the way It was either the hair or the feces. I couldn't really keep them. Exactly. Couldn't keep them both. Look, one of you guys can be long, and I got to go with the feces. Yeah, I was like, one of you guys got to be long, and it's going to be the Blanchard and Levinas piece on poetry. I'm sorry. And, Tom, I'm already lost. You said feces? That's plural for thesis, Jason. Ah, yes. Thanks for explaining that to me, a guy who just said theses. I was going to say, Chris is saying that now. He's going to ask you to delete. No, I did that on purpose, guys. I'm a comedian. It was on purpose. It was a prank, bro. It was a prank. Fuck you guys. Sorry, Tom. I can't be a successful musician, a basketball player, and a college graduate. I can only podcast. Theses came straight out of Conyers, bro. Don't come for Conyers, Tom. We're 10 minutes into this fucking podcast, Tom. I'll hang up on you. I'm already liking... Okay, so Tom's in Boulder. Tom is the only thing spicy in Colorado right now, which is what I like to hear. That's true, that's true. Spicier than the local green chili. Spicier than the local hatches. I always thought the green chili was more local to Santa Fe, New Mexico, but is it also very popular in Boulder? Yeah, very much so. I mean, I think that that kind of Mexican cuisine, New Mexican Santa Fe cuisine, is very much what populated the Boulder Mexican restaurant scene as well. But Boulder is a pretty cool vibe, from what I've been told. Has people been lying to me, Tom? I don't have an objective take on it, because I grew up here, so I think it sucks. I have a friend from New York who literally just moved here, so it's like... If that's happening, I'm like, for what purpose to escape the libtards or like what? No, I think it was kind of like to escape New York. New York's pretty twisted right now, obviously. Just like you escape New York, man. Yeah, but I came to a place that is equally as twisted. Boulder. Are there masks being worn in Boulder or people still just like wearing Bernie signs as face coverings? Honestly, actually, Loki, on that topic, it's a bit dark. Like there's a.

there was a big like big whatever it's like 20 people but there was like a trump rally on the corner of 28th and pearl which is like i know it well yeah you know that's where the first chipotle was that's where target's at that's where the whole foods is at so that's your that's your dime square i actually was listening to the to the pod a couple days ago and i was like Damn, I'm not going to really have any hot Dime Square Erewhon takes for the pods. But I guess I do. Dime Square Boulder, 28th and Pearl. Wow. So there's 20 Trumpers. What's the vibe? How many teeth do they have? Is it an inbred feeling or is it like an educated, are they toting guns? No visible guns. Definitely not like a, definitely not a, I mean, they looked low-key kind of like bougie. They had nice SUVs and shit. This sounds like my homeland of Orange County. Yeah, I think it's a similar demo. We just had the Beach Boys Trump rally down in Newport. Yeah, not the Beach Boys, bro. Don't even say it. Do you like any Beach Boys music, Tom? Did you ever smoke that Wiz Khalifa kush and listen to pet sounds? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I get gassed up in Rock Pet Sounds when I was in college for sure. It's not a bad little vibe. There's worse things to bump. I never went through a Beach Boys phase. I mean, I like it, but I never listened to Pet Sounds and had my life changed. Oh, I did. I did. I also do probably three, four days out of every year. I have a big revisit session. It just feels like it's part of life. I didn't know you actually listened to music where instruments were involved. This is life changing. I think we finally found after at least five plus years of friendship, Tom and I never listened to the same music in the history of that relationship. But maybe the Beach Boys is our common ground because you don't even like the Smiths, right? No, I love the Smiths.

no no i love the smiths okay okay cool so we're making this podcast is groundbreaking for many reasons bridges bridges right here y'all because because sometimes like i think i've told this i don't know if i've told this story in the podcast before but tom and i had a legendary link up when we were both in barcelona um he was on tour alone like a complete psychopath and i was there saying a luxury hotel i was there staying in a luxury hotel working with the local football team um And we hit – And you mean – just for clarification, you're talking about soccer, football. Yes, football. Not the Denver Broncos style football. Not the Denver Broncos. And Tom and I had a lovely evening together at Barbrook Hall, one of my – both of our local favorites. And we talked about music for a solid hour. And you guys know this podcast. I'm pretty plugged in to what's going on. I'd like to think I know what's going on. Yeah, you know. I'm pretty plugged in. I know about Wilco. I know about Tweety Solo stuff. Tom, talk to me. Have you guys checked out this gal, Phoebe Bridges? New music coming out of Echo Park, I think. Tom and I talked about music for a solid hour over a piece of the thickest octopus I've ever seen. And he literally did not mention, he probably mentioned 20 artists and I had not heard of a single one of them. All right, well, let's start with the start. Because first of all, I know a lot more about experimental electronic music than you do, Chris. And when I talk to Tom, the same thing happens to me. So that's just to really drive things home. But more importantly, what is the diameter width of this octopus in question? Tom, it was thicky, boy. Honestly, this octopus was too. Yeah, I go deep. You're a freak. You wouldn't even deep throat the puss, bro. It's too much. Don't call it the puss. I'm sorry, dude. It was so crazy. Yeah, dude, it was too wild. It was too wild. They were fucking with us for sure. Chris, you remember who was there, though?

Ashton Kuchar, probably, if the octopus was that big. One of the guys from Interpol. Yeah, Carlos was there, bro. No, it wasn't Carlos. It was Daniel. He lives there. He has an apartment in Barcelona. Look, Carlos is Carlos, all right? Carlos be Carlos. Carlos is still doing bumps out of the coke he keeps in his holster. Nice. Life has changed. But, Tom. How did you become such a freak? Was there a point in your life where you listened to normal music with guitars and choruses and stuff? I mean, Chris, this is the thing. Some of us choose to evolve our tastes over time. We don't just lock it in at 2001, 2002 and call it a fucking life. Okay, well then, but Chris wants to know maybe, are you able to pinpoint the exact turning point in your life where you went from being a normal fella to an absolute balls to the wall? freak boy freak boy i mean to be fair i've always kind of had like a uh if you're into it i'm i'm out of it kind of ethos um so like even when i was like you know 15 and started my first band or whatever we were like you know we listened to like the used and blood brothers before people like fucked up that not the blood brothers that we do not talk about that man that's a bridge too far so were you we can do tom were you were you a young did you have like uh like anarchist like early anarchist vibes when you were younger um no you were like blowing stuff up Doing phone freaking pranks. Freeing animals from prisons. There was definitely a cool eco-terrorism vibe in Colorado when I was there. That's why I was mentioning that. Jason's familiar with that sect of eco-terrorists. He flirts with it on the Discord. The Boulder chapter put in some good work for us. Yeah, you already know. I mean, guys, those monkeys need to roam free. And I think that's something we can all agree on. Yeah, you already know.

Take him to the gallery and let him go. So at 15, you're listening to Kelly Osbourne's ex-boyfriend play Warped Tour Pop Pop. Cut to 20 years later, and I see you in an international city touring alone, literally playing raves with a keyboard. How does a guy get there? Yeah, Tom, I think used at 15 is not cool enough for you as a person. It's shocking. Can you go back in time and do better, please? Yeah, yeah. I need to rebuild my teenage apocrypha. My friend Mike Silver, who you both know, I believe, or Jason does, he'll always be like, oh, yeah, I was really into whatever, that Cocteau Twins 7-inch when I was 11. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's me. That wasn't me. That's not me, man. So he's somebody that is able to trump you in that regard then? For sure. For sure. Well, did you ever listen to No Effects? That's a real question. Um, I listened to no effects only briefly and only to fit in when I, uh, started at a new high school. Well, I just want to go on record that no effects does rock. Uh, but I just, I just wanted to, Chris, I got something to tell you right now. I was in a band. I was in a band when I was 15. Okay. We played a full cover of the 30 minute no effects song. The decline. Wow. That's not a song, Tom. That is a masterpiece. That's an EP. Tom, wow. It's not a song, bro. It's an opera. It's a movie. I just changed my whole opinion about you, Tom, actually. It's not a song, bro. That's a Shakespearean. A Shakespearean? When you were in a band at 15 playing 30-minute no-effects covers, was your beautiful voice making an appearance or were you just playing the guitar? That's actually a good question. i always sang i always sang in bands but i also screamed a lot like that band was like our our live affect was i would scream until i would puke and it felt like you know a flex to puke on stage at the time i learned that actually from the singer of the used i remember seeing him do it for the first time very cathartic um very cathartic i i'm i'm impressed by the dedication but then so when you would when you would sing

Sang so hard that your boy pukes on stage. Was there like a pre-concert meal? Or is there like a certain thing that you would eat so when you puked it looked cooler? I mean, at that point in my life, to be fair, at that point in my life, the pre-concert meal was... Mostly ecstasy. Wow. So you were doing – and not a surprise to anyone that's familiar with your work. You were ingesting mind-altering substances prepubescent almost. Yeah. No, definitely prepubescent for sure. So you didn't even have any hair on those nuts and you were taking ketamine in Colorado? Yeah, precisely, in fact. No wonder you're so twisted. It all makes sense now. I mean, bro, the big vibe when I was like – Oh, God. This is on the podcast. When I was like 11 was my bad kid friend Travis would let us huff brake cleaner at his dad's garage. Who amongst us hasn't done something like that, though, you know? I haven't, but I will say that Travis is the name of every bad guy in the crew. For sure. I would like to say. I have to say, though, Travis was such an incredible skateboarder. It was unreal. Was he hot? Uh, no. No. Well, at least he had skateboarding. Um, you know, is he, does he, did he take over his dad's garage or did he become a person of worth? No, Travis got beaten up. I remember actually, dude, this is so twisted. So Travis lived in like Longmont, Colorado and he, he like talked shit to some kids and they beat him up really badly. And his parents sent him to a boarding school in Washington state. Never saw him again. Well, that means Travis is probably rich now with a hot wife and two kids. Nah, bro. He was not a bougie kid. It was pretty rough. Damn, not Washington State. My hunch would be Travis lives in Greeley and works, if he's lucky, works in a managerial position at the meatpacking plant. Well, Tom, I mean, it sounds like to me if you didn't have those beautiful pipes, that might be your fate. Am I wrong? That's actually interesting. Thank God Jesus Christ himself made Tom such a pipe man.

yeah thanks thank the lord for for blessing me but um no i was always able to dodge trouble you know that's like my special technique is is like i could like talk shit to the kids and then they'd be like hey we're gonna beat you up and i'd be like no actually what i was saying was funny and and you should you know have a little sense of humor about yourself and they'd be like we like this little guy damn and then and then you would maybe sing them a little little you take them on a little harmonic ride with those pipes and they'll be like never mind this is this man is a national treasure I'd be like, let me burn you guys. Let me put, put a mini disc together for you guys with some experimental tunes. But I did notice, I did notice on, on the worldwide web though, it is, isn't it the, is it the 10th anniversary of your, of your breakout album? That's true, man. Yeah. I mean the 10th anniversary, it was like kind of announced a little early because the record came out, my record love remains came out over the course of like, 2009, 2010, released first as EPs, then collected as an LP. What label is this on? Let's get to the business. That's what I'm saying. It was first released by a small California-based label called Lessee Records, which is now defunct, but did the first Neon Indian record, did some other semi... I just tasted sparks in the back of my throat. Continue. Oh, my God. Yeah, but then it came out... proper worldwide release on triangle records later in 2010 so did you get a little upstream deal or did you not have a deal with that label in california that's correct yeah it was like they gave me a thousand bucks to to make a thousand copies or something for california what was this put out was this put out on cdr or just a classic disc maker situation i mean that the that label did like vinyl they did cds etc but when i was living in i was living in cologne in germany in 2008 9 and i uh i was making little like three inch cdrs so cool and sending them around the world to people which was so bizarre i go to the where were they hearing were you they were asking for them because of like your myspace or something or was it like yeah my blog spot i had like a order button and it would just literally was like send me your address via email and paypal is like early paypal days

Damn, this is cool. What was the blog spot? Was it howtodresswell.blogspot.com? That's correct. It's still up. Yeah. Cool. I didn't know that. That's very cool. Yeah, bro, that's literally how it all started was just posting a song every couple days and then being like, okay, those six songs are a new EP. I did six or seven EPs in six months in a really feverish period. And were you living alone in Cologne? Yeah. I was living alone at that time. Were you making the music alone or did you have some partners that would come lay down some pedal steel for you? No, this was... Sorry, Chris. There is no pedal steel on my early noise home recordings. God damn it. Jason, I said I didn't want to book this guest. I told you I didn't want to have this guy. Tom, just play ball. Just entertain the guy. Yeah, I'm actually playing a vintage guitar that once belonged to Jeff. So we were opening for Ryan Adams. First of all, I am a Tweety stan, but not that bad of a Tweety stan. I don't think I've ever heard a Ryan Adams song. Well, you're missing out. Good for you. I think that your Tweety references are because you lived in Chicago, and that is a reference point for you. Yeah. I think it's just so funny to make fun of you for listening to Jeff Tweety's music. That also is funny. I agree. Especially considering the fun pun of how often Chris spends on the Twitter application. Oh, nice. I don't like that joke that much, but that's a helpful connection. Well, Jason tries, Tom, and sometimes he fails. So you're living in Germany. It's a real bad joke. I get that. Hold on. You're living in Germany, and are you making this music alone in your crib, or did you have a little stew? No, I was just working at the crib. So what kind of gear are we working with at this time? What do we have in the lab? In the lab is a Tascam digital 8-track, a Shure SM58 microphone, Audacity on an old MacBook, and a keyboard from the German Kmart. Okay, so there's no vintage Martin acoustic at all? No, no, sir.

No, sir. Just want to make sure. But you can play guitar, right? Yeah, yeah, I play guitar. Not well. Can you play every instrument, though, or are you a little bit of a – you can fake it all, right? Yeah, I can play a little keys. I mean, I'm not by any measure a real musician. Other than I sing beautifully. You do, but that's God's gift. Yeah, you sing like R&B is the dream, but you can't slap the little four-stringer like TJ, though. We know that, right? Yeah, TJ advances himself a man who can slap at the base. He thinks he's fleet. Yeah. So you're selling and sending mini-discs, mini-CDRs to your versioning global audience. Yeah. And then did it take off? Is this like the hype M era? This is Bandcamp 1.0. Is this like the hype M era where a song goes viral or something like that and then it's like off to the races? Yeah. I mean, it was definitely the hype era. It was like the blog era. So it was, it was way less like, um, about like, I don't know, virality than it was about like properly speaking community. Like there were like 10 or 15 blogs that I both read and commented on. And then I started sharing my music with those blogs and people would be like, yo, this guy makes really cool music. Like let's send it around. And literally off those blogs, you know, it got from there to the New Yorker, I think was the first thing to comment on my music more broadly at a higher level. Damn, Tom went straight from the gutter of Colorado to the gutter of Germany to the liberal media elite choice publication? No, you mistold the story. I went from like the liberal bastion college town of Boulder, Colorado to Cologne, which is the, you know, the like. the queerest place in Germany outside of the Berlin nightclubs. Um, and from there straight to the, to the tote bag of the world. America's, America's tote bag. Wow. That's so after, did something like actually like go off after the New Yorker thing or was it still like a slow climb? Um, how long until the all birds deal came through is what we want to know.

Yeah, I mean, so, like, you know, it's funny. Like, it went from The New Yorker to, like, you know, Pitchfork to The New York Times and beyond or whatever. A darling. Yeah, pretty quickly. At the time, were you able to understand the, I guess, the size of that? Like, what was The New Yorker to you in 2007 or 2008? Was this, like, a crazy deal or were you like, I don't know? No, no. So the odd thing is that obviously the kind of like texture of social reality, social media reality has changed so much now because when I was being written about in the New Yorker, to my mind, the New Yorker was like fucking amazing, like untouchable at this institutional level that I couldn't possibly reach. And then it hit the Internet. But because this is like before Instagram, before really Twitter, even like I had a Twitter, but I didn't use it. I'd write like, I'd write like, yo, to like one of my friends on Twitter. Is this thing on? Yeah, exactly. And so it was so bizarre, because like, on the one hand, I was like landing in these, you know, this kind of rarefied critical space, but then it didn't really echo through my life at all. I mean, I was also at the same time, I was like, working at a as like a scientific research assistant for the Institute for um, the, like the, the, the Institute for contemporary theories of knowledge at the university there. So it was like, I just, I just felt, I just fell asleep. Continue. Yeah. So it was this very bizarre thing. I mean, you know, like one of the things I'm, I'm, I'm doing this thing in, in, uh, I think we're going to launch it next month. This, like we're doing it through Patreon, which. you know, whatever, say what you will about Patreon, but it's not going to be like a fan club. It's going to be this like every month I'm, I'm doing a program basically. So every month we're going to release like, you know, music that I haven't been able to release from like past art installations or things like that. Things that I couldn't release because of formerly like restrictive label contracts or, um, sharing different like kinds of artworks, uh, different like glimpses into the record making process for my next record, which Chris will be happy to know has a lot of guitar on it.

oh hell yeah did you hire did somebody from the national come in and play that or like how did it work no bro i'm just strumming i'm out here strumming wow i could have put you in touch with some guys but next time think of me yeah yeah i will i want to get that uh i want to get no caps guitar player on it that is a cool idea um he likes that yeah but so like we're going to talk about this in in the patreon like the world has changed like in such an insanely decisive way so it was like this really weird experience where like my shit was like popping off on these platforms and it like didn't yield that much i mean obviously yielded like the kind of foundations for my whole career or whatever but there wasn't a clear roi no i mean it's weird like the the most money i've ever made in my career were at periods where i was receiving the least critical attention Was that because the Subaru commercial, you know, those can't be planned for, Tom? Yeah, it's kind of that. It's also kind of like if you're a critical dandy, especially if you're a critical dandy and viewed as like an outsider, like somebody making eccentric work or whatever, like you're not brand safe anymore, baby. So you're not going to be cashing those fucking, you know, those crispy chicken nuggets checks. Did you? That is unfortunate. But who would you say, just to situate our listeners, who was the... Who was in your class in that pitch? First of all, what's the Pitchfork score, first of all? I have no idea. Well, you need to look it up right now because you're saying it, not me. So let's look up the Pitchfork score. I see the laptop, Tom. So who were your contemporaries at the time? Who were you touring with or playing with? Who was the squad? I mean, it was more like the artists that – the interesting thing to me was this is the first time in my life where I started to develop these parasocial and then eventually proper friendships with, um, artists that I really fucked with. So that was like extremely sick. Like, you know, like I remember getting like, you know, a DM on my space from, you know, my now, like, you know, now friends of mine and being like, yo, cool record. And I'd be like, Oh my God, I've been listening to this dude's record for the last like six months straight. And he just messaged me cool record. Like it was pretty, it was pretty kind of like,

That was the stuff that was really cool to me. At the time, I didn't really know what a pitchfork score would mean, to be honest. What did you say back to Kid Cudi then? When Cudi hit me, I said, bro, I always got you if you need someone to talk to, bro. That's fucking swag. You actually said, bro, I heard you're holding liquid cocaine. I've never seen that before. Can you let me get some? I forgot about liquid cocaine. I want to get back to this new form of media that you are creating here. So you said you're creating a program. What do you mean by that exactly? Well, it's going to be on Patreon. It's subscription. And it's on, I think, either next week or in early November. We're going to release the details around this. But basically, I put together this kind of perspective calendar for 2020-2021. Um, and each month there's like a piece of music or art. Um, and then this kind of like writing practice. Cause I'm also like, you know, another thing that, you know, I bite off more than I can chew always in life, but I'm also writing this like book project for a press that I'm really excited about. Kind of like when I got that New Yorker post, when I like had a meeting with my now prospective agent at this. at this press, I was like, Oh my God, I'm going to put out a book with this press. This is so fire. Tom, Tom, no one will understand what the book is about, but if you could give us an overview, that would be nice. Well, I will in a, I will in a second, but let me, let me finish the, let me finish the calendar chat. Cause like, just to give you an example of like what's going to happen month to month in this, like, um, so for November, the first month of the program in 2017, I think you were there James. Actually, I did this like multi-channel. audiovisual installation around this document that's called We Are All Very Anxious. It's like a sort of open theoretical text from people like Mark Fisher and some other philosophers who were working under this thing called the Institute for Precarious Consciousness. So I made this art installation, sound installation around it. I also worked with the Australian digital artist Jason Abair on it and my friend Alexander Kleeman.

who's a novelist, lives in New York. She wrote this amazing book called You Too Can Have a Body Like Mine. Chris, you probably know. She probably stomps in your ground. I'm familiar with that. Chris is familiar with Big Al. Yeah, low-key Alex has been a friend of mine since high school because she's also from Boulder, baby. Let's go. I love when Tom has old friends. Sorry, all those words you just said sounded like a brain-dead t-shirt, so I'm reeling. No, come on, man. Come on. You at least can know that that's more Boop Boys level than brain-dead. Maybe you haven't checked out the most recent brain dread drop on hypebeast.com. That's your point. Fact. Good point. So I'm like remixing, like mixing the music that I made for this eight channel installation, mixing it down as like an EP. And then also writing this essay called We Are All Very Anxious in 2020. And then additionally, during the month in November, we're going to have a conversation on Discord, like this, like an audio conversation. Don't compare Discord to the art of podcasting. So you'll be using the failing Discord platform? Carry on. Yeah, Alex Kleeman and I think friend of the pod, Sean Monaghan, and I are going to have a conversation about like... global networks and how they produce anxiety um so each month there's some kind of like you know like some some there's a lot of content like that there's a lot of stuff for for a high level thinker to sink their teeth into so we're getting we're getting music we're getting writings we're getting happenings even in the in the digital space we're getting a full a full content a full content menu are you looking for a them jeans remix just let me know yeah i am i am i'm actually i'm looking to get a them jeans a crookers do not do not we can get you we recently listened to a them jeans xx edit and it's still slap let me tell you damn

Yeah, come check me out. I'm sure it hits. I bet if you threw a triple X verse on there, it'd be a... Now we're cooking with gas, baby. That's going to be my new gray album. I'm going to do XX and the XX Tentacion. It's going to be the new Jay-Z Melancholy Infinite Sadness. That's a great idea. Excuse me? Yeah, somebody mashed up Jay-Z with the Smashing Pumpkins and made the best, worst album artwork I've ever seen. What is it called? I don't even know what it's called. I forgot what Jay-Z album it is, but it's like Marcy Projects and the Infinite Sadness, I think. And it's just a whole album of Smashing Pumpkins and Jay-Z mashies, which is... So sad. So sad. It both elated me and depressed me at the same time. The artwork, somebody painstakingly recreated Jay-Z's face in this artwork. It's not a hack job of art. It's only a hack job of music. Yeah, they spent more time on the artwork than the music itself, I'm assuming. To be fair, I did not listen to music, and I'm sure Jason didn't either. So, Tom, what are your thoughts on Patreon as a service? I know you let it spray with a little apprehension, maybe because you've heard us talk down on it, but, you know. I actually haven't heard you talk down on it. Just everyone else in the world. You know, I mean, I, I have like worries about this, the model, like in two different directions about this kind of neo patronage model. I think on the one hand, so it creates two possible situations, both of which I think are like lame or worse, like fucking really bad. Not much is worse than lame, but I'll, I'll try to use my imagination. Well, so one of the ways that it figures things is kind of like fans vis-a-vis artists. And like, I should always say, I mean, I think that this is clear, but I think it isn't clear. It's so weird. You see it on Twitter, like people standing like artists with 4,000 followers, but like Zed has fans and like Harry Styles has fans. Now we're talking. But I do not have fans. You know what I mean? Like I have people who support me.

and in a community i think this is i like where your head's at tom yeah some people want to be fans you know what i mean like they identify as fans versus yeah so tom you don't you don't think you have real fan fans i think i think i would disagree with that i think the music no no i i think he doesn't want to call him that yeah i think i do but i just don't think it's like i think that the fandom is just different than like i think there's a collapse where it's like it's just important to note that Harry Styles has fans in a different way than I do. So you don't remember me waiting outside the back door of Mercury Lounge with my vinyl waiting to get signed as you came off stage? I remember that vividly. The first time we met, actually. You were so young and so innocent. I did give you a bump, though. Don't forget that. Tom, you've heard... We went straight to lit. We went to lit for the after party. Zed's Clarity, though. Write a song like that and then you'll get something called a fan, alright? yeah exactly i'm trying my best but i think you do have a fan so so what is the difference between somebody who is a real honest to goodness fan and then somebody who supports you as an artist is there like a little bit of feeling bad for the person or just like i really like what they're doing or no i guess what i mean to say is that like does it involve sex no no no what i mean to say is that like i it can so here's here's here's what i mean to say is that like i've learned in my 10 years doing music like all over the world like you know i've had this insane fucking absolute accidental career and i've played shows everywhere in the world it's been fucking amazing you've been pimping all over the world for over 10 years now you are beautiful you're popping in many countries that i can't pronounce and place on a map um women with their own condominiums type shit you know um no no yeah the light bill is paid on time the car note is already taken care of these are independent women yes but what i mean to say is that like i have just learned in the 10 years that i've been doing it that like i'm if i'm doing something creative if i'm thinking something it means that it's like a signal out in reality and there's a shitload of other people who are also

picking up on that signal like i think i think that creative signals kind of like circulate like the weather you know what i mean it's not like i'm like some like stroke of genius type artist i think that i'll agree with i i no i think of myself i like produce a signal because i'm picking up signals and then like a thousand people in riga come out and the latvians are picking up on the signal and then i go to manila and there's 200 kids in manila You know, who are picking up on the signal. I think in the agency world, we call this the zeitgeist. Would you disagree? Okay. Yeah. And in my world, I would call this the 5G network available now on T-Mobile. Ah, yes, yes. Well, we know Tom. QAnon, Tom. We'll get into that later. But why do you say it like that, bro? Why can't you just pronounce it normal? Because it's a lot more fun to do it that way. When Chris, you know, quote unquote. says it wrong on purpose you know it's a false flag that he's signaling i know he's just putting it out there he's sending out a signal too but yeah so so here's what i would say like there's the the fans vis-a-vis artist thing which i think is lame and then i also think that the like the logic of patronage is lame where they're like work you know like i've paid for you now work artist like that's a dark zone like i think that it treats i think in a way like it treats the artist as kind of like an an extractable resource. The artist is like a mine. It has a little bit of a busker energy of the acoustic guitar case opened up on the subway platform. I have heard Tom playing Wonderwall in the acoustic at the tube station before, so don't let him tell you. But I mean, I don't know. I don't even know that I could sing a verse to Wonderwall, so don't even... Well, let me know. I can come in and cut my vocal, Tom, whatever. Yeah, I got you. But you probably know more of the origins of patronage than I would. I think it could be rooted more in just literally supporting the arts because you believe in them, not because you want to fuck Harry Styles, but because you...

believe that what Tom is doing is important. The origin of patronage is like royal exploitation. Right? Like the king just having power and money. Okay, what about the second iteration then? Second time around. No, but this is what I'm saying. I don't think it's necessarily evil. I just think it's kind of lame. So I'm much more interested with this Patreon thing of being like, yo, this is a... It's more like a gallery. if you can think of it like that, a digital space. So I'm more interested in people who are like, oh, I'm interested in the same shit Tom's interested in. Now once a month I'm going to have an occasion to listen to some cool people talk about it, listen to some music about it, do some reading about it. Well, I think you're in an interesting position because you actually have all of these interests and want to share them and can share them well. So I think that it does present a different kind of... only because there aren't a lot of people like you. And there definitely aren't a lot of people offering that to their quote-unquote fans. Tom, are you ready to manage a community, though? Do you have the cojones to be a community thought leader? I'm not sure. To be a rainier? Yeah, because once those Patreon pesos start prancing in, you're going to have to start putting in work. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have, I'm worried about it being too much work, but I'm trying to limit it and just do like this kind of like once a month for, you know, I've done a lot of the work that's going to go into this thing. I've already done it. Like a lot of the music is already made. A lot of the art is already made. You know, some of the cool shit that I'm able to do with this Patreon is like commission video work, original video work from artists that I've wanted to work with and haven't had an occasion to do so. So in that way, it's actually not that much work for me. It's like, hey, I'm giving you whatever, $5,000 to make a video to this. Like as an example, I was like the first artist to ever be invited to make music on and for the Getty Tram a few summers ago. I don't know if you caught that. I remember that. I remember that. I remember that. You turned that into a real haunted hayride with your Tom tunes, didn't you?

So I get on, I'm at the Getty. It's beautiful. It's sunny. I get on the tram and all of a sudden I'm in a fucking dungeon in Uzbekistan. All of those, you know, a couple of years ago. I went really beautiful. I went really ethereal. No, you did. That was like two or three years ago. Was it not? So that was around the same time that all those fires were happening around the Getty. Correct. Coincidence? I think not. It wasn't arson. They just simply put on Tom's newest mixtape. dude jeans i was i was working on so like they were like you can work on the recordings up here at the getty and i was like cool i got up there and i was like okay so where's the studio and they were like oh we don't have a studio we just thought you would like to come up here and work so next day i was like all right i hear you next day i showed up with my like mobile setup like laptop mo2 microphone mini keyboard and i just worked at the highest point of the getty for like two weeks five days a week that's very cool but black cb it was crazy because Looking out to the north and west, it was just flames. I was on another wave. It was very wild. It was cool. You didn't even need to take drugs. I was going to ask, what substance was Big Tom on at the time? bro i was just booing off a latte and just fucking grooving you know so you were watching la burn sipping a pumpkin spice and just making beats you're a regular you're a regular jay dilla bro that's cool as hell well tom tom i think another 25 year old reference that's that's part of my character tom thank you you know what jeans jeans you know that like uh I don't know, maybe six months ago, like Jeff Tweedy called up Chris Black and he was like, hey, have you heard of this artist Jay Dillard? He was like, no, I haven't heard of him yet. I'm going to check it out, Jeff. Yeah, thanks for the text, bro. And then two weeks later, Chris writes back and he's like, damn, I think he died already. Is Donuts, like, is that the best shit, or is there, like, some other stuff I should check out, Jeff? What do you think? Nice. So I think that the next evolution for you, Tom, is to maybe, I would like to see you create a new version of Patreon that is less lame. I think that, because I feel the same way about Patreon, where, like, it's like a good tool, it's there, but it really is inherently lame, and it just kind of feels odd using it, and that's why we've been resistant to it.

But I think that like the bones are there and with the right tweaking, you know, I like to think of it as, as, you know, a Patreon system 1.0 that can kind of be developed and honed into something that we all are okay with using. Yeah. I'm curious how it goes. I mean, to be, to be totally honest, they reached out to me. So that was like why I got this. I started this by being like, Oh shit. Okay. I guess I could do a Patreon. That's all it takes, ladies and gentlemen. Must be nice. This podcast is absolutely exploding and Noah from Patreon has gotten in touch with us. Un-fucking-believable. You know what you guys should use? You guys should use that thing. I think it's called Ghost. What's that? You know about this, James? Ghost.org, I think. Yeah, I've heard of it. It's like a new publishing platform that takes less percentage. It's like a Substack alternative. Yeah, but it's more like Patreon. It has more than Substack, I think. But it's definitely like open source publishing, like whatever, whatever. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it absolutely is and should be the future of content and media. Yeah. I know Chris disagrees, but Boomer Black is unfortunately on the wrong side of history. I mean, I also agree with Chris on this, though. I think that the, like... I like gatekeepers. What can I say? Yeah, I like that shit, too. The problem is all the gatekeepers, you know... One of the essays that I'm writing in this, in this book project is about like the Facebook's lies about the value of pivoting to video, you know? Yes. A classic foil. Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's so staggering to me that like, basically they like convinced everybody to pivot to video on the, on the ground, like on the, on the ground of some lies. And then all of the gatekeepers became the lamest shit on earth. And it's not just because of like, it's actually darker than just like some managerial level person being like, let's make this content snackable. It's way darker because the writers have learned what they think good reading and good thinking and good writing looks like through the kind of idiom and the cadence and grammar of the pivot to video.

so i'm with chris on this i don't really fuck with i don't really fuck with all this individuated like content channel i wish there were like really great and obviously there are but they're so like small and inconsequential because of how big the the conde nasts of the world well hey watch it watch your mouth when i'm talking about this i'm talking about conde nasts specifically Yeah, you love Condé. And my love for printed media. Yeah, but you have a love for a Condé Nast because of a certain era where they were potentially perfect and they jumped the shark at a certain point. Yeah, facts. Haven't we all? Yeah, but we need those gatekeepers. We need those things like that. But at a certain point, they will get too big and then you have to put the silver bullet in the head and start over. Well, that's how long gone is here to pick up the slack. And we are the new gatekeepers. You come on this podcast and you're basically blessed into the Illuminati. So Tom, welcome. Nice to have you. This Patreon is going to explode, obviously, thanks to your appearance on this little program. The least we could do with a talented old bud. Maybe you should increase your storage on your blog spot because your website will probably get shut down with all the new traffic. In my blog spot. I haven't hit that in a minute. Maybe I should start posting there again. Honestly, I think that's one of the coolest things you could do, knowing that it has the history that it does. I didn't get the proper intro that I hear for other real mates. We do that before. Okay, yeah. We do that on the intro. We know you've never listened to it. Tom, why don't you go ahead and suck my fucking dick, Tom? How long gone? No, I'm kidding. I do. I listen to some beautiful Epis. I listen to some Epis. Tom does be listening, and we've had many a pod over the years. This is basically Kanye coming on Joe Rogan for us. Yeah, in a way. It's just three intelligent people. A mentally ill person and an out-of-touch bulb guy. And I'm the guy who just pulls up the stuff on YouTube. Jason, yeah, you're the... You're Elon Musk.

You're the producer who got COVID, so they had to cancel the appearance. That's what happened. Yeah, but, you know, when I was driving across Colorado, I paused the K-Punk audiobook to listen to some How Long Gone. Thank you. Well, I'm glad to hear that when you need some comic relief, because I know you're doing a lot of, you know, white paper reading and deep listening and, you know, things that I'm not capable of. You already know. So, Tom, what do you miss about Los Angeles the most right now, and you can't say your friends? You bring your dog out here? You got your dog with me? I got shrimp with me. I got the dog with me. Okay, thank God. He keeps his fucking dogs with him. You know that. Yeah, you already know. I don't know, man. I think that like... Don't say nothing, Tom. Some authentic Mexican food? No, I mean, I had a meal with your brother recently, Jason, that was fire from Scaff's. Scaff's Lebanese cuisine? What is Scaff's? That sounds like something I would get on my leg after hiking. Nice. It's a Lebanese restaurant. Bomb-ass Lebanese. CB, it's so fire. You would love it. It's just like proteins and vegetables. You would love it. I love Bami ethnic vegetable-based cuisine. You're not eating steak, are you? I would never. The steak there is. Flambe. We know you like steak. It's Flambe literally and... You eat weird shit though, Tom. I feel like you're a weird eater. In what sense? I just feel like you don't enjoy a smoothie. You gotta have something extreme. I like a smoothie, but it's gotta have some damn bee pollen in it or I'm not moving the needle. No, bro, that's starter pack shit, baby. We're in LA. Bee pollen, that shit. Be Paul and you get in the gas station, bro. Chris wants you to have some ground up metal shavings or something. You know I hit the colloidal silver if I'm feeling a little tickle. I'm always chewing on a hunk of silver. If I'm feeling a little tickle. No, I want your diet to meet.

you know, to, to match the extreme areas of your life, the other areas of your life. Yeah. But I, but I think that, you know, both of you guys are extreme in your own right and you have pretty regular guy palates. Not, I don't mean that in a bad way. No, this is not this. I mean, let's be real though, Chris, you have, you have a very regular guy palette with food stuff. But I think more, more, more so the point specifically is that. Chris Creation Black. As weird as you guys are, but as weird as you guys are and as slender and fit and active as you guys are, both of you guys and myself included can really wolf down some grub. We'd be eating good. James, you know I get zooted off the J Balvin meal like twice a week. We haven't talked about the J Balvin meal where his custom burger is a Big Mac with the pickles taken off of it. That's literally it. It's a Big Mac con no pickles. I don't want to talk about the amount of ink that we have given McDonald's in this podcast depresses me. I'm not even anti-capitalist like Tom. I just actually... Like McDonald's is truly Satan. Like that's the worst out there. It's funny, but it's also not funny. Is Walmart worse or is McDonald's worse? No, Walmart's cool. They offer stuff that I could use. McDonald's is gross. Walmart is not. I love McDonald's. I went to Walmart like a couple weeks ago. LP wanted to go cop a pumpkin. LP, life partner. Every time you say that, I'm like, why is he chilling with LP right now? Jason does like. Have you played with Run the Jewels, Tom? Be honest. I played some festivals with those guys. You've shared the stage with the crooked Run the Jewels. Interesting. I'm not a fan. Hopefully they Swiffered and disinfected the stage before you went on. I demand that. I demand that. I need my candles out. I need my bowl of fresh fruit on stage. Me, LP, and Killer Mike went to Walmart and...

And I felt physically. Jason and Killer Mike just dapped up all the cops together while Carolyn looked for a pumpkin. Just being inside Walmart was just nasty. And I did see a TikTok recently of a guy comparing what it's like going to Target versus going to Walmart. And he's like a guy walking to Target and they're like, oh, hey, take your mask off, man. We trust you. It's all good. If you need anything out of the case, here's the keys. Just go pay for it. And it's all, you know, and then it goes to Walmart and there's like gunshots. and police sirens and the whole vibe. That could be a problematic TikTok. That is fine, but I just think the energy and the spirit inside of Walmart is very evil and dark. I think it's worse than McDonald's. Well, have you ever been inside an Amazon? That's what I thought. That's the real criminal. I have been inside the Amazon and did have a similar vibe except just a similar tax bracket or a different tax bracket. Did you see that Simon Demme art project where he had somebody fabricate this thing that Amazon had patented, which is called a worker's cage? I keep using one of those, actually. Amazon factories are these super automated stacks of goods, stacks of ballots, right? And they move mad fast, like 50 miles an hour. Like they sort super fast. And so you can't put a body on the floor in the factory. So someone was like, why don't we make a cage the size of one of the pallet stacks? And we can toss a dude in there, get past OSHA. Then we don't get the OSHA problem. Yeah. So that's like the Amazon way. That's called ingenuity. Yeah, it's ingenuity. Exactly. And I'm not going to let you sit here and flame. America's greatest export like that on this podcast. No, I mean, I will say that also Gene's like the McDonald's by my house in LA on Alvarado and Temple. That could use a bath. That's a bathroom, I think, more than a burger dispensary. I mean, it's a tough scene. Actually, I popped over there with my friend Pierce to get the Travis Scott burger. Actually, this was our second time.

You know why, though? You know why we went the second time is because the first time they didn't give us the barbecue sauce, which is part of the Travis Scott combo. You know, you got to get the fries and the barbecue sauce like he did in Houston. So we went back a second time. Yeah, facts. We went back a second time to get it, and it was such an odd confluence of the typical scene there, which is a lot of houseless people congregating, getting a meal or whatever, and then a lot of these little hypebeast tweens. Pulling up to get their Travis Scott meal with a Sprite and screaming it's lit or whatever. Tell them Travis sent you. No, tell them Cactus Jack sent me. Come on. Oh, my fault. Do you think that all of these streetwear collabs and Travis Scott and young TikToker collabs for McDonald's will start to alienate their core old people audience getting coffee there every morning as well as Tekashi69 getting coffee there every morning? I don't think it'll alienate them in the slightest. I think that like the... To put on my brand strategist hat right now. To put on my corporate semi-efficient hat right now. Put on your Culver City chinos and shoot me straight. It's a 47 New Era Dodgers cap, just to be specific. Put on the Allbirds cardigan and ideate with me, King. No, bro, you know what I'm about to rock. I'm going to throw on the Arxeterics or whatever. No. I don't see it. I'm going to put on my rare all conditions gear and pop this thought out for you. Unfortunately, I don't see a whiteboard anywhere in view right now, so I hope you're writing this down. No, dude, it's all off the dome. It's all off the dome. Sick. You are an artist. The way that the market has become so stratified, and again, like we were saying, individuated. It's like people aren't in groups anymore. People are in buckets, and these buckets are very siloed from one another. The Travis Scott meal is only legible and salient to the people for whom the Travis Scott meal is appealing. Everyone else just goes, oh, McDonald's burger. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And also something I've been trying to get some background info on is how they're making the meal decisions. Because it's clear that that's not what J Balvin eats and that's not what Travis Scott eats.

But like, for instance, there's a massive disparity in terms of the calorie count between the Balvin meal and the Travis Scott meal, right? Do they know? I'm not even sure, but one of them has a fucking McFlurry, so you already know it's way more. Yeah, Balvin has more calories. Are they getting some insight? Do they have some insight driving the decision-making there, which is like this demographic eats more or will spend more? Yeah, 100%. I think that shit is fully scientific. So McDonald's is like the Latinx community can have more calories than the Travis Scott fans. they choose to consume or they like sweet stuff or you know whatever yeah and what percentage of the travis scott meals are bought by the parents for the children what percentage of them are bought by like suburban like you know caucasoids in head to toe supreme don't this is jason jason is a co-host of this podcast speaking speaking in present what can i do you for he turns on his camera Jason turns on his camera, flips it around, head to toe supreme. That would be so cool, actually. That would be comedy. Absolute comedy. That would be very cool of you, Jason. I'm glad that you too think a lot about these things, Tom. Maybe it can be included in your next Patreon program. Yeah, I'll toss it up on the Patreon. Tom, I'm going to subscribe to your Patreon to support the arts. I will request a free media pass. to the paywall, please. Yeah, I can plug you in. That shows a lot about the differences between Jason and I. I'll give you a shout-out. That's worth more than $9.99. Give me a shout-out, Jason. We just gave this big bitch an hour-long shout-out, Jason. We're not giving him another one. We're milking Tom for all that he's got. His teat is worn dry after we've ravaged him. Check this out. I wanted to try something on you guys. This better be a magic trick. Are you about to drop a beat? Okay, go ahead. Nobody ever says, yo, jeans. What have you been fucking with lately? Chris, what have you been fucking with lately? It's always, hey, Tom. Hey, skeet. Hey, reality show person. No, I'm serious. What have you guys been doing? What have you been listening to, Chris? Tom, do you really want to know? I'll bring up the iTunes right now.

Crank it. Let's go. The new Kevin Morby album is very good. I saw you tweet that. I saw you tweet that. The new Cut Worms album is very good. Hey, you know what you would really like, Chris? You know my friend Pat McDermott? I don't know. Is he in Train? Yeah, he would like that record. You should check out his new records. The North Americans is his project. And he worked with a lap steel guy. It's just beautiful. Okay, I'm in. You're going to love this record, yeah. It's on Third Man, so you'll love it. Oh, no, hold on. I hate that. Jack White's the enemy. No, despite it being on Third Man, it is good. Yeah, it's beautiful. Americana shit. They did a beautiful Tom Petty Wildflowers reissue with all kinds of sick demos. Oh, turn up. That's fire. There's a weird, I don't know how I discovered this, but it's like a 90s shoegaze band called Drop 19s that I had never heard of before that's very good. We brought back the Broken Social Scene, You Forgot It in People, classic Canadian smash. Such a beautiful record, dude. You know what? I was thinking about their self-titled record. It was so influential for me, dude. That's interesting. They're great. They're underrated, I think, in America. I think in Canada. So you know Justin from Broken Social Scene drummed in How to Dress Well for a period? No, but he's sick with it, as they say. But he's not the drummer of Broken Social Scene. He is. Oh, Justin. Sorry, I thought you said Dustin. My bad. Yeah, actually, I did a podcast with him. We did a Tall Tales back in the day. Nice, nice. Yeah, and then Kevin Drew is a big supporter of mine, too. Oh, really? Yeah, because I'm just such a fan of his, and then he kind of got tipped off to my music, and he was like, oh, I see it, bro. I see what you're doing. We'd love to have him and Feist on the pod. Feist is a Chris. Feist is one of the most underrated artists of our generation. By cool people. Yeah, I mean, a couple beautiful records. Really? And there's another, well, I'll finish with, there's a group called Lomelda, and the album's called Hannah. That shit is slapping. What about, like, I mean, that's it, really. The rest is shit you're going to make fun of me for, so I'll just stop there. Good choice, good choice. I really like Choir Boy. I like that record a lot, too. I don't know. There's this label called Days, like D-A-I-S. Days, yeah, Days. Days, I'm sorry, Days.

it's the guy who used to do, it's Gibby that did Makeout Club. It's his label. Oh, facts. Yeah, they have some good records on that label. I've listened to some stuff there, too. Also, Chris liked, which was an odd pick for Chris, the Romy from XX solo record. Oh, man, no comment. Yeah, no comment. Yeah, it's a little too upbeat for Tom. Tom, would you consider that to be false house music? No, I just... consider it to be like super, like, I just am not moved, bro. Just uninteresting. Not even, I don't even have anything negative to say about it. Like, I mean, the, the thing that for me lately, especially is like, I'm more like hyped on like the, like I'm more hyped on like the, my zoom sessions with the Chicago area consortium for German philosophy than I am on anything at the level of culture. So you have not... Can we get a translation, my friend? I'm going to assume then, Tom, based on that statement, you have not heard the new Killers album, Imploding Mirage. In stores now. Available wherever music is streamed. All the digital DSPs have it. Give it a listen and then come back to your little German friends in their Zoom. Yeah, that's correct. Wait, Jeans, before I get into my little whatever translation, what have you been blowing the speakers of Wifey's Tesla with? Jason, are you doing graffiti right now? I feel like I hear somebody writing with a sharpie. Guilty as charged. Jason's in his black book right now. I'm not even paying attention to us. He's doing his line work. Let him work. He's a disciplinary artist. Chris, if I could turn the graffiti switch off, I would. I know. You're old now. You're 40. You can't go to jail for that. He's doing a wall in his own house. Carol let him do a wall. All right, sweetie. You can do the back. It's cool how she lets me support the arts and stuff like that. My music consumption is completely mindless at this point. In the car, the classical music station is playing. That's just always on.

That's it. Don't think about it. And then music-wise, I'm just cycling through NTS playlists and then putting something on that sounds interesting to me. And then I just set it and forget it. I'm not really doing much destination or appointment listening. Jason's turned into an algorithmic listener. the rest of these teens. No, quite the opposite because I'm not using Spotify or Apple Music or any of the algorithms. NTS is the same thing. It's just cool guys in London instead of fucking not cool guys in Culver City. No, it's absolutely not the same thing. It's music that's being mixed. It's hand selected. It's music that's being mixed live. and streamed to me 24 hours a day by people who are professional musicians. You're picking a station based on the style of music that they're going to play. Yeah, but there's also... No, Chris, he's picking them based on the LA-based persona that he is interested in listening to mixes from. Nick Mellon's Shlomo, the whole nine, you know? But there's all... Shout out to the boys, by the way. I'm down with We Did It Radio. To me, I like it. Jeans, what do you think of... the new Salem tunes that Shlomo, that Henry did the exact production on. Um, you know, I, it, I, I guess I kind of like it, you know, it's, I, for some reason I fuck with both. Well, you know, new Salem coming out on, on, uh, mad decent. Our label. So just look out for it. Big ups to Diplo, our boss. Just shout out to them and the whole EDM community. Get that Salem. Cop that Salem at Tower Records. I think white people doing chopped and screwed music, I'm guilty as charged of doing that, but I'm ready in 2020 for it to be something different and new and exciting to me. You know, being chopped and slowed and reverbed is like the new thing to do. Slowed and reverbed. I just want it to be done not for the sake of doing it, but not because it sounds cool on drugs, but like transform it into something special that never existed before is what I want it to happen. So then the big question, the lingering question then is, James, what do you think of my personal album of the year, 333 by Blade?

Are you Drain Gang or not? What sneaker is that? Are you talking about Blade-y? Yeah, yeah. I'm pronounced Blade, my dog. Can I get that at Champs? Is that inline product or is that like an exclusive? I tried playing some Drain Gang. Tom, I've tried to play. I got some pants from Trabian right here on the chair room. I know you do, Tom. I know, I know. I got the Trabian pajama joints on sale. I like that. I know you're a shopper. Tom would really be hot at dressing. I like pronouncing it bladey instead, Tom. And I do like that music. I think it has some of the coolest swag out right now. I tried playing it for my life partner and for Chris, and they don't really understand it, unfortunately. Oh, yeah, I can't imagine what would happen in Chris Black's mind if he heard that music. You guys shut the fuck up. I'm pretty open-minded. Chris does have an open mind. Sorry that I want to hear songs with a chorus and a verse. Sue me. Put me in jail for that. Bro, he's got hooks. Yeah, he's got hooks. One could argue it's all hook, but that's not a bad thing. Exactly. Yeah, but to answer your question, this is a Drain Gang-supported podcast, sure. Yeah, facts. I know the graffiti you're working on. You're writing jeans and then you're doing a little angel halo, airbrush details, stars and shit. Yeah, the angel has the kind of dramatic baby eyes because he feels very sorry for hurting your feelings. And yeah, I'm also kind of drawing different Burberry logos and things like that. Some of the dream garments that I hope to be wearing one day once I become rich and famous. Tom's shopping at Trevian. Jason's shopping at Essence. It's just all we do is shop, guys. All we do is shop. Shop, shop, shop, no matter what. I found it on Depop. Oh, dude. I follow this insanely sick store on Depop and lately I've just been like, like, I don't, this maybe sounds, yeah. I'm just going to say it. I long to be a beautiful girl so that I can shop at this one Depop. It's so fire. The clothing is amazing. All you have to do is shave and you're there. Thank you, sir. You're tall, you're slender, you have a beautiful head of hair. That is what I look for.

So you're saying this collection of Depop clothing has such a beautiful assortment of women's clothing that you sometimes wish you could be dressing in it? The taste level is so high and so unique. It's just amazing. Have you located the Instagram of the person who runs it? That's a good question. No, I mean, I located the shop on Instagram because I'm not out there surfing Depop, bro. When I say, like, I follow the Depop, I mean, I follow the Instagram. Oh, wow, Tom. Excuse me, Tom. You literally said Depop. How can I get confused? Yeah, well, what do I look like to you, bro? I'm not out there. thumb cruising through. Dead ass, bro. The shit you're doing, I'm so unfamiliar with it. It wouldn't surprise me if you were a Depop. But also, you know, have an open mind, Tom. Grails can be found on every corner of the internet, Depop included. That's true. I'm a big Etsy. I found some classic vintage tees on Etsy. Fire. We all believe that. Wait till I shut the block down with my new Bell and Sebastian vintage tee next week. It's over for you, hoes. Bro, my pops just... Just threw a couple of t-shirts my way from Costco, some Dickies, pocket tees, white pocket tees. I thought you were going to say my dad threw me a couple of vintage Bell and Sebastian tees just this week. Your dad, I assumed your dad was an if you're feeling sinister kind of guy. So that's cool that he handed that down. That cheeky little cut. Keep in mind, my dad is like a Herbie Hancock kind of guy. Like my first concert ever when I was. So this is maybe to answer the very first question you asked me, like when was I a freak? When I was like eight years old, my dad took me to a Hancock and Shorter performance at the Boulder Theater that literally was unlistenable trash. Some big noodling? No, just like, you know, at the time they were into like these like super deconstructed, minimal, like kind of like organic imitating, organic mimesis jazz.

This literally sounds like you describing your new music, so I think you need to tread lightly here. As we're referring to Herbie Hancock, when you say the word organic, is that from the organ instrument, or is that from nature? No, like nature. I think they did a whole sequence, a couple records, where it was kind of like... Kruger and Dorfmeister? No, it was like Rorschach, Paint Splatter. uh, scrunk, scrunk trumpet and key minimal piano playing like imitating bird languages, imitating bird languages. Okay. So you got, you got into it at, uh, uh, maybe a downturn of their overall career path. Yeah. I mean, we weren't talking about the headhunters, pop music, bro. We're talking about like dad, your dad really handed down some demented shit. That's some big freak hours right there. Yeah. Big fact. Big fact. All he listens to now is Casey and the Sunshine Band because he's a little older. He's cruising. If you introduced him to Wilco, he might like it. Us old guys are into that. Tom, as we're approaching the 420 hour, I do have to head off for obvious reasons. Is there a song that you would like me to play you out with? Are you about to go do knife hits or what are you doing? Don't trigger me like that, Tom. I only do knife hits when LP's out of town. She's got to be in a different time zone for me to do something like that. Jason doesn't want to ruin the wolf range with a knife hit. You know what I mean? He's got different priorities. Look, I could do it. I just don't want to. Okay, I could totally do it. She's not my boss. She doesn't tell me what to do. Well, you know what, Tom? Maybe I will take back my request for you to choose a song then. Yeah, Tom, tell us a song to play you out on, bro. Something many people have heard. Blow me up, Tom. Okay, something for the folks. Maybe play me out with a mid-album jam from the new Coil album called Feeling Cycles. Okay, what else you got? What else we got? You have a plan B?

How about anything on the Billboard Hot 100? No. Let me think. From the Hot 100, you could do... No, actually, the more rare, the better, just in terms of copyright takedown notices. Good point, good point, good point. Yeah, I mean, I would say send me out with that. Send me out with Koyil. Could you spell that for us? Yeah, please. K-O-Y-I-L. Or if you want to really, really bring the hammer down, you could send them out with... by Kay Hoffman. K-A-Y-H-O-S. Tom, just stop. We're playing the coil. We'll take door number one. Tom, is this music even available on DSPs? Or is this like, we're going to have to email you after the show to get it from your hard drive? I have it on my Nokia. I'll send it over to you. You're going to have to overnight a mini disc because this episode goes up tomorrow, Tom. Yeah, so you better hurry. I know Colorado's an hour behind or an hour ahead, so we're going to have problems. A song we can all agree on. Okay. It's never meant by American football. Wow. There's my dog, Tom. I love you, bro. You know, Tom, I was zigging. You were zagging. But then at the end, like two real bros, we came together and we found a middle ground. And it's with absolutely awful suburban emo from the early 2000s. It reminds me of Gene's birthday party, the only COVID meal I've had at a restaurant. Where Chris Black and I were just raging at each other the entire time until we hit uncommon ground. That's what real friendship is about, and that's called progression. I think that's what we need today in this crumbling society. Sometimes it takes an hour, hour and a half to grind two lumps of coal together to create a diamond called American football. American football. Tom, thank you for joining us. Of course. So How to Dress Well, we're going to celebrate the anniversary of the debut album. We'll hear more about that. You're launching the Patreon service, the How to Dress Well art and reading service.

HTDW program is what we're calling it. That's cool. I like that. Keep your eyes peeled to the blog spot for any and all updates. Make sure you subscribe to Patreon early and subscribe often. Thank you, Tom. It's always a pleasure. Enjoy Colorado. We'll see you on the other side, bro. Can't wait to spread with you. Later. Peace.