084. - Nate Freeman

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... And podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Hello, Jason. How are you? I'm doing well. They're doing a British Vogue photo shoot at the hotel today, so lots of action. Who's the talent? Unclear. They did not send me the call sheet. I'm merely overseeing it from my window. When you say overseeing it, you mean literally you're looking out your window and looking at it? Yes, yes. I'm not doing anything. I'm not participating in any way. I'm not assisting or detracting. Okay. Is it at least a female or a male talent or unknown? I don't like to put people in boxes like that, Jason. So let's just say my preferred pronoun is talent. So I feel like theirs might be as well. So I'm just going to leave it at that. Chris, that was a test. And you passed the first one. Yes! This is a cancel quiz episode, and so far you're batting 1,000. Thank you. I think it's a cancel pop quiz episode, actually, because I wasn't warned of this beforehand. Yeah, it is a cancel pop quiz. So far there was only one question, and you did get it right. But I think the cancel Olympics is a good episode subject matter that we should think about doing in the future. Yeah, I think... That is a great idea, and I wonder who the guest should be for that. It definitely can't just be me and you. We need somebody to take the heat off of us. I guess Z-Way it is. It's finally time we have the Z-Man. I don't think Z-Way would answer our texts, our calls, our emails, or maybe even our smokes. Look, I'd be willing to get destroyed for an hour on her Instagram Live just so I can have clean audio of me saying, look, Z-Man. And that's it. Yeah, me too. I think that's probably worth it. Well, Jason, we need to talk about your new career as a Substack publisher. Okay, please. Let's do it. Yeah, you and I ate some food last night, and I brought up after a... I didn't eat much food. You guys ate a lot of disgusting food while I sat there and was tired and had a single cigarette on a rooftop. But I mentioned that I had written a little piece of content about...

the travis scott cheeseburger and you said no it's too late and then i said oh damn maybe it is too late got in my head about it i decided to smash the publish button this morning anyway though and and from what i can tell the responses are quite positive and and i just want to say as a friend and um and a writer i really enjoyed it and i thought it was a fun read and an interesting take and i have to say you know you made a subject that i'm desperately desperately want to go away and i'm so tired of interesting again and that's powerful fuck yeah baby you did it tj and you know really who else matters besides me you know what i mean like let's be real that's the audience that truly matters so yeah i mean the question is sorry jason go ahead the question is jason Where is the subbie going from here? Is Jason Stewart, is he shifting into full foodie substack publishing mode? Are you going to butt heads with former guest Alicia Kennedy? Luckily, I think her and I are operating in different waves and lanes of the food writing world where I'm covering, you know, my beat is a little bit. McDonald's? It's a little. I'm talking more about the specific culinary arts, maybe a higher thinking for flavor combinations, textures, mouthfeels, and stuff like that. Whereas she is more so writing about how men shouldn't get awards for cooking stuff. I understand. So it's two different takes on the... the varied food world, which is, you know, all I have to say is that both of you and all the other food subbies that are operating out there, you know, it's, it's taking money out of the mouths of big bond app. And that's what really matters. You know what I mean? Cause we, we want to, we want to see that fucking, you know, we have to see that fail because, because it's the injustice to society that bond app has done is too great for them to survive. I know you agree with me. I mean, I wrote that article on mushrooms with those.

Pure 100% intention of dismantling the failing Bon Appetit legacy as well as the failing Gentleman's Quarterly, New York Times. The list goes on. So basically you're coming for the neck of any legacy failing publishing company. It ain't safe. If you have made money selling the words of people and the photography of people, this is the last day. We are taking it back. It's sub-hive only. I have made zero money from this. I do not have my payment system set up. I don't know. Your take on the world of digital panhandling has not fallen on deaf ears in Glendale. It feels odd for me to charge somebody money to read that, even though I've had a lot of great... um you know feedback so far and what did david chang say to you about it uh i mean that's kind of what this is all i mean david chang if you're ready to have me on your podcast you know the bitch no david chang's coming on our podcast chang chang will never do this podcast but maybe there's a chance that i'll do his podcast but his you know that's that's the you know that's the reason why i do stuff like this is you know you look at somebody like david chang who's arguably at the top of the food media world right now you know he has tons of restaurants he's a millionaire he has tv shows and other shows in development and a lot going on but you know his his voice and his opinion is not is not really in line with with the current zeitgeist i say he's it ain't resonating with the culture with the streets and also you know and him and i just have really opposite taste with food he likes he likes a lot like he was talking about glendale restaurants on his podcast this week and he was naming other than mini kebab he was naming some bizarre stinkers and i and he's talking about enjoying the food from king taco which is it's it's just it ain't good well i mean i'm saying we're ready to have the crown snatched there's room but there's room the food media world in its crumbling state of just failure luckily a a

giant white phoenix is rising from the ashes and his name is tj is tj and he's coming for your fucking neck all the way from glendale this is a global attack yeah there's there are only days if not hours left where somebody in my position um being a cis white male could potentially succeed in the world of food media uh so i've got to strike while the the cast iron is hot damn don't do that um well well look i'm happy to see you out there and i'm happy to see the flood of positive responses coming in because you know like i said to you earlier if you eat i eat and then we collectively eat together you know and that's not that's not just a pun for the situation but it's a real life application you know yeah yeah all uh the tide raises all boats and we only have two boats me and you the only two boats that matter um Jason, we do have a guest today. I don't know if you're familiar with Nate Freeman's work, but it's a little too highbrow for you, I think, to be honest. Yeah, I am not familiar with his work. It is too highbrow. The highbrow world of gossip is out of my jurisdiction, and I'm more into pictures and drawings and stuff like that. I know you're not a big reader, but Nate Freeman has an incredible column on Artnet called Wet Paint. Is that Artnet.com or is it Artnet.net? It's Artnet.com, which is cool. But by title, he's the senior art business reporter. But he has this column called Wet Paint that rounds up all the hottest goss in the art world. And even though that's a little over your head, I think you can respect the dedication to rumor-mongering, number-releasing, shaming, all the stuff that we do, honestly, on this podcast. It's not dissimilar to what we do on this podcast. When you say number-releasing, are you talking about the releasing of someone's phone number or their financials? Or what do you mean by that?

No, I'm saying this sold for this much, this sold for that much, this gallerist is hurting. Much like we do on this show, he likes to dig into some financials, which is more of a part of the art world. It's a known thing to release those. The market has to know. Much like the world of real estate, I think that art and homes, they can also be investments, Chris. I've heard about that. Unfortunately, I only spend... I plan on chatting with our guests about that to see how art can be an investment. Well, I buy art for the love of it. I don't buy things for investments. I spend my millions where my heart wants to. You know what I mean? Everybody's got a different approach. At Uniqlo. You know how far a million dollars we go at Uniqlo, Jason? I mean, think about that. I'm very thrifty. I could give you a new polo shirt every time I see you. All right. Well, let's give Big Nate Dog a call and get to the bottom of this little art world thing he talks about so much. Let us. Okay. Hold, please. Hold, please. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian. stateside with kai and carter this is covering a lot of our bases jason it's a it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit.

Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues. Obviously. Maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area.

You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash how long for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code how long to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. Big Nate dog, what the fuck is up, baby? Let's talk about art. Let's talk about some motherfucking art. So, you know, Jason doesn't know anything about art. And so we want a little explainer from professional in the business. But before we get into that, you know, you're famous, most well-known, I'll say, for something called wet paint. a column you do for your employer at artnet.com. What is the cadence? How often does a column come out? Forgive me for not knowing. Well, it's a weekly column, which is a shit ton of work, actually. But, you know, the people want it. They want the tea. They want to know what the fuck's going on in the art world. They want to know what people are eating at Lucien. It's like I've got to give the people what they want. Well, see, I feel like that's the thing about the beauty of wet paint is that it stretches from art and it touches kind of everything that matters. And I think that's the power of a weekly dispatch because it's hard. Like you said, you're having to crank out a lot of motherfucking words. Well, other than the restaurant Lucien, what are some other things that matter? That's a good question. What matters besides Lucien? Also, that question can be answered by either of you. It's not just for you. Well, you know, New York is a strange place to be right now, but honestly, it's a blast. And there are people here who are having a great time. Unless you have the coronavirus. Well, you know. You can't contract the novel coronavirus if you're rich, Jason. We all know that. That's true. Our world's not in danger. So NYC is a blast right now. I think it's great right now.

The column sort of reflects that. Obviously, I get tips from people in L.A. and Europe and whatnot. Actually, hold on. Tell me about the tip-getting process. Are we getting DMs? Are they sent over a secure line? Or is this just kind of letting it fly through the text? People should use a secure line. There's some real hot shit that gets sent to me. I assume you have an encrypted number through your Signal account. You know, I do. No one fucking cares. No one uses it. I have Signal. I have this thing called Wire, which is supposedly even more secure than Signal. I can't be bothered. My drug dealer tries to get me to use Signal. I'm just like, bruh, we finna DM. Yeah, dude. I find that stuff to be overkill, but I'm also not distributing the kind of important information that you're receiving. Walk me through the process of receiving a hot tip. What does that do to your insides? How does it make you feel, and then how do you get more information out of the tip giver, the whistleblower? It goes straight to the veins, dude. Hell yeah. It's the best. You see those three little dots after someone tells you, like, have you heard about this? Or, like, I got a tip for you. I'm pretty sure I know who Banksy is, and then you're like, oh! Oh, shit! Oh, shit! Fuck on him! We got Banksy. We'll put a pin in the Banksy chat because he's the only artist I am aware of, so I will be asking most of my questions about him and who he might be. I prefer we just cut the Banksy talk right now, unfortunately, Jason. But if you want, I can indulge you in your one and only artist that you know. We all know it is the guy from Massive Attack, so I guess the conversation can end here, right? That's true. The conversation is over. Getting a tip, how often are they anonymous versus how often is it somebody in your network of whistleblowers that you keep close to the vest? I get these sketchy-ass emails all the time from people who are using ProtonMail and shit. I don't know what ProtonMail is. Is that a thing I should know about? ProtonMail is signal for email. It's some dork shit. I get a lot of tips on that thing.

And then sometimes I think it's like Richard Prince making up pseudonyms. I think he's tipping me a lot. I feel like that's very possible. Actually, that's a realistic consideration on your part. Richard, if you're listening, we can see right through your tricks. I mean, it's very obvious. But I always take the bait. Love the guy. You have to, but now I guess what I'm asking is, are you doing a lot of teasing out or are people coming to the table ready to let it spray? It depends. Sometimes it's the first martini at Louisiana when they spill their guts, and sometimes it's the third martini. It depends on the person. Is Artnet.com footing the bill for these martinis? That's the real question. They are. They're very generous about reimbursing me when it's a legit business expense. I don't just do it willy-nilly, but if there's a... a scoop that comes from the fucking martinis of Lucian. They pay for the fucking martinis of Lucian. I like that. I like an employer that knows where to spend their money, you know? And can you tell me how artnet.com is still in business? That's a great question. I mean, I'm fucking hard. I'm serious. It's like, I know it's the, I know it's the paper of record, but you know, it's still hard. I mean, the easy answer is I have no clue. Like, I mean, no, I mean, there's like, you know, Business people who are somehow convincing Cartier and shit to buy ads. And they're heroes. Because I have no idea how they do it. They have a great sales team. A classic model. We love sales guys at this podcast. We love sales. We love sales guys. And it could be also from a generous contribution from the Carnegie Foundation as well. I've read that they support the arts. It's fair that if I'm nice to some large organization in my column, it probably means they're paying a lot of money. We understand that here. That's why we only shout out big corps on this podcast. Thank you, Amazon. Thank you, Tesla. Thank you, Sakara Life. Thank you, News Corp. I want to shout out News Corp. Thank you for the generous support, News Corp. News Corp has been killing it lately.

Jason's a former, he's a recovering DJ. And I am just recovering. And both of us have spent many, many dark nights in Miami for the Art Basel Fair. Oh, God. Have you heard of this thing? Have you heard of this thing, Nate? I feel like you've heard of it. I mean, it seems like a dream at this point, the 10 years or so that have gone, all of them. A big dream, but yes, unfortunately I'm aware. I was reading on Artnet.com that it's canceled this year. It's done. When I first read on MixMag.net that EDC was going to be canceled this year, I assume that was akin to the way you were feeling once you had to write that Art Basel was going to be canceled this year. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, me and Kat Mornell are still going anyway. Oh, I like that. Are you really? Yeah, Kat and I are going, and we're going to do our own Basel. Everyone's invited. Okay, we need to talk offline, because I went last year truly awful. I mean, I've been a bunch of times, but this most recent year, I really was like, I'm never going to go again. It's absolutely fucking washed. What was the worst thing you went to in Miami last year? I've been to some really shitty things. I mean, every party that promised to be a cool party was none of that. The only good place I went to was Joe's Stone Crab. I do love Joe's Stonecrab. Yeah, you can't not go to Joe's when you're in town. You know, but just like hanging out at Soho House and having a Bev, you know, on the beach, that's great. That's wonderful. But then once the parties kick in at night in the tents and stuff like that, it's just the worst of the worst Miami club trash. And nothing artistic is happening whatsoever.

I did go to a party at the Pants Splitting King Lenny Kravitz's house. Let's go. Lenny, let it all hang out. Damn, our Basels are hitting differently, King. Yeah, my man Wesley Pence was on the ones and twos. Big friend of this podcast. I mean, he's a friend to all. He really is. He gives back and he gives and he gives and he gives. Actually, I caught the digits and I was telling Dip, What art to buy? I swear to God. You were doing free art advisement for Riplow. Oh, it was incredibly free. On a scale of 1 to 10, how high on cocaine were you when this conversation was happening? I think about a 6. No judgment, no shade, but giving art advice to somebody in Miami, it would be strange if cocaine was not involved. I know this was last year, but were any of your predictions true? Did any of these artists and markets explode after you recommended them to DJ Diplo? You know what? I was fucking right on every count. I told him to buy Amawako Boafo. That guy exploded like two months later. I was right. Diplo was wrong. You told him to cop the banana. Ended up being a pretty good investment. The banana was sold out. They sold those. What do you think about the banana? I think it's pretty cool and funny. I got an email about it from Perotan, the gallery, a week or two before. I saw it and I was like, it's a pretty good cut salon. It's pretty good. It's okay. I thought it was mediocre to good. He's a good artist, so this is one of his pretty good works. I got the joke. But, like, everyone else thought it was the most outrageous thing ever. And so I guess I missed the whole phenomenon. I think it's okay. There's a lot of idiots out there in the world, my friend. That's true. That's true. Yeah, some people just aren't down to clown. This is an exact case of that. Well, now, the... You know who is? Banksy. Go ahead, Chris. That's right. So if you're not able to... I mean, I know you and Kat are going to Miami for your own, Basil. But, you know, if the bears are...

Now, were you going to Switzerland and London and were you hitting the circuit? I was on the circuit every single major fair for years. It was like, you know, nonstop. There were months when I would go back and forth three, four times in a month. This lifestyle is sounding sexy as hell, bro. So you're going from doing coke with Diplo in Miami to fucking Switzerland to London. Where else are we talking about? Are you going to Australia? Are you going to Asia? I mean, I went to Shanghai last November and I spent more time traveling than I did in Shanghai. I was there for a night. So when you're on the ground, you're having to work on other stories because this is, I think, a pre-wet paint world. So you're covering the business of art, the numbers, the ins and outs, the movers and shakers, the head launches. Yeah. real hothouse situation in there. You're in the Grand Hotel Trois-Ras and everyone around you is a billionaire. You're just writing about these billionaires traveling around the world just to buy crazy-ass paintings. It's fascinating. Are any of these guys cool to you or do they think of you as the enemy? I mean, cool is an interesting way to put it. Like, do I think Stevie Cohen is cool? I mean, I don't mean cool like I want to hang with him. I mean, cool like he's down to talk if you need to talk. If you need a quote, who's giving you the quotes? I mean, like, you know, I can hang to a certain extent. So it's like, you know, I'm there chilling, whatever. They know I'm a reporter. They say off the record, whatever. If they need to use me for some reason to like, you know. Plan a story. They can do that. But generally, they're cool as long as I don't break the trust circle. Sure, sure, sure, sure. I'm sure you've seen some wild behavior, though. Have you not? Yeah, I have, actually. I mean, you ever see... Leo DiCaprio fucking sucking down an e-cig on a balcony in Switzerland. It's crazy. That sounds like a fucking piece of art right there. That's billionaire bad boy behavior. That's a motherfucking blue chip painting right there. Dude loves art dealers, man. He hangs out with the Namads just nonstop.

Do you think it's just because they're rich and they're on the same travel agenda as he is, or do you think it's deeper than that? Is he a true art lover? He does really like art. He actually always has, I believe. When he's at the fair, he's checking out the shit. He's there getting his face up in the Avery Singers. He's copping. He's copping pieces. He's copping. He has this hotshot art advisor, and it's a big... deal to be in the dicaprio cliff people love that shit now what is what is the plant you know what is the the how do i say this who's got who's the who's the celebrity with the best art collection in your knowledge which celebrity has the best art damn um let's see right now it would have been diplo if you listen to me uh You know, that's kind of hard to say. You can give an educated guess. I mean, someone like Johnny Depp had an incredible collection, but he started to sell off his Bosquats and stuff. For some reason, Eric Clapton has an incredible art collection, which is mind-blowing to me because he's the lamest dude ever. Hey, don't come for Clapton like that on this fucking podcast. There are many more lame people who are more lame than the Clapman. What is your problem with Clapton? Well, I mean, dude's got a history of saying some pretty questionable things about other races. That is true, but so do a bunch of Saudi princes who are also great art collectors. Right. That's a good point. I actually didn't know that about Eric Clapton. I thought he was just a guitar god who dressed cool. He's done some bad stuff. He said some bad stuff. And, like, you know, the song about his kid, it's not for me, you know. Like, you know, I like that. Is he your Chris Brown? Wow. Is he my Chris Brown? Yeah, you know what? I think that's accurate. I've been trying to figure out who my Chris Brown is for a long time. I'm sure that keeps you up at night, but I didn't know. You're welcome. Well, you know, you brought up Basquiat. Let's get into it.

Why is his legacy being absolutely tarnished? Is this company who's licensing his stuff that money-hungry, or are they just dumb? What is your take on that? They're very, very money-hungry. They spring for any opportunity to license. Who is controlling the Basquiat Foundation? It's the family, but the family is huge. He's got a ton of – it's like his parents. siblings like cousins like they have this like you know they have a pipeline of selling work through the phillips auction house and they they still phillips like a ton of work every year and then yeah so they they they got everything but they got all the actual paintings when he died like they had they own all those paintings now they're flipping they're flipping them through phillips as well as selling off the images for boxer shorts and male masturbation prices. Yeah, everything. I mean, like, you know, it's going to be a fucking, you know, little follow up Travis Scott with Basquiat burgers at McDonald's. Sounds kind of dope. Is it affecting his market or is it helping it? Is it affecting it negatively or is it actually helping it because it's such an awareness thing for, you know, for rich people who might not know. I think it might be helping it in the end because it's, like, just further cementing him as, like, this iconic, you know, globally known artist. Like, you know, I think that there are people, you know, collectors in Asia that will increasingly pay, you know, over $100 million for Abbasiat. And part of that is because of his, like, global, like, you know. Over $100 million? Yeah. Jason, get your little money out. If you ask me, if you ask me, a Basquiat painting as well as my stable of thoughts belong to the streets. Right. I agree. I mean, I, but, but now is it considered like, if you came to my house and had a Basquiat, you'd be like, this guy's corny, right? Or am I wrong? Definitely. I mean, it depends on what Basquiat it is. Like if it's like some, just like.

garbage work on paper that he made high off his ass that was obviously kind of mediocre, I feel like that's lame because he probably paid a fuckload for it. But, you know, Ken Griffin, this billionaire banker dude, just bought a giant painting for 100 mil that's like a masterpiece, and he gave it to the MCA Chicago. Or, yeah, the MC Chicago. And, like, that's pretty rad, you know? Like, if you just, like, go big on, like, a masterpiece, it's really cool. But, yeah, there are all these corny dudes who, like, have some, like, lame drawings. Like, I was in this apartment in Soho a few weeks back with some just, like, afters thing. I was about to say, what were you guys doing there? Super spreader, baby. Super spreader. No, well, okay, so technically everyone was on the roof. And it was, like, vaguely safe. I went down to take a piss into this kid's apartment. And I was like, you know, I saw these Basquiat drawings. And I was like, these are. Wait, hold on, hold on, Nate. Were the Basquiat drawings in the bathroom? Because that's a flat. No, they weren't in the bathroom. I was peeking around a little bit. And, like, I didn't know who this kid was. Like, I came there with some friends. I was obviously at Lucille before. We just ended up there. And I was like, these, this is corny. Like, this is not a good look. You know, these are obviously Basquiat's, but they're really not great. This dude is. Really fucking wealthy, obviously. This is lame. Damn, you're making me miss New York City awful art parties a lot right now. Dude, I am loving the awful art parties. No better city for awful art parties than New York. Are you out every night turning the fuck up? I mean, you know, it is most nights. Sometimes I'll just have like a... a quiet dinner or something and just stay in. But, you know, like, last night I was at Lucian. Oh, you know who was at Lucian last night? The fucking Scientologist King himself, Beck. Ooh. Beck was hanging out. Beck came back to the spot afterward. Yeah. Beck, a legend and king, and I think we've all cried to the, what's the album? Why can't I think of the name of the album? Sea Change, bitch. Sea Change.

Classic album. But also Beck, nowadays, be looking like Ellen. Am I right? Or am I right? Beck do look like canceled Ellen, but I believe that Beck is actually... I think Beck actually has distanced himself somewhat from the church. I think now it's like, oh, my family's into that and he doesn't claim the set anymore like he used to is what I've heard. Yeah, I've heard that as well, but can you ever really escape the vow of Scientology? Jason's got a lot of friends in the Scientology world from his time in nightlife in LA. Yeah, I've been recruited, sure. I'd be lying if I said that it didn't help my career. Well, that explains a lot about your career then. I believe my career was run by the Church of Scientology. I would give it all up. Number one for me, I would rather be a Jew. Jew's number one if I'm going to convert. Scientology is a close second. In terms of religions. Yes, nipping on the heels of things I would do to make more money in life, to be more connected. Got it. It sounds like I could just go eat dinner with you at Lucien every night and I would be more connected, but I'm willing to sacrifice my entire life to a religion that I don't believe in. What's an example of a hero meal at Lucien? If I were to go there and I really want to have a tour of Italy, what is the order there? It's not about the food, Jason, but go ahead. Well, it's not about the food. I know, I know, but still. The ideal meal was like three martinis, 20 cigarettes, and then a splattering of food. Gin martini or vodka martini? Gin, of course. Okay, okay, okay. You know what I think we should do? I think we should plan a How Long Gone Live at Lucien. Wow. I think that's an idea. We have a rotating cast. I'll get Press Maven. Caitlin Phillips to set up a rotating cast of characters to join us at our table, Jason, when we hold court in the back and just have quick chats. Right. I think in the meantime, we can get a green screen and we can just do it in my garage and just kind of have a Lucian booth that I buy off of eBay. I think it's going to be hard to recreate the energy, you know what I mean, with no bathroom to go to, but I understand. I like where your head's at. And in our COVID times, it might be all we can do. Chris, I can get the Coke.

Okay, cool. I didn't know if you were still connected like that, Jason. What's the music situation over there at Lucy? Honestly, I don't think there is any music right now. Usually it's like whatever's playing on Zach's iPod. Thanks, Trump. Nate, what neighborhood do you live in? You're going to blast some Salem? God, I love that fucking Salem shit. I live in Dime Square, baby. Dime Square all day, every day. So you live in Dime Square, and you're really in the heat of it now. And I've got to be honest with you. I've been in L.A. for months, and I feel like I'm losing my edge. I'm missing New York a little bit. I mean, the energy seems palpable. Am I wrong? Am I wrong to say that? It is palpable. I mean, you just mentioned Caitlin. Caitlin was in your neck of the woods. I saw her, yes. We had a business meeting. We had a regular hang. I mean, it was great to see her. She was preaching that. I need to confirm my stories with multiple sources. You know what I'm saying? I am backing up, Caitlin. New York is the best it's ever been right now. All the losers left. Don't come at me on my own fucking podcast, bro. No, Chris, we love you. We miss you. How long have you lived in New York? I've been here 10 years. Where are you from originally? D.C. area? Yep, from D.C. What is your relationship with Snake Green? Shout out Bethesda. to sweet green yeah you know my i i remember the first time my mom took me to sweet green in like on old georgetown road road for real yeah it was like one of the first ones okay yeah yeah and my mom was like this thing is new it's everyone's talking about it we got to go to sweet green and this was like yeah like 20 years ago or something salad days i don't know it's cool your mom is a food fluencer what i mean she uh is she a healthy lady is she into fitness She's a day one. She was in the fucking sweet green. She's a day one lettuce muncher. She was just on that tip. When you first got to New York, where were you partying? Were you at Lit Lounge? Were you at Max Fish? Were you at Jane? Were you at the Beatrice Inn? Were you a marquee rat? Were you a one oak slut? What's going on? Lit Lounge.

All the time, especially when I was here for a summer, back when Joe Coscarelli was living above Lit Lounge. Shout out, Joe Coscarelli. One of the more famous listeners of this podcast. We all recognize his face from this famous New York Times series, where he forces himself on camera over and over and over to try to eclipse the celebrities that are joining him as guests. So you were partying at Lit Lounge. Were you smoking cigarettes inside? I was smoking a lot of cigarettes inside. And especially in that like weird basement place where the whole study was always hanging out. Yeah, that was that was smelled very weird down there. Yeah, I actually have the smell in my brain right now. When you said that, it's kind of like a Proustian like Madeline thing for me. I'm glad we can bring you back and situate you in a time that was loose and fun. So obviously we can talk about the glory days of New York nightlife for hours, but you're saying that has it possibly returned to form, but now it's just on the streets of the East Village and the streets of Soho? Well, I mean, maybe I was exaggerating when it says the greatest of all time or whatever, but it's really... All things considered, it's going pretty well. Yeah, exactly. More than ever, because everyone's forced out on the streets, you constantly run into people. If you're just walking around, I get fucking papped by people across the street all the time. People are just running into each other all the time just because you're always outside. That dynamic is really invigorating. That has never really happened before because everyone's fucking inside. That's totally different. Can you confirm that you can see doing heroin on the street like the early 2000s? Yes, confirmed. There's also, I think, Chris, you noticed this. There's a trend of people just openly doing cocaine on the subway, apparently. That is very fucking cool. Yeah. I personally haven't seen that, but apparently it's the thing now.

honestly that's the coolest thing i've heard about new york is maybe ever it's the only it's the only way i'll take the fucking subway if you ask me yeah can you imagine foregoing the idling escalade to just hop on the train and do a couple bumps before you hit the rave in bushwick that is insane that is insane that is very cool though i did not know that so you're man you sound like you're having the time of your fucking life you're really selling it i know i mean i also have to work sometimes but you know It's really fun. It's great. Where did you work before ArtNet.com? I was at Artsy and Art News. They all have the same name. Damn, that's actually crazy. They really do. Did you grow up, did you want to be an artist yourself, or did you just want to cover the ground? No. I never wanted to be an artist, but I was always going to museums. Are your parents, do your parents work in the arts? No, uh, my dad's a lawyer, my mom's a doctor. Uh, and, uh, no, but like, you know, I was always writing like for the fucking high school newspaper, college newspaper. And when I got to New York, I was just sort of actually covering some nightlife stuff with the observer. And that kind of just like morphed into writing about the art world and then the art market. It's just kind of what I gravitated toward. It's like, it's, it's a fun thing to write about. It's a fun world. Look, I get it. I feel like I gravitate to music maybe in the same way that you do. I can't do it, but I love the personality. Fashion is the same thing. I love the personalities that are involved. Absolutely. But how often are you – I feel like most of your stuff is with – it's obviously on the business side, whatever that may mean. So does that mean you're rarely interviewing or really sitting down with artists? You're mostly talking about the deals and the ins and outs and the auctions, or is it a little bit of both? It's a little bit of both because even if it is the business side, artists are constantly involved. They're not necessarily at an auction per se, but if they have a solo booth at an art fair, they'll be there hanging out. Same thing with the gallery. They're part of the whole ecosystem. The market interests them in the same way that it interests...

anyone else in the art world so like you know they read my stuff like i'm constantly like running into artists and meeting artists like through you know dealers advisors whatever so like you know like yeah almost you know every night there's like someone just in the mix hanging out i i read a book this year about the art market that was very enlightening to me and kind of explained the process to me and i i think a lot of people don't understand that the the market is kind of um manipulated in a very serious way by gallerists and dealers alike, and maybe even artists themselves, if they're savvy. So could you maybe explain to our listeners what that would look like? If Jason is an artist, and his career is starting to pop, and then I, Chris, am his dealer, what am I going to do to increase his prices? Chris, are you saying that there's a chance that there could be some art dealers with dubious intentions afoot? there could be some dealers with dubious intentions afoot uh yeah i mean well you know the dubious intentions is they're trying to get fucking rich you know which i actually we support we support on this podcast we love getting rich so that's that's not negative but i just think that the i think that you know i just think i i knew about that to some extent but then when it was explained to me i was like oh this is actually like i think it's very fun to read about it's like it's like a game in the way that I'm sure you are attracted to it in that way too. It's like, it's, that's why it's fun to write about. Totally. And like, yeah, I mean, it is manipulated just because like, you know, it's impossible just to take one like young new artists and be like, objectively, this is the greatest new artist. It's worth like a hundred thousand. You can't just say that right after that because it's subjective. So what you do is you build. a market through connections, through associations, you know, you start to get them into really, you know, uh, just, you know, well-liked and well-known collections that are known for their star making abilities. You get them in the hands of dealers. So let's explain that for, let's explain that for a second. So there are certain people that you, if they buy your art, then you are part of a, a, an inner circle. That means you're up next, basically. Totally.

If this collector identifies you early, then that's a stamp of approval, and then others will follow suit. Absolutely. You know, like Don Amir Rubel. They have this museum in Miami. Yes, I've been there. It's great. It's fantastic. And, you know, in addition to being just some of the best collectors of the last 40 years, they also have this residency program that has an amazing track record for a sort of grooming. you know, like stars to be. And, you know, uh, they also, they make a deal with these artists that the work they make in that residency, uh, they own. So like, not only. That's the trade. You get to live in the lap of luxury and create. And then when you leave, they're keeping all of your bounty. Yep, exactly. But like that just signals that, Oh, the rebels like, like this work enough to, you know, buy it, you know, and bring it in their collection. Like this could be big, you know? And then that's when you have dealers with certain reputations like getting involved and pushing into other big name collections. And then all of a sudden, someone who bought early and got lucky puts it at auction. And if it goes for a big number, then it's like this person is now a market star. Because the auction, the numbers are public, so that dictates the price more than a private sale or a gallery sale, correct? Well, it dictates the public's knowledge of what the prices are more than anything. Because it doesn't really impact the primary market prices because those are always going to be set totally lower by their main dealers in order to keep demand high. But it influences what the public or the art-interested public thinks of that artist, if that makes sense. It does make sense, and I'm getting my checkbook out. You know what I mean? That's all I have to say. So stars are created, and then the gallery association, I think, is something that people are more familiar with, right? So if your name is attached to this and that, then that's going to be better for you.

In the music world, obviously social media and all this shit is so important now. In the art world, is it still full gatekeeper gallery stuff, or do you need to be popping on the web? It's increasingly a mix of both, I guess. I'd say it's harder for artists to break through solely on social media. Totally. there's a reason why, you know, artists like, I mean, obviously Murakami is like legit a great artist, but like, it helps. Hey, calm down there, bud. Okay. I think he's good. He's good. But like, you know, it doesn't hurt that he's got like millions and millions of Instagram followers, you know? Yeah. Uh, like, like, like, you know, that's why like when you goes and does a Murakami show, it's not just like an art exhibition. It's like a, cultural phenomenon thing. Yes, yes, yes. It puts you in a different stratosphere, but you don't need it to be successful. No, you don't need it to be successful because to be successful, like I said, it's a sort of market grooming for an artist. It doesn't necessarily need to pop off on the grams. I think that's one of the very few art forms left that you don't have to be popping on the gram. That's why I bring this up. If you're an actor, an actress, a musician, that's necessary. It's almost understood. That's part of your job. You know what I mean? So I think that being able to go and make work and do your thing and sell it is pretty freeing in some ways. You know what I mean? Obviously, there's not many people break out. There's not so many success stories, but it is. a nice path if you can carve it. Chris, does that sound like a life path that you would want to take personally? Uh, well, no, I, I have absolutely no skills, so that would probably not work, work for me, but I, I'm not saying, could you do it? I'm saying, you know, in a dream world was, does that sound nice to you? I could, I could see myself living a schnobble like existence. You know what I mean? Yeah. You're just chilling at the chippy.

Exactly. You know Schnabel's house, the Palazzo Chuby? Yes, I know it well. It's beautiful. I'm more into the Montauk property, so I can work on my big, my large-scale paintings. You know what I mean? I need space for myself, my assistants, my chef, my trainer. You know what I mean? So I think that's more a little my spirit. You're 13 children. Exactly, depending on the time of year. I think it would make a difference. Is Jim Carrey getting any better at art, or is he still pretty bad? He's still pretty bad. He's still pretty bad. I feel like one day he's going to kind of like come out and, you know, like how George W. did and be like, damn, actually, Kerry stuck with it and he's kind of killing it now. I'd like to see that one day. Yeah, me too. I hope that he can get to that W level, you know. So what's the value? What are W's going for right now? 100K? That's a great question. I mean, I don't think he's actually selling them, but if he were. I think that, you know, they would be in the, yeah, 100K level. I would be willing to pay, I would be willing to pay 100,000 US dollars for a George W. Bush painting of Jeffrey Epstein. That is what, that is, that is, I just want to put that out. Actually, yeah, it wasn't, didn't Epstein have a curious little collection? Yeah, he did, but it was mostly like. Where did you first meet him? Which house? So did you go to the island or the house uptown to see the collection? Chris, come on. I mean, you know, I didn't know him that well. My good friend Glenn, you know, introduced me to him once. Okay. He was an acquaintance, really. Well, I actually, you know, I did. I was lucky enough to meet former President Bill Clinton at ABCV, and Jason got a picture of us together. And we released that picture on Jason's Instagram the same day that the Epstein thing was going down. The day that he appeared on the flight log, the flight log was released into the public. Some people think this podcast, actually, how long gone, has some Epstein connections. But I want to clear that up. I only am friends with presidents. That is what this is. It stops with Bill. We talked about climate change and stuff. It wasn't personal.

Yeah, the only trafficking Chris does is on the 405. Exactly, Jason. Thank you. That's a freeway here in California, if you didn't know. Sorry about that. I've been on the 405. I'm actually wearing my Beverly Hills Hotel and Bungalows seersucker hat while talking to you. That's really nice. Seersucker is a nice touch. As a southern gentleman, I really appreciate that. I thought you would, Chris. So let's talk about the L.A. art scene because, you know, people are making some racket. There's this little guy named Sterling Ruby out here. He's got a big compound. There's some galleries. There's some people. But what, you know, is it really going to happen out here? Is Ed Ruscha, was he right? You know what I mean? I mean, honestly, the last two years, you know, since like Freeze opened the fair there, L.A. I think is exponentially just like become one of the world's global. leading art cities. Like, it's amazing. And it had a lot to do with, you know, Freeze coming and then a bunch of other galleries sort of popping up and then, you know, the galleries were already there getting even more stature. But, you know, it's a fun city to be in to look at art. There's incredible museums, you know, just, you know, so many great galleries. I think it could happen. I love the art scene in LA right now. Do you feel like LA has a better graph game than New York right now? Or is that still kind of up in the air? Maybe. Yeah, I think I can give that to LA. I don't know. I don't smoke that much weed. Well, a couple of years ago, I went to Houston to shoot something and was really impressed with all the art there. and Dallas-Fort Worth as well. Are there any underappreciated art cities that our listeners need to know about where they can go see some great stuff, but maybe it's a little cheaper. It's a little off the map. Chris, there's another place over there called Marfa, and they have a nice little art scene as well. I've been there before. There's a guy that makes concrete boxes. I've been there before. It's pretty cool. You'd like it. I'm a real minimal guy.

Yeah, I mean, Dallas, like you said, is actually, that's one of those cities that, like, is kind of under the radar, super rad art city. You know, like, there's a ton of, like, tiny little, like, really awesome galleries. And, you know, like, Dallas Contemporary and the DNA are both really awesome. The National Sculpture Center is awesome. Yo, shout out Bethesda, Maryland, my hometown, which is the home of Glenstone, the dopest museum in the country. Wow, tell us a little bit about Bethesda. Glenstone. Glenstone, yeah. That sounds like a medium to high-end new home development in Orange County is what it sounds like to me. Yeah, it does. But what do they have there, bro? Tell us all about it. So it's this guy, Mitch Rails. Shout out Mitch Rails. Went to Walt Whitman High School. My high school, shout out Walt Whitman. So he married his art advisor, you know, like two decades ago, and then started building this unbelievable collection. First of all, Nate, think about this could be good for you. You know what I mean? You could marry a rich woman as her art advisor, and then you dictate the collection and turn it into a museum. Damn. Really makes you think. It's not a bad call. Anyway, I'm sorry. Continue. No. And so they bought this enormous property just like half an hour from D.C., but it's in the woods. It's just like completely isolated. And they've got this ginormous Jeff Koons flower sculpture, a split rocker sculpture that's so awesome. Got a bunch of Richard Serra that's really incredible. Michael Heiser sculpture. And then in the collection, there's Basquiat. Bryce Martin and David Hannans. We are Martin Hive on this podcast. Oh, we're it? Yeah, we're Martin Hive. Bryce has been living the greatest quarantine life. I've heard that. Are you covering this? Is this a beat you're on? I'm covering it embarrassingly closely. It just goes between Tivoli and Hedra and the East Village.

making incredible fucking work. The dude is just... He's thriving. Oh, yeah. I love that. What guy named Bryce isn't, though, you know? Good point. So we need to all converge on Bethesda, Maryland. Absolutely. I mean, you know, it's a really, really dope town with Glenstone, which is rad. You know, I've been to the... The museum in Bentonville, Arkansas, where the Walmart family lives. Yes, Crystal Bridges was very impressive. You know what? I actually have never been to Crystal Bridges, but I hear Bentonville is a really wild town. I had a whole thing with the brothers, the Walmart heirs. where we were friends and they invited me there and um for something they do every a like a big event they have in bentonville so we went we went we stayed at the 21c museum hotel Chris, who got sacrificed at that meeting? I'm not going to talk about what happened there. That's between me and God. I didn't know that you were Skull and Bones Hive, but interesting. We've got to save that for another pod. People think I'm just a dumb redneck from Georgia who stumbled his way into the New York media elite, but this has been a path that was chosen for me by people bigger than us. Was it an animal sacrifice? No, human. Many small animals? No, human. I'm a PETA member. We let animals live. People don't care. It's fine. People I'm not concerned with. But yeah, Crystal Bridges was interesting. And I think that those kind of cities, I think that that is like Houston blew me away. Like I was so impressed with everything public and private. And even some of the, you know, they had Philip Johnson build it. It was just the Devin Neal is unbelievable. Like it was it was very cool. The whole thing was very cool. The Twombly thing is very cool. But so, you know, while we have you a professional, I would love to know.

Let's get into overrated artists. Who's really getting a little too much shine when they don't deserve it? Okay, love this. And choose some people that our listeners may be familiar with. Not too obscure of a name. Overrated. Damien Hirst, way overrated. Anyone who's collaborated with Supreme, would you say, is overrated? Yeah. Except for Dan Golden, I can't think of one. Right. I mean, like, you know, Jenny Holzer's, like, just evisceration of Supreme just always remains, like, a highlight. That's true. What a fucking star. What a star. So incredible. No, I mean, I think they've collaborated with, like, Christopher Wall and shit. That's true. That's true. That's a good point. Yeah, they support some cool younger artists, Chris. Yeah. Yeah, Jason, I'm sure you know all about it. So Damien Hirst, he's toast. Yeah, I mean, I just don't really care anymore. He had his moment. It's fine. But is he still selling like crazy? Yeah, I mean, like nuts. I'm not a fan of cause. cause wow you know what welcome to the hey king we were meant to be bro because if you got a cause doll in your house i ain't fucking you know what i'm saying yeah no yeah yeah chris is zipping up his seven jeans if he sees one one squeaky little cause in the foyer these paper denim cloths are not coming off tonight fellas Hide the cause into the bed when I'm coming over. But baby, it's an investment in both of our futures. I've tried that one. His market is absolutely insane still. Totally. Absolutely insane. I think that people have to have been lobotomized to pay that much for a fucking cause. I have no idea what's going on. The marketing machine at work. I mean, clearly there's something at work, you know, because you have these like sort of shadowy billionaire corporations in China just like buying these things for five, ten million dollars. It's nuts. These are paintings or sculptures or toys.

I mean, arguably they're all toys. Yeah, every cause is every one of those words you just said, Chris. Damn, I thought you guys were using cool graffiti artist slang. I like art that you can play with as a toy. It's like interactive, you know what I'm saying? It's kind of cool. Yeah, that's true. What is your take on the, you know, since you're just, I respect your opinion, what is your take on the McDonald's-Travis Scott collaboration? Is that art? Or is it merely commerce, Nate? Well, it's certainly commerce. Is it art? Kind of. I don't know. It's got legs, you know? I mean, I find myself caring about it when I don't care about it, but I care about it. We talked about that, and Jason just wrote, Jason launched his substack today with a... deep deep dive on the mcdonald's collaboration with travis scott from more of a food angle and i told him it really brought me back into it like i i stopped caring and then he he found a new way to hook me in um which i think is most the power of jason stewart and the power of of fucking cactus jack i roped you in rodeo style exactly bitch yeehaw um i think that maybe it is art in a way because The order itself is just the same thing, right? It's just a quarter pounder of cheese, right? What makes it? They also add bacon to it and extra cheese, I think. Right. But that's basically just like a normal order, right? Yes. Yeah. So it's basically just like a cause except like instead of it blue, I made it light blue. Right, yeah. It's like a Duchampian thing, really, because they're selling something that... Damn, this is good. That's fire. It's a Duchampian. Yes, go all. Yeah, it's just like a normal object that they're presenting as, oh, this is a Travis Scott thing now, and that's what's selling. There's nothing... The product itself is the same. Absolutely. And I think that's... Yeah, that's kind of like... And we've been falling for that for centuries.

Yeah, yeah. So it's not even new, yeah. But it's art. Yeah, okay. That's the verdict. It's art. So confirmed it is art. It is art, yeah. Congrats, Travis. You did it. And it tastes bad. I love that. Oh, does it? Jason, I need to read your sub stack. Give it a read. Let me know your thoughts. But yeah, it may taste as good as the food from Fame Lucien. It might. I'm kind of more interested in the spicy nuggets. I've heard that the spicy nuggets are actually pretty good. Yeah. I'm not a big nugget man myself. Really? Mm-hmm. I mean, there's no McDonald's in Dime Square yet. I don't know when that's coming. Yeah, so what's going on in Dime Square? Have there been any closures or anything? Any road closures going on? Is Servos still open? Let me just go on the record. Mission Chinese is bad. Mission Chinese was bad, Chris. Mission Chinese is bad, and honestly, he's kind of annoying. I got to be honest. What do you find annoying about Chef Danny Boyan? Well, I hate how his style of dressing really bothered me to the point where I think it made the food taste different. Yeah, some bad dressing will ruin any meal. I will say Danny Bowen, though, very good at SoulCycle. I used to see him all the time, and that motherfucker really got it in. That is enough for me to like him as a person. Is he a fellow recovering drug addict? I think he... I don't know. I think he parties. I think he might be sober as a gopher. I think he's sober. Anyone who's really good at SoulCycle is usually a sober person. Unfortunately, I do have incredible rhythm and I can tap it back very well. That's SoulCycle terminology. You can tap it back? What does that mean, Chris? It means when you move your ass towards the seat and tap it while flexing your core on the beat of the song.

This is like a pussy popping type of scenario. It's similar. It's similar. It's similar to a pussy pop only with the rear. Oh, it's a boozy pop is what you're saying. It's a boozy pop, but you have to keep the core engaged is the real key to that move. Your shoulders are relaxed. Your hands are relaxed. Your core is rock hard and your ass is flexed. Your glutes are flexed and engaged. Tap the seat right back on rhythm. Sometimes you do a push-up when you get to the front after in a sequence, but it just depends. Can you hear in his voice how bad Chris misses SoulCycle? I mean, that was one of the most beautiful things I've heard in months. Thank you. The evocation, the rhythm of you describing. A love letter to SoulCycle. I speak passionately about things that I'm passionate about, and I'm not going to be shamed for it, Jason. You're passionate about indoor activities that cost $40 an hour. Yeah, that honestly sounds like doing coke. Anyway, so Mission Chinese is a casualty. Servos is open. Servos is lit. It's so good. It's lit. It's lit. They blocked off Canal Street so no carts can come by. So Dime Square is literally a square now. It is a public gathering place, which is amazing. Okay. Yeah. Did Metrograph close? Did Metrograph close? I don't know if it closed permanently, but it's certainly not open at the moment. Wow. I think friend of the show, Flynn McGarry, the young chef, opened his bakery. Actually, I ran into Flynn at guess where? At Louisiana. Oh, wow. Give me that time. Wow. I had no idea. told him congrats on the bakery, he's not actually involved anymore. He passed it on to the partners he was working with. Well, we'll get to the bottom of the bag. I hope Big Daddy Flynn got a little payout.

Yeah, I hope so too. I think he's balling out in Copenhagen right now. He is. He's back in Europe. I need to bang his line and see what the fuck he's doing. I know that motherfucker's got an American passport and I see him gallivanting all over Europe. I want fucking answers. Chris, you need to start pickling some elderflower and then maybe you'll get the fuck out. Don't be a fucking gnomonarch, dude. Don't be a gnomonarch. Look. I don't really like pickled stuff that much, so maybe I'm just going to be stuck in America for the rest of my life. We get it. You're white. We get it. So when is the Artnet.com office going to reopen, or is there no date? I mean, there's no hard and fast date. Technically, I can go into the office, but it's on the 24th floor of the Woolworths building. To get in the fucking elevator, you have like a wait because it's one person at a time. Those elevators are that old. So you haven't been back in a long time? I have not been back since, yeah, early March. It's just you, Carrie Bradshaw style, pecking away at the MacBook Pro in the window looking over Dime Square. That's literally what I do all day long. It's like very Carrie Bradshaw, but in Dime Square. What are you doing for physical fitness? How are you keeping the bod tight and right? You know what? I've been doing that city bike thing. A lot of city bike. Big fan. City bike? Chris, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, look, man. I think of that as transportation. But some people think of it as exercise. That's about all the exercise I get, though. Are you riding it to Jersey? How many miles are we logging on the city bike? I take it to Brooklyn occasionally when I have to go to Brooklyn. Faithfully, I've not been in New Jersey for quite some time. When you get to go to Brooklyn, not have to. This podcast is anti-Brooklyn. Don't forget it. That's a benchmark of this. I feel like Jason, if he lived in New York, he might live in Brooklyn. Would you agree with that, Jason? I would probably...

I would probably live there, yeah, even though I don't like going to Brooklyn. When I'm in New York, I try to stay in Manhattan the whole time just because I can just walk everywhere. Put those new balances to work. I love walking, and that's the biggest thing I miss about being trapped in L.A. Are you still in that hotel thing, Chris? I'm looking at the pool right now, sweetie, and it's shining. Damn. Well, hey, look, Nate, come on out anytime, bro. I would love to host you in my pool. Well, that sounds great, Chris. I think that I will eventually have to flee this place when it gets cold because it gets cold. Have you been there the entire time? I was in the Catskills for the first three months. Damn, okay. Was it good or was it boring? It was good and boring. I mean, farming is... Not that much fun, you know, building a farm, building a garden. It's like, eh. So, Nate, thank you for joining us. Of course, Chris. This was a blast. And we're going to need you to tell people where they can find you on the World Wide Web. You can find me. You know, I got a Twitter. It is nfreeman1234. The Instagram is the same. Hit me there, you know. And wet paint. Wet paint drops every Friday morning. Artnet.com. Check it. Every Friday morning. We'll make sure to get you this link so you can include it in tomorrow's dispatch. I absolutely will. This will be up tonight. I'll send it over to you. Honestly, I love reading the column. That's not the only reason why we had you on the show, though. That's true. We had you on because we like you. I like you guys. You guys are the best. This was so much fun. Thank you. I think it was great. It was our pleasure. Honestly, keep doing what you're doing. You made New York, my beautiful home, sound even better than I can imagine. One day I'll return and I will have...

a sparkling water with you while you go to the bathroom at Lucien. That sounds perfect. I can't wait. Thank you. We'll talk to you soon, bro. Have a good one. Bye.