024. - Joel Golby

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... and podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Buongiorno. Buongiorno. What's up? Sorry, just watching this new Thrasher Blondie video. Almost had to cancel the podcast. Is he the only skater who you check for in terms of footy? No, I love skate. I watch skate videos constantly, actually. I'm a big quarter snacks reader. You watch skate videos constantly? Not constantly, but I watch skate videos pretty often. I love skate videos. You'd be checking for them. I'd be checking for skate videos, yeah. I think there's a handful of industries that have been really positively infected by Instagram more than others, and I think that skateboarding and tattooing are two of those. Positively affected. Yeah, I just think skateboarding... It's benefited a lot from the gram. Yeah, exactly. And tattooing, I know for a fact, guys make thousands of more dollars because people can see their work and make appointments directly with them in one step. What about the graph game? I think that's really... Unfortunately, the graph game is not the most profitable from what I understand unless you pivot into street art, which is frowned upon. Or tattooing. bombing trains and getting fire footy is not really going to increase the bank account, but it is going to make you cooler. So you're into these activities, artistic expressions, purely based on commerce and not for the love of the game. Absolutely not, Jason. I just think that graffiti is actually, I mean, you know I love graffiti. It's a fool's errand at the end of the day. But I do think that it's tough. I mean, as a lifestyle, I think it's very tough to do it deep into adult life. I think it's not very forgiving. It's hard to put down on your paperwork, occupation, stealing Arcteryx windbreakers as your main source of income.

Yes, that is true. Where are you going to keep all those caps? Blondie is interesting to me because he's so good at skating, but he does all this other stuff that's kind of mediocre. What are his other things that you find to be mediocre? Clothing design? Collaborations? What else? Basically that. Life partner choices? No, that's fine. I have no comment on that. I think the choice of wearing high socks really bothers me. I just really don't like it. What type of sock is he wearing that has been pulled all the way up? I would imagine it's either Adidas, one of his sponsors. tames his brand not the brand but like the style is it is it like a dress sock or is it just like a normal like white ribbed athletic sock i think it's a little bit of both to be honest with you i think exactly while skateboarding it's more athletic to to to accommodate you know uh the sporting of it all Uh, but I just find that look to be bad. Like, I don't really get where that comes from or where he's like, we all steal our looks from somewhere. Like who did he see doing that? Thought it looked cool and then started to emulate it. Uh, I mean, I guess the pulled up sock thing, you know, just from my experience is sort of like cholo gang culture. True. But he's, he's a British man who talks about beans and drinks tea. So. Right, right, right, right. Well, you know, skate culture was really infected by that vibe and then like suicidal tendencies type of Venice. Oh, yeah, that's such a good point. And then you pull the shorts, the Dickey shorts down, the socks get pulled up, and then suddenly you look kind of like a badass guy. And then if you fight a guy who has socks pulled up all the way, you're going to lose. It's the Black Air Force One of skating.

Defined, no question. Yeah, I just find, but I mean, that video of him getting hit by a car is so legendary. Like, that's one of the craziest pieces of skate footage I've ever seen. But when I see, I don't know, I know hardly anything about Blondie except for the fact that he is like a Instagram influencer slash professional skateboarder. He was like a palace. writer yes he he was og palace wayward boys club or whatever and then he he i don't know and then he kind of became a darling of skating and then he started fucking models and you know getting runway show invites it's a classic tale a classic like i'm so good at skateboarding i could do this forever but i'm teased by the drink and drug and sparkling nightlife uh and now he's sober and you know he's still good at skating but he like you know doesn't seem to be that interested in it maybe i'm wrong um well you know he's he's getting older it's it's it's harder yeah he's 24 you're right he's only 24 damn never mind no he's young as fuck that's the thing these guys get i mean i think it's um people get disenchanted i i don't know what it's like to be really good at something so i i can't say but there's there's a there's a pretty a kind of time honored tale of people who are so good at something, not wanting to do that thing, because maybe because they're so advanced, they get bored with it early. But like, if you're 25 years old and you're that good at skateboarding and it's paying all your bills, like what's the, what's the big deal? Maybe he, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe he loves skateboarding. I could be totally wrong. He probably does. But whenever I see somebody like that, who is a little bit. as much if not more so known for the image and the the lore behind him instead of like the the skill and the talent you know like people could become fans of somebody like that because they're really cool looking they dress interestingly they hang out with crazy people and fuck models and all of that is really interesting about them and you can be a fan of his without even caring or knowing about skateboarding

Leads me to believe, you know, if he's posting these iconic videos of him getting hit by a car, you know, maybe he staged that. Who knows? No, you got to watch the video. It's truly incredible. I've seen it. But I'm saying that I don't think that he staged this car accident, but I'm saying he was probably like, I hope we got that on footage of me getting hit by a car because that's going to be. great for my image as a badass skater bro well i mean jason i think no shots no shots that's cool i think because the also the reality of skateboarding is that career can only go so long because of what it does to your body so you need to be thinking about your your exit strategy and that's why a lot of these skateboarders are so rich is because they own the brands or started the brands or own a portion of the brand And there's not that many industries where it's like owned and operated by the, you know what I mean? It's like a chef owner. You're talking about for us, by us mentality? I'm talking about a for us, by us mentality. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, these guys are like, that's how you get really rich. You know what I mean? It's like selling t-shirts and skateboards. I'm from Huntington Beach, bro. You don't have to tell me the formula. You start the brand and then you wait for a freaking, the guy who owns Hurley to buy you out. And then you go to a sick house in Costa Mesa and then you hang out with some dudes who work at Ruka. That could have been you if you weren't so tall. Take the boat out on the weekend. That sounds pretty cool except for the whole doing it thing. The amount of money required to participate in those activities sounds cool to have. Oh, absolutely. I'm interested in getting to the bottom of this friendship I've noticed blossoming on Instagram between Wes from American Nightmare and Cold Cave and Tony Hawk. They're bros. Okay, so... Okay, I never listened to American Nightmare. I heard a couple Cold Cave songs. They were kind of like goth, electronic, dancey kind of vibe. Yeah.

And then American Nightmare was, I'm assuming, a bad hardcore band. I wouldn't say bad. I would say modern legend to some. As far as that era goes. What city were they from? Boston, of course. Come on. Say no more. That's all we have to say. The best hardcore comes from Boston for some reason. The best hardcore comes from Boston, but it was being made back when they were... They wore their racism on their sleeve instead of secretly hiding their racism like an American nightmare. This isn't 10-yard fight, bro. This is a Morrissey Joy Division loving one-handed man. I'm just interested because I think the through line is Atiba. I think Atiba is somehow involved in their friendship. That makes sense. I'm going to try to get Wes from Cold Cave on the show. I think it would be cool to talk to a hardcore legend on how long gone. This always seems to happen when I talk shit, and then eight minutes later, it's like, all right, he's on the show. The only thing that has saved me is that these people don't listen to the show. Otherwise, can he kick my ass is the question. I mean, I don't think it'd be very hard to kick your ass for most people, to be honest. Answer the question. Yes, he could. Yeah, he could. Shit, really? God damn it. Dude, think how many fights a guy that's been in hardcore this long has been in. But you said they're like a Morrissey type of. No, no, no. That was the whole reason, I think, part of their popularity is because that's like what he referenced and what he loved, but they still were heavy as hell. Right, right, right, right, right. Okay. I was listening to The House yesterday. I almost kicked some stuff over because I was moshing. I'll give it a listen. I don't think that's probably necessary. I mean, it's just weird because it's one of those bands that they also reunite. They still play and put out music relatively often. And I think that's cool too. There's no beef and we just do this sometimes when we feel like it. Yeah, I agree. Because money.

If you're a hardcore band, you never made any money to begin with. That's my rule on reuniting. If you never made a lot of money the first time and people care that much, you should be able to reunite with no shame and make money the second time. I agree with that. You put in the work and now it's time to collect on those dividends. No, no, no. Exactly. And then you go and you play your reunion show. You get paid $500. You split that between six people. And then your wife and kids are in the car. No, we can only get one hotel room at the Holiday Inn. It's tough. We don't have time right now to get into this, but I would like to talk about you going to the Strife reunion show. We never talked about that. Talking about a California takeover? The California Takeover Live 2. Dude, every day I look into my closet and I see my Animal Liberation t-shirt hanging in there. And I'm like, not today, but soon. I mean, if you didn't buy anything, was it even worth going? That's my thoughts exactly. And if you're going to buy a t-shirt while Moby is watching you, it's going to be the one that says... Was disgraced Tattoo King Moby there? Yeah, I talked to him. Why did we never talk about this? What did you say? He didn't talk back to me, but I did talk to him. I mean, I was the only one there pretty wasted. Did you say Little Pine sucks in between songs? No, I was talking to some old photographer guy I knew way back in the day, and he's like, oh, let's get a picture with them jeans and Moby together. And I was like, Moby, what up? Hey, man. Sorry to hear about everything going on. You did not, Jason. I think the tats look good, and he just straight up just said nothing to me. Jason, was he there alone? Yes, he was. God, that little bald freak. I can't believe he would go all the way to Orange County alone. It was in Atlanta. It was downtown. Okay, that's fair. He probably took a car service there too, so I don't feel that bad for him. Definitely. He's not walking back to the parking lot alone.

Moby is so fucking rich, dude. I don't even want to know how rich he is. After reading those books, it sounded like he was really on another level than I thought he was. I think he's rich as hell. Much like Chris Brown. I'm Team Breezy and Moby. Shut the fuck up. Team Breezy. I can't even get into this. Today on the show, we're once again crossing the bloody pond. To talk to another British guest today, it is author and writer Joel Golby. You may be familiar with his book, Brilliant, Brilliant, Brilliant, Brilliant, which is a fucking great name for a book. You missed one brilliant. There's five, not four. Oh, there's five. Sorry, I can't read. The book was really big in the UK and then got released in America, which is always a good sign if you're a writer. His kind of, you know, it's essays, it's takes on modern life. He's a funny guy. And I think it was time for us to, you know, dip our toe back into the British pool again, get an update on what's going on over there. Jolly good fun. Jolly good fun. Let me bang his line. And we're going to talk about his line quite a lot. Bang his mobile. All right, bye. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web. So do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could, you know, have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools so those future graduates can find me. And, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area.

You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early. And we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and that are just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated.

but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Oh, wait. Oh, oh. Hello? There we go. Is that you, Joel? That's me. How's it going? It's going great. How are you? Pretty good. You just missed the NHS clap for our heroes. I've gotten a lot of trouble. Every time we podcast with a Brit, they always tell us, oh, we just finished clapping. Yeah, it's on the hour every hour at the moment we've got it up to. That's not true, is it really? When you say it like that, I believe you. You've got to wake up in the middle of the night and start with my fever, baby. You guys are doing so much more than we are here. You're making us look bad. Yeah, we are, but we're making ourselves look worse. I think at this point the whole goal of the pandemic is to make Britain look as stupid as possible. We've gone a step further and had a completely insane murder happen of an unarmed black teen jogging. No one looks worse than America. We always will win. You take the cake on that one. What's your... When you're not...

murdering black teenagers for no reason what's the situation like nationwide are you all locked down and shit like that it's yeah i mean i can tell you you will be a good podcast guest already my friend uh i'm actually in canada uh and it's pretty mellow here uh but jason's in la which is home of the pandemic prepper which i think it's a little more serious there okay yeah people are you canadian no no no my girlfriend lives here so i'm just i've been here for two months oh okay how okay we won't get into canada versus america it's not worth it you know what i'm quite interested in actually i can't wait to to hear this one back and um hear our like how English I sound in the context of both of your voices. You sound very English. Are you trying to sound more English on this podcast subconsciously or less? Oh, I'm talking to you through a decoder right now. This is nothing like my actual voice. But one weird quirk of the English accent that I always notice is like when... an isolated English accent pops up in an otherwise American film, it just suddenly sounds like the most put-on, sort of over-posh, like, butler voice. No matter how scummy the actor or actress the voice is coming out of actually is, they sound like... They sound like a very well-to-do servant in the context of all the American voices around them. If the character doesn't have that extreme accent, then we won't, as Americans, be able to tell if they are British or not. We need to really hammer it in. Or even that they're speaking English, right? You've got to have the accent just to know. For a British film, when an American bro appears on screen,

I assume it's the same version. Yeah, yeah. I won't do it, obviously. I told myself I wouldn't do an American accent on this one. Well, don't worry. We'll do a British accent plenty because we do it no matter who the guest is. Yeah, I've noticed. How does that make you feel, Joel? I like it. I feel like it's a handshake across the ocean for me. Good answer. That's what it's meant to be because it's nothing but respect for my country. As you know, England has given us more than its fair share of great stuff. I mean, Jason and I both have a great respect. Yeah, you guys fucking rock over there. You guys fucking rule, man. Ed Sheeran, stuff like that. Exactly. Before we get into Ed Sheeran, we need to unpack you having an Android phone. We've done this podcast three times a week for two months. You're the first person to have one. Fuck off. Really? I think I'm going to be sick. Are you serious? I thought you had a pretty good book thing going, but I guess you're poor. I didn't realize that. Well, no, at this point, it's a lifestyle choice. It's kind of, you know, it's a thumb in the face of the man to have the inferior smartphone. Like, fuck you. I don't want iMessage. I don't want that usability across both my laptop and my phone. Fuck that. No, no, don't talk down on the Android. We want you to own it and sell us on it, please. Yeah, that's where we're going. Okay, well, I was, listen, before six months ago, I was a normal person like both of you. And I'd had an iPhone for about 10 years. It was great. I was so, like, resolute.

Yeah, it was so good. Like the apps, stuff like that. I was just convinced that I would never be able to even like use another keyboard or if they even moved where the button at the bottom was, I'd be like, well, I'm too dumb and too old to move around that. So I'll just have to... Yeah, another iPhone. That's how I thought. And then I dropped my iPhone in a sink where it both shattered and flooded. It was like a double doozy. That's how I order my pancakes from Waffle House. Carry on. Double doozy. Double doozy. Isn't that mean an Outburger? Yeah, it could be. It could be a special off-menu item in the American chain restaurant. Yeah, you see, that failed joke was my attempt to handshake across the ocean. Decent attempt. I had a go. Anyway, yes, my girlfriend had a spare phone and she was just like, take this Android until you get a real iPhone, just use this. And then it was fine. It only took me like... Okay, only. It took like three weeks to adjust, I'll be honest. But then it's fine. Did she get that Android at like some type of activation or influencer party? Yeah, she literally just sent her pixels. Even when she doesn't ask for them, they just keep turning up. We sort of use them to like... write tables and stuff like that. Okay, so you do know what it's like to be an American because we all get those free as well. You know, all my friends that have received a Google phone, they only use it for content purposes because they claim the camera is superior to the iPhone camera. Yeah, the camera and the battery life are better. It's like a perfect festival phone.

But I'm resigned to using it in my real life at this point. That's some good copy right there. That is good copy. When I finally hit Glasto, I know whose line I'm banging to get my fucking Google phone so I can take pics of my willies. I have been looking for a good festival phone. Obviously, that went put on hold because of the whole COVID thing. Things are opening up back again and it's time to start sniffing around for a good one. You guys don't really have festivals in the same way, I suppose. Have you guys collectively been to European festivals? The fact that you're firing shots at Coachella, Jason's hometown festival. Legendary, groundbreaking music festival. So you said we don't have festivals like... Like you guys have festivals. What do you mean by that exactly? Obviously, you know that we have music festivals here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before this becomes like an international incident, which I wasn't intended, what I mean is like, okay, so the key difference from what I can tell, I've never experienced Coachella, but the key difference is every single day, everyone turns up and they have had a shower, like every day. Because they've been staying at a hotel or in their house and they've come to the site on the day. Whereas here, festivals, it's not about the line-ups, it's not about the shows or the fireworks or the holograms or whatever. What it's about is there's a certain feral creature that comes out of every festival when they go to one in England where they sort of... They just rub wet wipes on themselves every morning after sleeping in a sweaty tent. And they're still drunk from four days ago. And they're caked in mud. And everyone's turning their underwear inside out. And it's vile. It's horrible. And you come home shell shocked. Do even the posh celebs and hotties do the same thing? The hotties, good question. No, look.

Sienna Miller would never do that. Fuck off. Sienna Miller would have the best of both. So she would have a special Sienna. She would have a Sienna Miller caravan backstage, non-negotiable at every festival, even if she's not scheduled to be there. The caravan is. She will stay and sleep and rack out tiny little lines within it. But she will also venture out of the VIP into the mud and the muck of the people, crucially. the people. She'll float through them and smell the vinegary smell and then go back to safety. One festival, my most beloved one from childhood, as a five-year-old boy, when I was a late teenager, it was Leeds Festival. The thing that they do in the campsites on the last night of Leeds Festival every time is it's not like bacchanal but it's it's the same feverish energy but they put it into destruction they like trash tents they set them on fire they like throw cans of beer at each other like cannonballs it's it's like animals a lot of people leave like right after the last headliner to run to the car park and like put all their shit in a car and then just get in a queue out of the festival but doesn't really let them out of the car park to like four or five they have just to avoid all the people who are sort of setting off fireworks in their own tent i like that so so yeah festivals are different for you guys than it than it is yeah they're a bit different you guys are disgusting and drink stella artois in a can and like biffy cliro that is the major difference i think we we That's our national psyche. We do Molly and listen to Calvin Harris. It's small differences, really. Have you heard Calvin Harris' music? Yeah, I'm aware of famed Scott Calvin Harris. It's jolly good stuff. Jolly good. I forgot that he was Scott. You ridiculous little man.

Joel, if you only knew, he's not little. This man is 6'10". Joel, did I see that you're also a tall fellow? Yeah, I'm not that big. I'm not quite so large. Do you know how tall you are in inches? I'm 6'4". You and I are pretty similar in height then, Joel. That's nothing to sneeze at. It is a tall boy. Joel, do you have tattoos? No. Okay, good. Then we would hit every, because this is already a podcast hosted by two white men with tattoos. Okay. Do you both have tattoos? I have more than Jason, but Jason has some well-placed ink. He's pulling them off the best, though. Oh, definitely me. yeah jason uh well what is your definition of pulling it off does that mean you you wear it well or you you're okay the reason the reason i don't have tattoos is i'm just fundamentally not a tattoo guy i just can't get away with it i'm just not that that's my demeanor nothing about my demeanor says yeah tattoo my demeanor says like i asked the teacher I reminded the teacher that they said homework was due. But what did you grow up, what were you into? Were you into cool stuff or were you a dork? Surely every guest on this podcast has the exact same answer to that. Oh, no, no, no. I was very cool. I was overweight and maybe overconfident, but I was very cool. He was a cool fatty. Exactly, my own mind. But what, were you into music or were you like, had your nose in the books? No, I was like one of those, I was one of those sort of adolescents who like, the internet hit at like the exact wrong and right time for me. So like, it hit developmentally, the internet getting big and my puberty.

they went hand in hand so i was talking about jacking off not jacking off it sounded a lot like jacking off i mean there was some some of that was in there i'm not gonna sure shy away from that fact but um not in a weird way but like uh just sort of like a a friday night spent just surfing the forums You know? I think we all did. I mean, we're all the same age or similar age, I bet. I mean, I'm 37. Jason's 45. How old are you? That's not true. Yeah, I'm 32. Yeah, so you're a little younger than us, but I mean, Jason and I probably both remember like getting the internet for the first, like having dial-up and shit for the first time. Well, I don't understand how you could, how can you simultaneously be like a teenage forum nerd, but also, as you said, a big bouncy cool guy it all uh to me it all depends on what forums you are in exactly are you in a magic the gathering forum then then you're probably not very cool are you in a forum about like really cool music or something or you know i don't know there's there's forums about good and bad what kind of forums were you in uh my my first forum it's like a confession first forum was like uh Age of Empires 2 Forum. Chris doesn't even know what that is. That's how deep we are. I don't know what that is, but I really hope it's not a video game or a Star Wars movie. It's a game. It's like a PC game. Worse than video. Okay, continue. So you've been an Android guy for a while now. Okay. The thing is, I think quite often about all the moments where my life could have really been way worse and gone off in a way worse tangent. Age of Empires forum version of me could have persisted into adulthood and he would have been a really unbearable person to be around. I feel like through my life there's been a lot of cultural bullets dodged in that way.

Yeah, you would not have a girlfriend right now if you stuck down that path, I'm assuming. No, I would have bought my own Android after actively participating in Android forums and slagging off iPhone because of the inferior processor power, which is a thing I would know about. Yes. And I would tell people at work at my job in IT about. how they should all switch to Android because it's the future. That's the person I'd be. And out there, if you subscribe to Infinite Universe Theory, there's so many more, way more annoying versions of me bouncing around out there. Yeah, they haven't seen anything yet. No. I would say, but you grew up in Leeds? No, I grew up in... How up on your English geography are you? Oh, well, try me, buddy. I'm very bad at it. Okay, mate. No, I'm not great either. Okay. Well, I grew up fairly near Sheffield, which is obviously a key music city in the pretty much exact center of England on the map. When did you move to London? Like early, early? No, after university, so like 21. Oh, wow. You waited a little bit. So you stayed out there until you could no longer deal. Well, yeah. Yeah, you've got to get all your school out of the way before you move. Before you go to London and just start doing so much coke and listening to Libertines? Yeah, exactly. Unless you're preternaturally cool. I said that word wrong, but you get the gist, which I very clearly wasn't. I kind of had to go to university to become a... a less annoying i've almost said unannoying but i could already see the emails coming in a less annoying person so like i i went to and i i went to university i was like this really sort of chubby schlubby sort of uh the cheapest glasses in the spec savers store kind of no haircut uh virgin boy and then like i left um i like i was

I was still partly like that, but less so. And then I could go to London and be like, oh, what's up, mate? Camden. I'm not a virgin anymore. No, I'm no longer a virgin. That's good to know. What did you do before? Where did you work before you started writing? Or did you just bullshit your way into it? No, it took me ages to bullshit my way in. You know what? I was actually writing an essay about that today. Um, because I was, um, thinking about my first ever job in London where I worked, um, I worked at a drama department of a university, like working admin, um, sort of printing out letters and stuff for the students. Um, and I was there for like two and a half years. And I hated it because like, I hated, um, I kind of hated doctors before I started working there. And then having to be around sort of budding. Actors are always budding before they make it. But did anybody go on to be famous? Yeah, I printed out a council tax letter for Emilia Clarke. Wow. That's a very British sentence you just said right now. That is a pretty big deal. What is she on? Game of Thrones? Yeah, she was a baddie out of Game of Thrones. I've never watched that show because it just doesn't appeal to me. Did you just say she was a baddie on Game of Thrones? Yeah, there's either goodies or baddies. She was a baddie. Okay, so a baddie to you means a villainous character. What does a baddie mean to you? In America, a baddie means you are an attractive person. You're a hot chick. Is usually what that means. You've heard Michael Jackson bad. He used that word as a positive affirmation. Same vibe. You guys are still going on about that? Okay. Language has just been static there for like 35 years. This is what you're telling me. I don't know how much American stuff you pay attention to.

Who are your top five favorite rappers? I'm not going to... I don't know. I'm not going to get out. This is a trick question. I'm not answering it. I'm not playing your game. James Blake, James Blake, and James Blake. He does have a rap album out over here, actually. He has become... He's so uncool now with that girlfriend and defending her. He ruined his career, I think, a little bit. Oh, did he just confuse the Jameses? No. Did he say Blake or Bay? James Blake. First of all, no one in America knows who James Bay is except me. And that's because I have friends that work in the music business. He's an industry plant. Well, who's James? Which James are you talking about? We're talking about James Blake, the crooning R&B singer. He's dating this girl, Jamila Jamil, who has been cancelled. That's not James Blake, that's James Bay. No, it's not. It's James Blake 100%. Wow, wow. I'm going to have to teach you about your own people, Joel? Wait, who's the Blake? There's also a tennis player named James Blake. No, but who sang You're Beautiful? That is not James Blake. That is James Blunt. James Blunt. You're still wrong. I'm right. You're wrong. But I appreciate that. Can we cut the whole bit where I didn't know James Blake Bay? No, that's staying in because it's pretty good stuff. Yeah, you can have your publicist call us if there's really an issue, but we're going to probably keep that out. Okay, tell me what he's done, whoever he is. Well, he's dating this actress who has been found to lie about having all these crazy medical conditions. And it's this whole thing. Yeah, there's a name for that disorder. I forgot what it was, though. Oh, which house is by proxy, right? That's right. Oh, I think you might. Yes, you are right. She's a muncher. Yeah.

She's a muncher. She munches. Thank God I came back with that one. Oh, she's redeemed herself and then some. Okay, so it's James Blake and Jamila Jamil, and she sings with a particular note of unbearableness. What happened, I think, originally was she was going to be a judge on a drag. or not drag, ballroom dancing, like the historically, you know, gay, trans nightlife thing. I guess. She tried, then she came, then she was getting killed because like, why the fuck did you get this regular ass girl to judge something that she has no idea about? And then she was like, I'm bi, actually. And that didn't go over very well. And then people dug deeper and she said crazy shit about being stung by a thousand bees. It really went all the way down to these insane stories. I used to be a real James Blake fan. And now, I don't know, because of all this, I don't even want to listen to his new... If he puts out a new song, I'm just like, I don't really need to listen to it. Okay, okay. But if he put out a new song that... like leaned into it like if he if he did a song that was explicitly like a love song for the girl and her thousand bees would that win you back it already sounds like a James Blake song title but uh I think it might bring me back only because it would make me think he had a sense of humor which I clearly don't think he does uh because he like staunchly defended her in public which is just stupid like why say anything no one needs to hear from you bro yeah why defend your girlfriend it leads me to it makes you wonder what what is so great i mean there has to be some really amazing things about her that have made this person look we we know what you're trying to say you can stop trying to be pc about it but we know what you mean uh i'm not just talking about the pussy

Chris, I'm talking about... You're saying Jamila hitting it right. It could be head game crazy. It could be some other things. But it could also just be like, what if she's like an amazing, funny, interesting person to hang out with? What if she's just really supportive and quite kind? Or it could be something sexual as well. I think... How hard would the internet have to cancel your girlfriend for you to dump them? That's a good point. You're playing by different rules, though. He's got a career to think about in the public eye. He's one of those guys that the music is so sensitive and dark and popular that he needs to have very little contact with the outside public, in my opinion. Headline's a headline, though, isn't it? No such thing as bad publicity. James Blake's girlfriend has a thousand diseases. That's the headline. I'm clicking on that. We all clicked on it. I just don't know if it necessarily benefited him. I, in fact, think it negatively impacted him. At what point do you stop thinking about the career and start thinking about the human being who lives in your house? Where does the line blur? Well, if you're a real celebrity, you don't think about anybody but yourself, and that's why you are where you are. So you're mad at him for his empathy? I'm disgusted by it, to be honest with you. It's a bit gross. It's a bit gross. Also, any good publicist would tell him to distance himself from Jamila, not defend, especially when she's pretty wrong. It's pretty proven. I disagree with you because Jamila Jamil, obviously, her career has been more of a thing over here before she was in The Good Place. She's British, right? Yeah, so she was a TV presenter on T4, which is a kind of MTV level kind of grouping in a studio, asking awkward questions to celebrities, saying that they don't really do anymore. So she kind of did that and then went away for about five years. She was probably in the hospital for one of those bees. Well, yeah, she was getting hit by cars and fucking chased by wasps.

that's a tough half decade and then she like she popped up in the good place and it was like oh okay and also a very good example of uh british accent in the context of american accents sounding more british than it is um and then yeah so she kind of went from like not being wildly famous anymore over here to be like million follower shit kind of doing loads of like uh body posi movement stuff to her one million uh twitter and two million instagram followers so by that metric her she's she is on the rise and if you get if you get cancelled by if you get cancelled on twitter at the worst it's basically like 30 000 people all of who think like libraries are really important and sleep weird hours like those those kind of the four before a.m hours sort of cancellation tumblr aggregate people they're mad at you for a bit because okay you lied about getting attacked by wasps whatever normal people don't care they don't give a shit there's a million of those cunts queuing up to follow her on twitter but she's still going She's still going big up. She knows exactly what she's doing. Bring on the wasps. Merely a speed bump on the road. Yeah. See, I don't disagree with you for her, but for him, he's playing, he looks like a dork who's a puppy dog for his famous girlfriend. And that's bad. That is bad. Yeah, I think it would help his career if he was like a budding pop star or if he was, you know, but if he's this musician who makes us really, emotional kind of dark depressing like lullaby music and then you know it doesn't her personality and her problems and her celebrity doesn't really fit in with that he needs i want him to be elusive i wanted to be living near a pond and he just walks around alone in a trench coat and that's about it yeah i guess it's not cool to know that he is like in a mansion right now

being having having a concept explained to him and like she's found a tweet that she's made really big on the ipad from some like 27 follower nobody who just said like what what bitch and she's like holding it up to him like what what do you actually think about that and he's like having to have those conversations earnestly that's what i'm saying because he's already he looks like a dork like he looks dorky so that doesn't help him either Has he released music since she became publicly diseased? No, I think... He's released a couple singles, but it's not anything. It's not hitting the way his earlier work was hitting, for sure. It hits different now. It hits different. It ain't Pitchfork 8.8, best new music, I'm telling you that. He's also been doing a lot of covers on Instagram Live, of course, which seems like a cry for help. Yeah, I'm afraid that he's going to turn into a Chris Martin type of person. With a couple's false moves, he could get there quickly. The only thing cool, Chris Martin put out one great album and a handful of good songs, and now he's just a legendary stick man, and that's what he does now. Do you know what a stick man is, Joel? No. Care to wager it, Wes? Go ahead, TJ. It's a person who... fucks a lot and enjoy and fancies himself a good fucker yeah he he gets it done he gets exactly and i think chris martin having children with gwyneth paltrow who's i mean just something else and and now top of the top she is can you imagine can you imagine what he's done behind the scenes that we don't know about oh my god the undocumented labor he's put in with said stick

The things that stick's forgotten. Have you been to LA before, Joel? Yeah, I was there this time last year, and there's a function on my Android phone that reminds me exactly what I was doing one year ago, and it shows me a nice photo of it. Oh, that's good. It's actually been quite a torturous week for me. Yeah, in America, With the iPhone, it'll also share that old memory, but it's only pictures of your ex-girlfriend is the way it works over here. It's insane, actually. It feels like a troll how good they are. What were you doing in LA? Were you just soaking up the sights trying to relive the OC? I managed to blag a trip there literally about one week after I went freelance. It was like a press trip for Borderlands 3, I think, the video game. What? Okay, okay, okay. Hey, they flew me over, so I do actually have to say, in as many places as possible, it's a great shoot-em-up game, and you should endeavor to download or purchase a disc. But yeah, I just went there for some... some big blowout stupid games event and then extended my stay and I was there for 10 days and just like I tried to eat as many tacos as possible and then I did all the touristy shit. I went to the Museum of Death and stuff like that. So it was like the E3 convention type of thing going on? It was something like that. It was like a soft launch just for this game and they kind of got like some... there's this there's this oh my god i can't remember his name there's this like famously weird developer um oh shit no i can't say that they flew me out there's a famously weird developer guy who like he's famed for doing like magic tricks in the middle of his um like presentations so it's like if steve jobs was suddenly like

Pick a card. Or just sort of clicks his thumb and a bit of smoke comes out or something like that. It was a very strange day. Anyway, LA is nice. I think British people love... I found historically that British people think America is California. Would you agree with that? Yeah, broadly. I think America is three things. So it's New York up in the little nub. God bless. With the little cap of New Jersey where the Sopranos happened. And then there's LA on the other coast, which is just Venice Beach, but it just extends along the whole coast. of that side of america and then in between those two points you've just got like old wild west just uh just sand the bush and like yeah you can't you can't get petrol it's really racist it's loads of tumbleweed people still like have gunfights and stuff like that you're not wrong So you haven't done an iconic American road trip? You've just been to New York and LA? Yeah, no. I kind of hit the big ones. But I can't drive, so I need to make friends with someone who can drive. Or learn. You're a tube man, then. Yeah, there's literally no need to learn how to drive in London. I disagree. If you live in the right neighborhood, you've got to have the Range Rover out front. You know what I mean? True, but I don't. I'm East London, so you're legally bound to ride the bike everywhere. I used to like East London, and I always would stay there, and now I think I'm switching my allegiances. Yeah, West is nicer, it's bougier. The more you age, the more you appreciate nice things. When I turned 30, I made one resolution, and it was...

that I was going to stop sleeping on sofas. That was my hard rule. Couches, sorry. How's it gone for you so far? It's great. I haven't slept on a single sofa, and my back thanks me. But also, once you tell yourself that, it sort of becomes a moral code that you live by. You start to raise your standards in every other part of your life. You stop eating instant noodles quite so often and things like that because you're not a sofa sleeper. kind of schlubby 20s guy when you sleep on a sofa is that out of laziness or is that because you don't have a bed no like well actually the first the first place i lived in london like the mattress collapsed through the frame pretty soon after i moved there and i just never fixed it so my mattress was just it was on the floor but there was a frame around it kind of like an artifact to what was once there. I slept on the floor within it. Actually getting out of it was really hard. You had to recontort yourself out. For me, sleeping on a sofa is like an admission that you've made a bad decision somewhere along the night. But also it's like a poor thing. Because if I was at a friend's house and it was too far from my house, it would be easier to sleep on their sofa than... either catch three complicated night buses home just to get home and i know i'd fall asleep on them because i always did and then i'd wake up in the wrong place blah blah blah because like i could just afford a cab back to a real bed so i'd be like okay i'll sleep here i'll be out your way i'll 7 a.m i'm out of here when the buses start properly i'll get on the tube i'll fuck off like when you're sleeping on the sofa you're kind of saying Daddy spent his last fiver on a pint. Can I stay with you? That's embarrassing. Okay, I understand. I've been in that situation many a time. Have you been in that situation recently? I have not. Thank the Lord. We've grown up.

But I will now in current times, will fall asleep on my own couch watching a bit of telly. Yeah, that's a bit of telly. But that's way classier because I feel like you, and I'm taking this just from the sound of your voice, but I feel like you have a pretty classy like... couch and entertainment set up in your front room. I've got a flat screen TV. Yeah, I got it all. Yeah. The flat screen is a little small, Jason, to be honest. It is a little small. Thank you for shaming me. Well, no, I just think they're pretty affordable. I think somebody of your stature should have a TV to match your size. A real tall guy's TV. I got it. Exactly, yeah. Stretch TV. Yeah, exactly. You should stretch your arms out. As far as possible. Put them on the diagonal and that's how big your TV should be. That's a rule. That's a good idea. I'm in trouble. That's a really good idea. Yeah, you're in big trouble. They might not make that for you. You have to get the dreaded projector, Jason. No, no, no, no, no, no. I've worked too hard and come too far in life to get a projector. The projector is the most embarrassing thing you could have at your house. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I feel like I see you writing a lot about... landlords and stuff. I don't have that same sort of passion because I just chalk it up to it being part of life. Am I wrong? Maybe. Obviously, a decent part of it is just cost of living. At some point, you do have to admit that the systems are in place that mean that rent is a reality for me. pretty much everyone I know, and you can't quite escape that. The column I write for Vice about it definitely focuses on the worst ends of the market, like the worst properties on offer for the highest price. And I think in that, there is an unfairness that takes it away from just the pure exchange of

money for a roof over your head for a month and sort of veers into the a kind of normalized exploitation of the system that kind of is is uh primed against people on lower incomes it sucks because london is i mean i live in new york so it's pretty bad i would imagine london's as bad or even worse i feel like uh from what i can roughly tell um New York is worse in terms of prices, definitely. It simply costs more to live in New York. But also I think if we sat down and did the math, if you want to call it that. I love math. Math. I think you're supposed to add an S to math over there, aren't you? Can I? Can I do it? I genuinely felt uncomfortable saying it like that. If we sat and did the maths. I worked out the average income in both cities and the average expenditure. Well, you guys don't make any money. They don't pay you guys shit. No, we're all... It's like gear down in terms of salary. You get paid in biscuits over there. Exactly, yeah. Well, we don't spend it on biscuits anyway, so that's a tax break. I remember the first times I went to London. I'm like, why do these adult men have roommates? What the fuck is going on? Then I came to realize it's because no one makes any money. It's been getting steadily worse for about the past two decades. It's a bit of both. People don't quite make money on the level that they should, but also the market has been allowed to... fester in its own special unregulated way so you know landlords are literally just allowed to name their price obviously like i'm not saying you know berlin is always held up as the example of of a city that's doing it right but like as soon as one landlord raises their price every other landlord on the street realizes that that's the market rate and raises it appropriately and so everything

kind of gets out of control because it's not like tracking in terms of inflation or the Bank of England or what people's salaries are doing. It's tracking purely in terms of what other landlords have managed to convince one well-meaning couple to spend on a one-bedroom flat and then the whole thing just snowballs. That's depressing. So what's the solution? I mean... I mean, there's two. One of them is just like a massacre, like a violent uprising, which we're never really going to do. Even when we had our good riot sort of 10 years ago, no figures of authority were sort of dragged by their hair into the streets. So you're talking about killing those who... Who own property and rent it out to people? Yeah. I suppose a second option would be government interference. The thing is, I don't think it would take too much, but it's not in the best interest of the government to piss off people with money, especially as we have a conservative government at the moment. All it would take is giving uh powers for local councils to be able to set certain rates based on uh like features in a house you know like if there was a base rate where you were able to say for a one bedroom with a separate kitchen and a separate bathroom you know a guide rate for that is this but also again it's it's like it's It used to be tacked to the housing market, which itself became a quite insane bubble, obviously. You lot know about that. But with housing prices going up in London as well, obviously owning a property isn't cheap to do and you're allowed to charge rent on it. Those two became separately wildly inflated figures. The rent went off on its own path and the price of houses. Because the price of houses dips, but that is never, ever reflected in people's rent. No one I know has ever had their landlord go, hey, weird one, the house is worth 15k less than last year, so we're charging you less money. That's a global thing. That doesn't happen here either.

Yeah, I know, but I mean, what's the solution? I don't know. I feel like there's a possibility in reform in terms of like how literally like contract reform where a landlord cannot, if you renew on the same property, a landlord isn't allowed to. charge you more unless they've made a renovation like that change would save that simple change would save a lot of people a lot of money but as as it stands now most of the people i know um sort of move move every year because no one's ever really staying in a nice place and no one's ever really paying a rate they're comfortable with so because it's not nice they'll be like okay well try our luck and try and move to another place and hope that that's nice and hope that the landlord isn't a dickhead there. Everyone moves once a year. If you think about it, we got burger joints and stuff. In New York, there's a rule about they can't raise the rent a certain amount every year. There's a legal amount they can raise it, but it's pretty small. But again, I mean, it's all fucked. But, you know, maybe this COVID uprising will change things. Well, I'm hoping so. Like, there's definitely, like, the way that Airbnb collapsed, well, you know, the company didn't, but the idea of it did, which was great, which was really funny. But, like, obviously, Airbnb sort of super hosts or whatever, those kind of people who have 22 mortgages. stuff like that well they're fucked but also suddenly it means that there's a real injection of like stock into the rental market for everyday people which hopefully you know if you go by the old supply and demand metrics means that those prices will come down a little and I mean everything kind of has to anyway but then

I think that'll happen. I mean, I think something will come down. I mean, I've heard that in New York already the rental prices are down pretty considerably. That's good. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to move, but I thought about it. Well, I mean, what I've thought about is this whole thing, like, has really made me hate the British so much more than I did before. Because the way we've all behaved in it, like, have you... You guys know about the NHS clap, right? We have the same thing going on. Do you have your version of Captain Tom Moore? Do you have that? I'm not familiar with Captain Moore. If you could tell us more, that'd be great. We also don't have healthcare here. We won't for long. Don't worry about it. Give it three more months. See you there. So Captain Tom Moore is like this army veteran. He was 99 years old and he started doing laps of his garden with his walking frame. And then he sort of made it a sponsored thing to raise money for the NHS. And in the end, he raised like... I first knew about him when he'd raised £12 million for the NHS, which is great. And good on him, just for walking around. Fair fucking play. And I think he was doing like 100 laps or something because he's not the quickest bloke. And then by the time it was like the 100th lap, he had a load of army guys sort of saluting him as he walked down his own garden and he'd raised 30 million for the NHS. the prime minister and the health secretary were like thanking him for raising this money and they were like inviting him to come and open a hospital and stuff like that which is all great on the surface and good on him but the two there's so many weird layers to it one is like the nhs isn't like a charity like the way we pay it is not walking getting old men to walk around their garden we pay it by

paying tax and that's that's fine that's a fine system and if the tax is distributed properly it should work like the nhs shouldn't need that man to walk around his garden and make 30 million pounds in public donations and also our primary decision like should not be thanking him for essentially showing him up like yeah that's crazy yeah you did a better job than we did yeah hey old man thanks for filling the hole in the nhs budget that i fucking left why do you have to do that And then his 100th birthday happened like two weeks after he finished it. So it became this kind of national delirium to like celebrate this guy who nobody had heard of two weeks ago. He was just an old retired captain. So they did like an RAF flyover over his house to celebrate. his birthday and there's like this heartbreaking news footage of him just in his garden with his daughter adult daughter just like one hand on his shoulder one hand pointing to the sky like yeah i see it i see the planes man come on i just walked around the garden here and then they like i i got post and it had been franked like royal mail and stamped it happy birthday captain tom like on every letter and people like kids built weird mannequins of him in their garden and like someone someone made a cake in the shape of his head but they weren't they didn't know him and they they didn't deliver the cake to him they just made this sort of cake this fondant bust and kind of went hey thanks for walking around your garden yes and and so and also they they promoted him like he's colonel now he would be useless in active service right now he he could he could barely take like one bullet for his country and so he can't even go to the loo without a friend no exactly and it takes him forever to get there and the thing is like we it turned it we we took this really nice thing this really earnest like sweet sincere good-hearted thing and we like

blasted it with like as much patriotism as we could possibly manage and this sort of twee heroism which britain really excels it and we we ruined the guy every time i see him on the news now and i can't help myself my brain does it for me it just goes oh this prick again do you think i think it may only where are you gonna walk next It might only be ruined in your mind and not the minds of your whole nation. But people are bored and they need someone. They need that shit. I think it's probably just because he's old and it's like a newsworthy story. But you would think at least David Sedaris is picking up trash when he's doing it. This guy's just walking and doing nothing, right? He's just walking. He's walking, man. I mean, that whole story is depressing to me. And you know what? Fuck you for telling it. Well, hopefully... Imagine living it. Imagine living it right now. He's been on the front page of every newspaper for like two weeks while there's been a pandemic going up. Are you working right now, by the way? Are you just working from home? Are you freelance now? Yeah, well, I've been freelance for a while, so I've been kind of used to sitting in my house typing as my day-to-day. And thankfully, things have remained pretty steady. There's some government scheme for people who've lost income, who are self-employed and stuff like that, but I don't think, knock on wood, that I need to apply for it yet. So I think I'm still good. Unless my entire career gets cancelled from that Captain Tom rant, in which case... Cap in hands next to the government. We didn't really talk about the book, but I would like to talk about it a little bit. Oh yeah, sure. I guess for me, I didn't realize how long it had been out in the UK before it came to America. I just would love to hear about that process and how kind of like...

Did you have to reach a certain actual sales figure in the UK, or was it just like, this shit's popping, let's take it to America, they'll get it, it's not too British? No, I had a good agent, so we kind of sold... the deal at the same time so there was something in place for america to go like hey we will we'll release this book no matter how hard it bombs in the uk we will release this book and i i had a really great editor um and the whole process was fine but they did kind of butt up against the central britishness of of my writing sort of a few times like my My favorite process, sorry, I completely talked over you. No, no, it is very British in parts, for sure. Yeah, well, I had to fight for that a little. There was an amazing section after it had been subbed where I kind of had this three-page document where I had to just translate all the terms that the sub-editor had underlined because she just purely did not understand them. And some of them were so basic, like Tesco. Like, shit like that. Mate, how could you not know about the Tesco? Well, that's exactly what I said. Because if you say Walmart to me, I'm not like, what the fuck is that? What could that possibly mean? I'm sure there's some context clues. Exactly. Like, yeah, I went shopping at Tesco. It's pretty clear what that kind of is alluded to. Yeah. and stuff like that so it was quite interesting to figure out like just like words and phrases that I had never considered just didn't translate over even even stuff like a road which is like a semi-major road somewhere between like a motorway and a Just a normal road. That one, to be fair, we would not know that one. Okay, but if you saw the word road in there, you'd make a fairly informed guess, right? Yeah, I do know the word road. I do know the word road. Thank you for talking about that. Well, I think back in the day, that is a reason why we would read books. We would hear these words that we didn't know and we would figure them out or we would look them up and learn about them and then feel better about ourselves for doing that.

I guess. It's weird because so much of our culture is like... All of our TV is basically America. We get all of our sitcoms from you and all of our films and stuff like that. Have you seen The Office? UK? It started in London, actually. It's a bit better. No biggie. But I feel like I know the beats and the quirks and the things that you call trousers and stuff like that. And then I go to America and I'll interact with an American and I'll be aware of this weird void that TV didn't fill in. So one of my favorite is when people ask you a question and... Like, say you offered me a biscuit, offered me a biscuit, a cookie, and I'd be like, nah, I'm all right. For some reason, I'm all right quite often, like, drops like a bullet. Like, it just does not land at all. So when I say all right, and people will assume... That's a positive thing or they'll just look confused or ask the question again or something like that. There's very strange things where I'll say something completely normal and people will look at me like I just vomited down myself a little bit. Yeah, and that's the type of stuff that you can't learn on television. You have to be out here with your boots on the ground. You've got to get it from podcasts. Have you ever listened to this podcast that you're on right now? Yeah, I did. I listened to... I'm not very good at listening to podcasts, but I'm very good at trying to distract myself where I'm doing a boring chore, so I put it on. And I was laughing in the kitchen to John Cara... Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a bit where you said, did you smash? And I lost it completely. And I was like, God!

That was the moment where I was like, God, I hope they ask me on this. And then like 10 days later, it happens. Well, that moment has come up a lot in my text messages being like, did he really say that? And I'm like, yeah, he really did say, did you smash Regina Spector? He really did say that. Thank you, Jason. Wow. I mean, I guess I need to start saying dumber shit because it really, It really hits hard. I had my reservations about leaving those words from my mouth. I was like, oh, this is going to be bad. It could be the next t-shirt you could do in the New York Times one. Yeah, that's a great idea. Did you smash? That would be a hot seller, no question. We've got to get Regina on the show now. I think we could probably get to Regina. I feel like life has slowed down a bit for her. Slow down for all of us, man. Yeah, fair. Good point. All right, fair enough. Well, Joel, thank you for joining us. It's been a fucking pleasure, mate. Thanks so much for having me. Tell people where to find you and where they can cop the book and follow your writing, et cetera, et cetera. Oh, yeah. Just follow me on Twitter. That's where all the best stuff happens. Joel Golby. Just an incredibly normal handle. And then my book came out last year. It's available in North America. It's called Brilliant, Brilliant, Brilliant, Brilliant, Brilliant. And you can get it basically anywhere you buy a book. Unless you buy it in really weird places. But normal book places should have it. Are you writing another book? Should we expect more? There'll be one one day. I haven't started it and I don't want to talk about it, but I'm working on other stuff. I'm working on a couple of TV things and stuff like that, but I'm always writing. I'm writing through the pandemic. I love the little TV flex. Thank you. Welcome to Hollywood, baby. See you there.

All right. Thank you, Joel. We'll talk to you soon, bro. Thanks so much. Bye. Thanks, Joel. Bye-bye. Bye, mate.