750. - Tish Weinstock

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. How long gone? Coming back at you with another podcast this beautiful Monday morning. I am... At the Novus Hotel in Stockholm, it is pitch black outside, nice and chilly. I'm getting my dose of Scandinavian melancholy, as they say. What's going on with you? I'm doing some spring cleaning the last couple days, cleaning out the garage. Nice, getting ahead of it. I guess it's less getting ahead of spring cleaning and more being late for the New Year's. renewal kind of refreshing you know what i mean of course if you choose to subscribe to the you know the man-made calendar system which i don't that's an entry yeah but you know i guess it's a it's a lunar new year re-juzhing the office is getting a little switch up i'm having to readjust some furniture and items oh shit my newfound electronica career okay so you're saying that Sorry, I thought you were talking about the show The Office, and I was very excited to hear what you've done with Stanley. I've done a lot with The Office. I've got a good Reddit page going. I've been making a lot of gifts lately. There's one where the guy spills all the beans on the floor. That one already existed. You didn't even have to make that one. It's been awesome. You can improve on things. That's what we love about you. So you're saying that your home office where you record this podcast, you do all of your work and important tasks. You're saying that because you had to add your DJ setup,

and all of your new synths you got, it's throwing you for a loop. Oh, yeah. The reel-to-reel has taken up more space. No pun intended. No pun intended. Yeah, fucking loops. Loops are gay. But no, I mean, I literally re... like adjusted the the feng shui of the office the the desk is on the opposite side it's done a full 180 whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa okay jesus christ so when i turn the camera on you'll see that the my my background wall has no spoon shifted sorry sorry it's fine it's fine yeah actually speaking of loop i've been there's like a twitter trend where it's like you know is this the best transition ever and people are like resharing and quoting with like videos of like snippets of what they think and when you say when you say transition you're not talking about hunter schaefer you're talking about when a dj mixes a song into another song seamlessly and perfectly yes okay yes yes i mean i guess it could be both i mean half the djs in these videos are trans so i understand where the confusion could lie but yeah it's more so like oh you think that was sick when you know skrillex did that you know and then so but every like all the old videos of people doing these dope transitions are just like here's you know two well thought out ideas of two songs that go together very well and they found the perfect point in the song where one flows into the other they're in the same key they're in the same energy level and it sure create so you know something greater than the sum of two parts together But all the videos I'm seeing of younger people, no shade to the youngs, but everyone is using loops. So I would say... So basically, you just hit a loop button on your equipment, and you can just take any part of any song, and it goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then somebody mixes in a song that goes, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then people are going like, holy fuck. Even I know that that feels like cheating.

Like, that doesn't feel like... So it's like I bowled a 300 with the bumpers up, y'all. That is... Well, there's plenty of things wrong with the younger generation. Their transitions is not surprisingly one of them. I'm not stunned that they're cutting corners in the DJ booth. That doesn't surprise me at all. I play on one rotary... I do one set on a rotary mixer and my whole shit changes. I wonder... It's different, bro. I'm surprised young people even DJ because if that's their job, then I would consider that going into the office. So that's interesting because they hate that. So I'm surprised that the nightclub, you know what I mean, is like that. They found a way to rejigger it. But yeah, otherwise I'm good. I'm still recovering from watching the fire aid stream a couple days ago where I had to watch like Lil Baby and Jelly Roll. Shout out to First Responda. First Responda. Yeah, I am. That's a good, that's a good. Good Grime MC name. Very good Grime MC name. I was able to... I'm going to DM Jammer and see if he's okay with that. Yo, Jammer, how have you been? It's Jason. I was checking on... I was able to use my NordVPN to watch all of that on YouTube. And I'm really VPN-pilled now. I'm like 14 years late. Okay, good. I mean, as a podcaster, it is your duty to share. the knowledge and majesty of vpns with the rest of the world so it's glad i'm glad to see you're finally stepping up but i just yeah i was i was just taken aback by um how good the black crows sounded and my friend ash like texted me being like that's that's they sound amazing i was like okay let me check it out They did sound amazing. But then John Fogerty came out. And we talked about this. John Fogerty is like 115 years old. He sounded fucking amazing. The sideburns were perfectly trimmed, age-appropriate. And, I mean, Mare sounded great. Stevie Nicks sounded great. I chose to skip the artists that I didn't think I would like. So I didn't catch Lil Baby and Jelly Roll shouting out the first responders. Well, I, unfortunately, it was weird.

I watched it all live because it was on every streaming platform. That's cool. That's fun. Which was cool. Yeah, that's fun. And I like that solidarity. I like that, too. I would have watched it. The energy was so weird because, like, the crowd is all, it's like, it really is a destruction of the middle class. It's like either people who were invited there because their homes were burned down or people that can afford however much this fucking ticket was to see in this crazy-ass lineup. It's just a bunch of, like, rich white parents and their kids, and they're just standing there like, I don't want to know. I don't want to. What is a Black Crow? What is this? Why are these grandparents on stage? And then the camera will zoom into the crowd, and there'll be, like, three firefighters, like, drinking beers, just, like, looking at their phones and shit. The vibe here is really not giving, you know, we all need to come together and blah, blah, blah. And then Little Baby comes out. with his like monotone thing you don't even know the thing i don't like about him is you can't tell if he's if he's lip syncing or not uh which is yeah i mean well i guess the idea the unfortunate the unfortunate he's so bad he's bad and it doesn't make sense drake's the only one who's ever blessed him with a hit that's the that's the sad reality of our canceled hero well he has a lot of hits now he's one of the biggest rappers but he's i mean is he though i'm up there alone going like his face doesn't move his eye he doesn't blink he does i don't think he's actually i think he's like sort of big i think he actually like i think his name is very big no i don't know if anybody listens to little baby like i never hear anybody talk about that i know i know but that's how old we are but he'll he'll pull up and like headline one of the days at rolling loud like yeah i guess that's true i guess he was doing main stage at coachella like three years ago he's he has a huge following And I don't understand it. There's no dynamic range in his life whatsoever. No, it's boring. It's boring as fuck. It's boring as fuck. I meant to mention this. I mean, I mentioned this to you in our group chat, but I made some new friends at the airport. And I had to, at the Copenhagen airport flying to Stockholm, I was sitting next to these two guys and we started chatting. And one of them was heavily like face tattoo. And one of them was kind of like a regular looking guy. But the face tattoo guy found out.

is a he's in a band called Ironsight his name is Isaac Hanson but he had pulled out this kind of Nintendo switch on steroids is the only way to describe it and he was playing what looked to be Tony Hawk skater and I was like bro what is that because I even I knew it wasn't like you know and he was like oh this is a PC and i was like wow i've never i've never seen this i've never heard of it he's like yeah actually make music on this and then i show up to the club with this and a usb stick and i'm ready to rock i was like that is fucking insane but it was very i was like i didn't know you was he actually playing tony hawk pro skater it looked like it was probably not tony hawk pro skater because that's probably proprietary to like playstation or something but yes okay it's the exact same you know it was the exact same look It was the exact same look. But then I looked these guys up, and they were playing. They're in a band with former guest of the show Varg, and they were playing. And they told me, like, yeah, bro, we're on at 3 a.m. And I was like, all right, cool. Well, you guys have fun. You should pull up. Pull up, bro. 3 a.m., any time a DJ tells me at 3 a.m. start time, unless they are fucking world famous, I don't. It's mind-boggling to me. Unless you're Avicii. Unless you're in World Famous or you're just anywhere outside of America. That's true. That's true. No, that's true. It just blows my mind that that's how people exist and tour. These guys tour. You know what I mean? They're playing every other night or whatever at that time. It blows my mind. But it's cool. Yeah. It makes me wonder how when I'm of an age and you see all these other DJs that are doing the same thing. And there's, like, older guys than me, you know, gray hair, Ibiza DJs, and they're, like, you know, my set's at 9 a.m., bro. And I'm wondering, like, how – it's not, like, how many years. It's, like, how many weeks do you have until your body gives up on you? Like, what –

What is the equation here? How is this happening? The most interesting thing, I would like to do a survey of all of these kind of guys and see what their recipe for energy is. Like when you talk to professional athletes, like, all right, I nap from this time to this time, then I eat at this time, then I warm up at this time. I wonder what that is for an aging. EDM artist who has to play at 8 a.m. when the sun's rising. When do you have the pour over? When do you do yoga? When do you nap? You know, there's so much to do. Around 4 a.m., I have my first vial of Ecuadorian child blood mixed with two milliliters of GHB, and that will just give me a little boost until the sun comes up. And then from there, I make my proprietary, and then I just do a bulletproof coffee. Yeah, I'm still doing it. Yeah, look, it works for me. It fucking works for me. I don't know what to say. Yeah, bulletproofers, we still exist. Actually, I've been making a little bit of a bulletproof coffee lately. I'm drinking one right now, but it's turned up. It's pour over powdered MCT oil, coconut powder. Damn, Rogan 1.0. And a scoop of creatine. Whoa. Scoop of creatine too, bro. Okay, nice. I'm into this for you. You know about Cree coffee? I've heard about it. I'm good. If I'm going to take creatine, it's going to be a pill. And it's really tough to find the one that doesn't make you hold water. You know what I'm saying? That's the tough. Oh, really? Yeah, that's the whole issue with creatine. A lot of them make you retain water. So you look puffy. But also, if you're buff, then you just look buff. More buff. You know what I mean? Right. I think I'm in the first category. I think I'm on the puff. I think you are. Less on the buff. Which is totally fine. Actually, speaking of, really quick, of EDM, and then we'll move on. Have you seen, there's a controversy, the rest of the Western world found out about this DJ. She's like big in Doha and Moscow and Dubai, all the cultural capitals of the world. And she's like a 30-something, late 30s woman, blonde. And her DJ name is DJ Black Woman.

And her Instagram is black woman with like three or four Ks. It's like three or four Ks. What? And she's like, what are you guys talking about? I don't understand what the big deal is. And everyone's like, bro. I love EDM. Your name is DJ Black Woman. I love EDM. That's what my mom's DJ name is, actually. But that is really. I can say it. I can say it. That is really something. That's fucking crazy. We do have. We're not going to. I'm not going to be able to see the Grammys tonight. Um, and so this will come out after, after it's happened, of course, but good luck to all of our friends and former guests, uh, Charlie XCX, uh, Waxahachie. I don't know who else is. I'm sure there's several others. Um, but I listened to, um, to a podcast with, with Carmonica and I, they ran down all the noms and it was like Billy Eilish Chapel round, Billy Eilish Chapel round. And it's just, that's it. So our guest is here. Tish, give us one second. We're going to intro you, okay? We're going to intro you. Our guest today is coming to us from across the pond. She's a contributing editor at Vogue, and she also has a new book out that has a nice cover, How to Be a Goth, which we're really looking to get into today because Jason and I both have been, you know. talking and dancing with goth chicks. We have a history with gothos, is what you're saying. Since the early 2000s. So I feel like you're going to be able to give us a lot of information. A bit of a connoisseur. Maybe the teacher will become the student. Okay, let's give Tish a call. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot. Because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs.

handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, so do our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept, quote unquote, donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. You know, show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional. as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince. Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable.

And they're just easy but, you know, still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. You know, they focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. Hi. How are you? I'm good. Is this working? Is this the headphone situation? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds good. These are my husband, Tom, because I'm completely non-tech key. You're saying you're without headphones at the moment and you're... Yeah, I'm transitioning. Okay, you're transitioning. I'm transitioning. When it comes to tech, I'm very much of the bootleg variety. Like I ordered some Apple coded, let's say. headphones that i suddenly was like tom like tom they don't work on my computer and he was like okay you can use i'm using daddy's headphones so so do you when you're protected when you're walking around london or you're on the tube or whatever you're just raw dog you're no headphones i'm raw dogging okay that is goth actually it is i'm actually talking to the a thousand other personalities in my head so i'm not alone i understand so you're in you're in conversation with

tish one two three four and five so you don't need music no i mean it would be better probably for my mental health if i didn't use it but instead it's like spiraling doom spiraling no i i disagree i think the more quote unquote neutral time that we spend where you're not doing anything you're not absorbing or consuming anything and you're not producing anything those are the moments that relax us if you do that enough you will never need meditation or or therapy again but I want to give a quick shout-out to Raycon Headphones for making black earbuds. Imagine if Apple just made those AirPods in black. How many of those would sell instantly? Of course. Because you see people wearing several different brands of bootleg AirPods specifically because they come in black, and Apple doesn't make them. It's a missed opportunity. Well, how are we going to address that? I guess we just did. I'm going to go to the Genius Bar after we record, and I have a sternly worded letter for them. Good. I think we'll get it done. I've had terrible times in the Genius Bar. I broke a shoe in going up the Genius Bar. It was the worst experience ever. What kind of shoe was it? A Prada, like little kitten heel. Okay, you broke a kitten heel? You broke a kitten heel? You must have been really stomping. Yeah. Well, it's stuck in the elevator. Basically, what happened was I broke my phone, obviously. So I was in the Apple repair bar and I was like, please, please, you have to help me. And I was in a queue and I kind of got really friendly with my guy. We spoke a lot. We spoke about wellness. I was so unwell, ironically, talking about wellness. Anyway, I was really bumming out. And I was like, I've got to go because I've got the opening of an envelope to get to later tonight. So I've got to go home and change. Obviously, I didn't have a phone, so I didn't have Uber or Get, which is black abs here in London, which is more my style.

Anyway, so I had to heal one. Went home, changed, came back, was running up the stairs, running my little Prada kitten heels, and then got it stuck. And I was like, oh, fuck, this is not going well. And so after the end was coming near as I was going up, I was like, no, this is going to end so badly. This is how people die, Tish. This is how people die. I know. You get the kitten heels stuck in the escalator, and then next thing you know, you got one of those cool fake legs. I lost. i lost a life then sure one of my nine lives it's a poetic way it's a poetic and i know we just met but appropriate way i feel like for you to go yeah in westfield i don't know oh i see okay that is less glamorous i understand i yeah that was but this is reminding me of when i was probably 12 or 13, and we were wearing very large pants. Not kitten heels. I thought this was going to be a kitten heel. Not kitten heels, giant pants. Well, the pants are so big, you can't see the kitten heel underneath it. It's just for me. Yeah, we'll see. The pants got caught in the escalator and ripped all the way, almost off my body. Oh, no. As like a fat 13-year-old in the mall. And it was really traumatizing. Yeah. It's always at the malls. West Hill is our mall. Shit goes down there. Shit goes down. I completely agree. And I'm not scared of escalators now, but I do look at them differently ever since. I'm sure you do too. You think about it. Yeah. I'm thinking about placement. I'm thinking about placement. Yeah. It's a lesson learned. It's a lesson learned. It's a lesson learned. It is a lesson learned. So we were supposed to record a couple of days ago, but you had to hop on a train. I did. Was this Fashion Week related in Paris? Yes. I was in Paris for couture. I saw two shows. I saw the Valentino show, which was Alessandro Michele's first show at the helm of A House. Debut. It felt like he's been waiting his whole life for that moment. That makes two of us, honey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. People are obviously days, and there are arguments out there that are like, well, this isn't different to what he was doing at Gucci, or like, this is just a thing. But it's like...

Yeah, obviously, it's the same designer. This is his aesthetic. That's what people... Yeah, that's what you're hiring him for. That's what he does. You don't want him to give you something else, right? I don't know if he... I also don't know if he's capable. And that's fine. What he does, he does beautifully. And it was amazing. I was fucking late for the show, which was a bit of a nightmare. And I was like, okay, I just did it. So I was sprinting in my sort of like... choir boy situation up here but they did they dress you in valentino i was yeah i was i was dressed i was dressed um i was dressed and it was very oh sweetie i was dressed bitch yeah i was just i was dressed but it was it was and it was amazing it was sort of all these like beaded little it felt like a catholic choir boy up top and then i was wearing these burnt orange tights down below which felt a little bit naughty my choir boy had places to go that feels that that feels like a i i'm sure that color makes its way into your wardrobe all the time but a burnt orange tight does feel like you were trusting valentino oh yeah um it wasn't my natural habitat let's say it because also the dress was was was mauve It was a little mauve. Okay. So it was mauve and orange. Okay, so we're going mauve up top, burnt orange down below. And then a little white collar and a silver beaded cape. It was so not me, but it was kind of me. And I tell you who else was there, which was like in the goth fam was Susie Cave. What was Susie and Valentino as well, I assume? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because she's come over from the Gucci family. She's friend of the pot. She's Alessandro's gang. Friend of the house you follow. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so how did it feel as somebody like you who typically wears black mostly and darker shades to be wearing mauves, oranges, and whites? It felt perverse in a good way. I felt good. I love the drama of Perverse. I mean, burnt orange. Yeah, but it was romantic. The thing that, like, I wasn't in some kind of, like, pink frou-rou situation. Situation. It felt romantic. It felt historical. It felt referential. Like, that was that way into the sort of gothicism. It didn't feel like I was... I think if I was wearing actually...

Not a pink Foo Foo, because I could also make that look. But a pink T-shirt, maybe, from... The gap? Yeah, just you rocking up in the pink Uniqlo T-shirt. Yeah, that'll be like, ooh, I just don't know about that. Okay. Well, look, as we get older, we find what we like, and we can deviate here and there, especially if we're led to water by a genius. You know, by a genius, it's fine. But it's probably better that you don't wear a pink T-shirt. You know that doesn't work for you. It doesn't work for me. But also then, like... It's kind of interesting when you recontextualize something. If I'm wearing a pink t-shirt, it's going to be different to my friend Mary Jane from Hull. If she's wearing a pink t-shirt, it's different. Incredibly different. Opposite ends of the spectrum. I can't believe it. What other show did you go to in Paris? When you take the train to Paris... When you arrive at the hotel, are the Valentino garment bags waiting for you in the hotel room closet? Or is it less sexy than that? They were out. And so there was like three bags. So I had some choices. And I chose this one. I was like, this is me today. And tonight, Matthew. I don't know if you guys get that reference. There was a show. Do you? What show? Stars in Their Eyes. And it was basically... That sounds like a Lady Gaga song. I ain't never heard of no TV show called that. I mean, it's... I don't know if that made it across the pond. No, it sounded like it didn't. It sounds like a Netflix teen drama. And this guy called Matthew was the presenter. And basically, people would go on and they would dress up and they would become a pop star. And then they would basically turn around and they span around. They go, tonight, Matthew, I am... Elvis Presley, and then... Whoa, this sounds great. Mary Jane from Hull is suddenly Elvis Presley. It was great. I think it was like Channel 3. That sounds... I'll look that up. That's like a different version of The Masked Singer, which is very popular here in America. Oh, yeah, yeah. But this is like the 90s, early 90s. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, the key... Yeah, it was like, Tonight, Matthew. Turn around. Kind of like the Wonder Woman spin, and then there's someone else. Dramatic. And then they perform. I'm Freddie Mercury.

Yeah. Oh, a mitt. They really didn't have a mitt. No one should try that. When you get the three looks... Fallon does a good one. Now, when you get the three looks, is there... often in this situation is is it sometimes like i don't know how to put one on like it's too it's so extreme that you're like i don't even what chris is asking is do the garment bags come with a gay guy to sort of guide you through all the garments and how to wear them oh i had one of those tom was in paris with me i brought my gay husband he was he's a stylist it was super easy it was no big deal i also There's clear sort of like lookbook pictures. You know what you're wearing. Sure. You can follow. You're following. I'm following. There's been a style out. I just, I know how, I might need someone to do something up the back, obviously. But I can sort of, I can figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of your job. It would be bad if you couldn't, right? Yeah. Actually, I have, I've worn, I wore something as a belt once, which wasn't a belt. Okay, so I think it was part of a bag, but I didn't know it was separate. So I just, and it was like a Loewe thing. And I think when the look is so precise, I mean, no one told me until I looked and I re-looked the picture the next day, feeling like slightly bleary-eyed. And I was doing like checking, doing like packing list and being like, oh, have I got everything? And then I saw the picture. I was like, oh, oh. And it was kind of weird. I was like, why am I wearing this like funny little belt on a skirt that has no belt for? It's completely gratuitous. But I was like, that's what J-Dubs wants, and that's what he shall have. That's true. You were just following the leader. You were following the leader. You called them J-Dubs? I like that. Yeah, J-Dubs. J-Dubs. J-Dubs. Okay, so that's a pretty minor offense overall. Yeah, it's fine. No one told me. I often see things specifically on women's runways where I think to myself, I'm not sure how this goes on and off.

And I think that's part of the fun. But it is, you know, it's sometimes it's tough to parse with just your eyes. Yeah. You need to physically get in it to understand. Yeah, totally. Like there are some things like couture, for example, which isn't your everyday. Yeah, sure. You're not wearing you're not wearing that down to the shop. Chris has struggled with couture over the years. So it's a real it's a real look. It's a blind spot for me. I'm not going to lie. I'll be honest here with you. I feel safe. Well, that's why we have you on today to learn. Can we unpack that? What troubles you about it? No, no. I'm not troubled. I think, though, I am very commercially minded. And sometimes when I see things come down a specifically couture runway, I'm a little bit like, I know this is art. I know this is meant to be just an expression. But, like, what the fuck are we doing here? Chris is just thinking about the buy. Yeah. I think about the buy. I want stuff that sells. I want hits. I want bags. I want shoes. You know, some of this stuff just isn't going to work. I hear you. But actually, when you're in the room with those couture clients, they're like, yes, this is what I want. That's true. The Fendi clients, the Scapparelli clients, it's a treat to watch them. When you're in the room with them. Yeah, I would love to watch an oil heiress from Dallas really putting in some orders because that's what it is. The work. like the ill facet like that the face is just like stretched in time and they look you know the weeds are sort of stacked they fucking look amazing like i think if he hasn't already and i feel like i definitely it could be a thing like jagan needs to be shooting yeah all of those portraits well they do keep these places in business they should have a they should be shown to the public that's kind of who keeps the lights on and and and the men as well actually at the women's couture show are you saying the ones that are are they just paying it paying for it because their wife wants it no no no no the the men like the guys who want to buy a little like i think it's like an you know jacket maybe or a handbag or something like a brian boy type of person just uh just a such a fan of couture that i just have to own it and touch it and smell yeah but brian yeah brian i think is more

But you're saying to me, you're saying to me there's a regular rich straight guy at Fendi being like, I need that, that, and that. And it's for him. I'm clear on his sexual orientation. She didn't say straight. She didn't say straight. But Chris, it's like when we go. That would make it more crazy. It's like when you go to a fashion dinner. When you go to a fashion dinner and there's like the four like. dudes from taiwan in the corner who are like why are those guys here like oh they spend like yeah seven hundred thousand dollars on xenia every year so yeah they're on a reward scheme basically and they're here for the points yeah they yeah yeah it's kind of amazing to have them they show up with the xenia umbrella even though it's not raining just let you know good for them good for them the first time i ever went to a fashion show was in like milan it was versace and it was probably like you know whatever 2010 maybe or something and i remember being like who are these who are all these fucking people because it was just like moms you know it was like chinese moms and then i was it was politely explained to me that these are the people who actually buy these clothes and it made it made a lot it really made a lot of sense they're keeping the lights on and like it's a whole production they also get taken out so if they're going to the dior show let's say they get taken out to a fabulous lunch afterwards. And they're flying them in and putting them up often as well. Yeah, I don't know if they're flying them in. That's unclear. And then it's our jobs, the three of us, to go to these lunches and dinners and entertain them. Yeah, I was at this dinner once, and I wasn't really sure what the dinner was, but there I was. And this very chic, in some contexts. I hope that's how people describe me. He's chic in certain contexts. Not all the time, but he has his days. She was doing her own thing. She was like, what do you do? Do you work in fashion? I was like, yeah. I still had no idea. I didn't know what I was doing. I was like, oh, don't you? She was like, no. I was like, oh. We're in a store.

And then it suddenly dawned on me what was happening, that I was getting farmed out to be, I don't know. I don't really know because I don't know what they wanted from me. You're just eye candy. Well, you're eye candy, but it also sounds like you're a middle, which is what Jason and I often are, where you're put in because they know that you can bullshit with anyone for two hours. That is true. And make it fun. And that's second only to the people who spend money. in order of importance at an event or a dinner like that. They want connection to the real people. I met a podcaster today at dinner. Yeah, I don't know how real you are necessarily, but I think in that context, you are more real than some of them, which is, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. What other show did you go to? I went to the Gaultier show. Was it lit? Jean-Paul Gaultier. It was great. The vibe was great. You're saying the vibe was great, but the clothes maybe aren't for you? No, no, the clothes were amazing. The clothes were amazing, but it was the whole sort of... The Valentino was watching... It was a massive, big production, whereas the go-to one, because it was Ludovic taking over the house, so they have a guest designer for every couture. That's a great designer who I don't understand. That is one of my top I don't understand. Okay. This is the place for him. I do understand that. Yeah, he was meant to do this. And he, it was kind of, it was fab. Like he put on a show, Pat, the choreographer, whose surname I'm not going to be able to articulate today successfully, so I won't. He did the choreography and it was like all the, it was all the girls. It was like sea monsters sauntering down the runway, which was nice to see a walk that wasn't just. a regular runway, and it wasn't just a rip-off of the Margiela runway. Look, I understand that, but I want to see aliens looking mad. That's kind of the vibe I'm going for. Chris, it's nice to get some sea monsters back on the runway again. It's been a little while, right? Yeah. I see that. What's the Loch Ness monster called? Lochie. Nessie. Nessie. Nessie.

Nessie, one of the last plus-size models going out, thanks to Ozempic, right? Yeah, very true. She decimated that market. We're inclusive. We're inclusive. She's a monster, and she's plus-size. She's monster, she's plus-size, yeah, and she's here, and she's fierce, bitch. I was reading or listening to something where they're talking about how Ozempic really has sort of shifted or altered or not destroyed, but... put a big dent in the plus size model community have you heard or noticed any of this firsthand this episode of how long gone is brought to you by a new podcast from the guardian stateside with kai and carter this is covering a lot of our bases jason it's a it's trying to slow down The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Hi, Talk House Network listeners. It's your old friend Nels Klein from Wilco here. Wilco is touring this summer, and we'd love to see you somewhere on the road. We're playing shows this June and July in Rochester Hills, Michigan, Chautauqua, New York, Lafayette, New York, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, Vienna, Virginia, Forest Hills, New York, Portland, Maine, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Memphis, Tennessee, LaGrange, Georgia, Charleston.

South Carolina, Virginia Beach, Virginia, Wheeling, West Virginia, and Columbus, Ohio. Plus, there are even more dates, some with Willie Nelson that I didn't even mention here. So please go to wilkoworld.net to see the full list of dates. We'll see you on the road this summer. So you're saying with Hilton Honors, I can use points for a free night stay anywhere? Anywhere. What about fancy places like the Canopy in Paris? Yeah. Hilton Honors, baby. Or relaxing sanctuaries like the Conrad in Tulum? Hilton Honors, baby. What about the five-star Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives? Are you going to do this for all 9,000 properties? When you want points that can take you anywhere, anytime, it matters where you stay. Hilton for the stay. yeah i think for sure i think less sandwiches backstage yeah yeah they leave the five they leave the five foot subway sandwiches at home they don't like they don't bring those backstage anymore it's uh it's oxygen no you're not gonna allow that's what well that's what's frustrating to me is that when you go to these things as a regular as a what i don't um oh oh they don't yeah they don't they don't like fat people As a recovering fat person, I feel like I'm able to speak on it in a different way. You're like, I fucking hate them. Mentally, I understand them, even though I'm in recovery and have been for years. He's got the soul of a fat team. I do, and it gives you a good personality. It gives you a good personality. It can't get out. It can't get out. It's stuck. It's stuck. Well, that never leaves you. Chris! Yeah, we got to put some butter on the sides of the doorways of your mind. Sorry, go ahead, Chris. I just don't, I find it, you know, when you're supposed to eat in these situations and nobody's eating, but then I'm like, I'm a 42-year-old regular man who lifted weights this morning. I need to eat. but I'm looked at as kind of a little piglet. Disgusting. Yeah, a disgusting pig. And I don't really, it brings me back to my, like, middle school days, and I don't like that. I don't, well, what do you mean? What do you normally eat? Because, like, out of dinner, you are, there's food. Food is stuff. There's food. There's food. Of course there's food. Yeah. But no one's eating that food, is my point. Or they're picking at it, moving around their plate, having a bite or two of just the radicchio. You know, I'm trying to, I have to eat. Chris needs protein the size of his fist.

a big bowl of greens and broccoli and things like that. This shit starts at 8 o'clock. He doesn't want to just have like a kiwi in his pocket. You don't sit down till 9 and then no one eats. I don't drink so I can't even fill up on vodka. It's a waste of my fucking time. It's a waste of my time but I have to show face. You know how it is. He's stuck eating a bread basket. Do you have intolerances? Do I have intolerances? Oh, I have a lot of intolerances but not dietary. Okay, dietary. I was going to say in the culinary. Not dietary. I mean, I'm by choice a pescatarian. I don't have any actual... I'm not a hot girl who lies about being gluten intolerant. Chris, don't come for our wives. Well, about that. Yeah, Tish, are you recovering gluten intolerant? Okay, so while I'm busy, I'm going through some stuff at the moment where... Whenever they answer that question with, okay, so... Yeah, how much time do we have? Okay, so basically, hitherto, I've been like, i eat what i eat but then recently i have gone to see a couple of like wellness quacks and they're like oh no your gut is not okay i was like i know it's not okay because i'm you're like it's not a it's not a gut it's a very tight stomach first of all excuse me um but I do. I'm sort of one of those girls that's like, you know, there's a little rabbit dropping in the morning and that's it. So I feel like I need to get things going. Okay. Sure. Okay. Yeah. And that's, and that's, and you're like, oh, we came to talk about goth and now we're talking about feces, but actually it's quite goth. It's the same thing. It is. I was going to say. I can easily transition from shit to goth. Don't worry. Goths are shit. So then I was like, I need to get it all going. And instead of giving up like alcohol and cigarettes, which feels like I should do to be well. Of course, we all should. But those are non-negotiables for people like us. Yeah, I was like, there must be some other kind of thing that I can do. And then I did this test where you put your hands on these plates and there's very sort of.

dated machine looks like something from, like, Back to the Future. It sounds like you became a Scientologist. So, apparently, you're not the first person to say that. Apparently, Scientologists use them. Anyway, I was doing it, and then this computer basically read me. It told me, it's like, I can't have yeast, I can't have wheat, I can't have dairy. And then it was like, you can't have champagne or green peas. And I was like, oh, niche. I don't like peas, so I was like, pick um champagne on the other hand you're gonna have to let that what you're gonna have to let that one through is what you're saying do you mean just the cheap stuff or it didn't say the machine didn't say so i was like oh i don't know which years you can have the 2002 what vintage is that um no it didn't it it wasn't very forthcoming it just putting it all out um There was something else, which is like a word that I didn't understand. With many things, I was like, I don't understand what this is. But I also felt seen and judged by this machine. Tish, quickly, how much did this cost, if you don't mind me asking? This is stuff Jason and I do, too. So we're not, this is not a, this is a judgment. Yeah, yeah. I've done it with, I did a test where it's my blood, feces, and saliva. So I would love to just put my hand on a plate for five minutes. Yeah, I have a private doctor. I pay a fortune for her, and all I can do is blood. Okay, so I don't know how much that specifically costs, but I'll tell you what something costs in relation to that. So after being given the food diet, it was then I'm on a protocol where I have to go back and get ozone therapy. Ozone therapy. You know what that is? I don't know what that is. No, I haven't had it. I don't have it. Okay. I haven't had it. So ozone, they take your blood out, and they spin it with O3, which... I'm slightly unclear, but I was like, whatever, good. And then they put it back into you. I saw the 1975 there last summer, 03 Arena. Jason, I was literally about to make a stupid joke. Carry on. Sorry for interrupting. Okay, so I'm familiar with this. They pull your blood out, they spin it. Okay. Add a little three, put it back in. Add a little three, they put it back in. And then they, it's an 03 story. So then they do this thing called insufflation.

where they put the ozone up your vagina, and then they put it up your ass. Wow. Which is all very... Interesting. The only thing that's gone up my ass is cocaine, and that was only once, so this is pretty crazy. Interesting. So, yeah. Okay, you said insufflation? It's called insufflation, and that's a technical term, apparently. Insufflation, no breathing, don't give a fuck. Trump's been talking about that a lot, actually, lately. Anyway, so the vagina one was sort of, it was like someone throwing bubbles. I did the both sides of the bubble thing. As for when I felt slightly uncomfortable, and I also fully lied. I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. I've never had anything up here before. And then she looked weird. She's like, bitch, you're lying. I'm like, sorry. So you're saying? I lied. Just to clarify, they're pulling some of your blood out of your blood veins and vessels, adding a little O3 to it, putting it back in your body. But before we save a pint glass. To put up your vagina and asshole as well. So that's, it's just the gas. It's just the gas that goes up there. Oh, okay. It's, it's, okay. Okay. So it's, it's not liquidation. It's gas going in, not coming out. Okay. Okay. So they've got an O3 hose and they just put it in there and fill you up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like a tire on the Tesla. So, yeah. So what, what is the, what, okay. How much did this cost then? Now that we've heard there's blowing involved. This is just the first hour. There's a brief intermission, and then the real pain begins. There's a brief intermission, and then you have a drip, and they put lots of good things in the drip. I don't actually know. No one likes to know what goes in the sausage. B12. A little tumour. Then the nurse was like, I'm going to give you a reset. I was like, okay. She's like, I think you'll like it. I was like, why do you think that? She was like, well, people who dabble. I was like...

sorry, what do you mean dabble? She said, you know, we dabble. And I was like, I'm just going to let that. I haven't kissed a woman in at least three years. I haven't dabbled. I don't know what you're talking about. I was like, okay. So we didn't go there. Anyway, I think she thought things like smoke weed or something, which I don't. And because I felt something fucking, so she put it in, I literally passed down. And I was like, sorry, that was fucking horrific. And she's like, oh, I thought you would have really liked that. I was like, No. You're like, so I tried fentanyl for the first time, and it was very strong. Yeah, it was great. And then you round the whole experience up with some exosomes sprayed into your face, and it's basically salmon sperm. I've heard about the salmon sperm thing. My wife was talking about that. Yeah. The reset. What was the reset that they gave you? I don't know. They just put it in the bag. I just did not. Oh, so you had the IV drip going, and then they switched the bag of electrolytes and vitamins out, vitamins, and then they replaced it with a kilo of ketamine, and then you just passed out. Okay. Yeah, and then I came back, and I was like, oh, I actually didn't really like it. Can you explain to me where this is? Is this like a doctor office vibe, or is this like a... Yeah. Okay, okay. Kind of. She's like, well, in the way that doctor's offices have doors and walls, it was similar to that. There was a couch and a table and stuff. It's doctor coded. It had doctor elements to it, but it wasn't full on. Do you know what? The nurses are nurses and the woman who was doing it, it was kind of nuts because she used to work at the NHS and she worked in A&E. She's used to seeing all kinds of crazy shit. And then she's like, you know, I would never do that again. And then here she is, like, giving me basically a facial with sandwiches and shoving a fucking tube up my asshole. Yes, yes, Tish, but I, she's probably making a lot more money doing this than she was working for the NHS. That's the giveaway. Oh, for sure. And so the whole, at the end of that, when I had to pay, use my card, that was like $2,500. Okay.

Look, this is a judgment-free zone. We all spend money on stuff like this. But did you feel any different? That's the real question. Did you feel $2,500 better? I felt like I was dying for the loo. Okay. That's a good sign. That means all the bloating and water is ready to leave. It's like lymphatic or something. But, you know, these things, it's like you have to do a course, a weekly course. I'm like, fuck, that's like my children's inheritance. Yeah. Now the real journey begins. And would you like us to bill your Amex every two weeks or every month? How do you want it? Sorry, sweetheart. High school is not really an option now because mommy needs her wind blown. She needs the insulation. Okay, this is pretty extreme though because I feel like in the UK this stuff is fairly, it still feels underground to me or maybe not. Maybe it's just in the circles I run in. Yeah, yeah, it's underground. It's like, there's a certain people, once you meet, it's like, it's like, it's like when two, like, tops or two bottoms connect, there's like a sort of freestyle of excitement. Because they're like, oh, do you get insufflation? You're like, yeah, maybe. And then if you feel like you're in safe, you know, in a safe space. Right. Okay. Did you have, did they give you, did they give you like a poppers or anything to sort of prepare thyself? No. For insufflation? No, no. I mean, they put some, like, they put lube on it. Oh, that's nice. Which is a kindness. Better than nothing. Now, was this recommended by a friend, or is this something you found out about through your channels? Through my channels, and I've now got friends from those channels. Okay. Yes. You know what I mean? It's brought me closer to people. With the other survivors, you've developed a beautiful network. We have a WhatsApp group chat. The thing is, I would rather, like, hemorrhage my children's inheritance, like, on these treatments than implement the food thing, because I'm a raging people visa, and, like, when people are like, oh, do you have any dietitians? I'm like, no. I don't.

But I do. Yeah, sure. You don't want to be pulling up the Google Doc of dietary restrictions before you go to a party. So you're like, I'll be fine. Don't worry about me. Don't take my intolerances into account. Exactly. Like, I'm okay. For you, I'm not intolerant. Okay. Are any of those, like, life or death? Or is it just, like... No. Okay. No. It's sensitive. They're not intolerant to their sensitivities. Okay. But I am sensitive. Are they mostly, I'm sensitive to foods that make me fatter? Is that sort of the broad strokes of it? No. Well, the pee thing was really... The green pea thing. That feels like an attack on your English. I was like, what? How dare you? I mean, I don't think anyone likes peas, but being told no doesn't feel good. I love a pea. I love a mushroom pea. Yeah, I fucking hate peas. I built my life around you, peas. Oh, no, no, thanks. What are the other? Now, this feels like this is probably, you know, you've been exploring this sort of thing for a long time to get here. So I'm sure you have a monthly routine that you go through. Kind of. And this is now part of it? No, honestly, this food thing, I only, and the whole wellness thing, I only got into in December. But it's very neat to get, like, really into something, and then be like, I can't start. When's the last time you had a cigarette, though? In Paris. In Paris. No, I'm quite good. I can now, like, I can. When I was pregnant the first time, I was. You were smoking a lot less, probably. Yeah, I was smoking a lot less. Let's put it that way. I was smoking a lot less. I was drinking a lot less as well. In the first drinker. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Of course, of course, of course. Which is when it counts, which is when it counts. And so that kind of reset, and I was like, actually, you know what? I don't really, I'm not a smoker. I'm not a, like, I used to wake up and be like, ooh, it's cigarette, yum. And now, no. You do strike me as someone who in their 20s would smoke in bed. Is that fair? Yeah, fair. Wait.

Have we met? Nothing more fab than that. Do we know each other? It feels like... Do we know each other in an intimate way? Yeah. Have we... Hold on. Do we smoke together? I've always wanted to smoke in bed. I've never done it. Do you like smoking? In general? Oui, oui. Okay. Oh, you just managed to get out of the bed? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. But I want to do it while I'm still naked. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think also part of it is like... I don't think it was necessarily because I was like, oh, I really want a cigarette now. I think I maybe thought of myself in a film and I was like, oh, I'm going to have a cigarette now. It was very performative. Sure. Even though no one was watching, obviously. Very much in the early days of my courtship with Tom, who is a friend of this pod, a fan of the pod. Hi, Tom. Tom, bless him. Poor Tom. Tom does everything. Because I was like, well, I have phones not working. And also our baby had just done a shit all over herself. And he was like, I'm dealing with something. I was like, I'm dealing with something. Tom is like the lurch to my Morticia Addams. He does everything for us. And I was like, oh, yeah, Gomez. I'm like, no, lurch. He does everything for us. But also, he is our leader. He is my leader. He co-signed everything. He also Kanye'd my wardrobe fully. Oh, you mean he went in and was like, this is what you're wearing. You're Bianca. It was more like, this is what you're not wearing. Right, right, right. Were you happy with those results, or did it take some? Because Tom is a very talented stylist. I would trust him, obviously. I wasn't. I was more, okay, there was this one dress, right, that we were doing, because I was moving. We were moving out. We were moving each other. I was pregnant. I was like, what should I throw in the bin? What should I not? And there was this one dress that I was like, what do you think of this? Like, thinking, what was it? Keith. It had a lot of lore to it, like, personal lore with me and Tom. I wore it to a Jacquemus show in Marseille in the early, early days of me and Tom. And, like, I thought, obviously, I looked ravishing. It's funny, I mean, like, now we just spoke about, like, Valentino, was I dressed? Yes. Back then, I was not dressed.

by Dracomus, so I dressed myself, and so I was wearing this black dress, and I lost my virginity in that dress. So it was like, it meant a lot to me. You still had the dress that you lost your virginity in, and then you used that to lure in your current husband, is what you're saying. Is it your Tom virginity, or your virginity virginity? Like, virginity virginity. Okay. I think I was just like, you know what, this is a, because it was really early days with me and Tom, and I was like, this is a lucky dress. I resurfaced. The queen rises to the top. How old is this? What season was this dress, honey? This dress is a vintage dress that I found in Berlin in a thrift shop. That's why I think I wore it. I don't know what the thinking was behind that, but I was like, oh, Berlin, Tom Guinness. Yes. It was very one-sided lore. I didn't want to label. No, no. I was going through some stuff. I was mentally very unwell. I was like, I don't want him to know what labels I identify with. And that was down to toothpaste. So I didn't bring any toothpaste with me. Or deodorant. I'll just borrow his. I just didn't want him to know. So better safe than sorry. He might judge my products. I understand that because Chris is a product judger. Yeah, see. Living with one can be stressful. It can be stressful. I think that, luckily, my wife is a worse product judger than I could ever be, so it's kind of a duel, depending on what the category is. Yeah. But I do, not bringing deodorant for fear of embarrassment is an interesting choice. I know, I knew he would bring his. Fuck it. Yeah, men have to wear deodorant. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, so I was like, oh, I didn't want to be embarrassed with my little, like, Ziploc bag, you know? Okay. Even though I hate to break it to you, Tish. I mean, the courtship process is so adorable. But Tish, I hate to break it to you, but everybody who's traveled before kind of knows that you got to bring the plastic bag. It's a great equalizer, even, I would say. I know. I know. I know. He's going to be like, what brand is your Ziploc? Disgusting. Yeah. Is that a... Sainsbury? Yeah. I think you're going to be sick. Yeah. Yeah. So I just, you know, I was just like, I just wanted to go. I certainly feeling like I wanted to be incognito. So I found this dress.

And I was like, oh, no labels, vintage, but then, yeah. And, like, it worked before. And then... In terms of being shagged in it. Yeah, it was shagged, yeah. The shagability. The shagability, like, it's got male appeal. Now, the guy I lost my virginity to is not the same as with a very different beast. You don't say. I had a feeling it might be far apart. A very different beast. So, I don't know the thought process behind that. I also hadn't been, so I was also out of the dating game, by the way, when I started dating Tom. I was, like, in a relationship with, like, someone I met at school. Sure. Who I'd been, like, obsessed with for ages. And so I wasn't, like, you were dating. So I wasn't, like, I hadn't dated a man. I'm told I was a man. He was five years older than me, and I was, like, scary man. Scary man stylist. Yeah, nothing scarier than a male stylist. For our listeners at home, Tish does not look scared at all. It's horny scared. That's what's happening. She looks like she's looking at a chocolate bar. No, but he... Tonkin has had a lot of lore as well, so it's like... Well, I mean, I understand that, and I think that he is good-looking in an intimidating way, I would say. Thank you. Yeah. Yes. And he's able to do a closet edit. That's a that's a rare. That really is. That's top of the top. But so you're saying that my hat's off to you. You're saying that this dress. that that worked and then you were you wore it again in hopes it would work and then when it came time to do a closet clean tom was like that's got to go that is fucking disgusting i was like but tom i was like tom's like that dress smells like 10 different Ten different people's cum. I want it out of my house. Yeah, he was like, no. Smells like a lot of cum that ain't mine. And what was that? I should have, like, I should have sort of taken the hint when, like, this guy that we bumped into in Marseille was like, oh, wow, Tish. I'm not going to say his name. You probably won't even know him. He's not known for his taste. Anyway, he was like, wow, Tish, you look amazing. And he's like, Tom, don't you think you should look great? And Tom looked at me and he was like, ooh.

And I was like, oh, no. That's nice. Tom's like, yeah, most days she does. You're saying Tom went nonverbal when asked if you looked. He was just like, yeah. No, he's like, Tom, you totally like her great shoes. Tom's like, I like the shoes. Playing hard to get. No, he's fucking being truthful. He's obviously like, she looks bad. So did you, for nostalgia's sake. Eight years later, here we are. Yeah, I mean, nothing gets a woman going than telling her you look bad. That's true. It's like, challenge accepted. Yeah, it really is. Anyway, but I would say now the student has surpassed the master. Now I'm good. It was a lesson I needed to go through. I needed to sort the wheat from the chaff. I needed to get focused. Well, what are your shopping habits like? Like my wellness habits? Expensive and extreme? Yeah. Okay, that's fair. But are you buying online? Are you going to store? What do you like to do? I buy mainly vintage online. Basically, it's a lot of Galeano. So what years of Galeano do you have your RealReal and Vestiaire search results? Well, with Galeano... She's not telling. It's got to be the right thing. It's pretty open-ended myself. It's just John Galliano. Oh, okay. It's not specific. I want to be delighted, surprised, and, like, you know, moved. Now, when you order something like that, because obviously it's vintage, so it is cheaper, but it ain't cheap. No. How often does it fit? Because you know what you're doing. You're a pro. How often do you have to make a return? Return? You know what? The more people that we talk to on this podcast over the years, I had no idea how many people simply cannot be bothered to return the clothing that they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on. And I applaud it. I mean, look, I can't do it. From bright eyes to you. Yeah, the range is crazy. I'm not someone that's like...

I kind of like it if it doesn't really fit as well. If it's too big, which invariably it is, I like the way it hangs off and it gives it a different context. It's never going to be crazy enough to return it anyway, really. You can't tailor a skirt to be bigger. You can only make it smaller. Yeah, I know what size is too small, and I will avoid it. But if it's too big, I kind of love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can make it work. In an interesting way. I get it. I can make it work. Not everything has to be form-fitting. No. I actually am not a form fitter. Speak for yourself. I want my shit skin tight. Well, that's because he used to be fat, and now you're proud of him. I'm kidding. I like my clothes to be big and old. I don't want anything. Men shouldn't be wearing fitted clothes, unless it's a suit. That's the only time where I think... Chris likes his clothes, how our listeners like their men, big and old. Speaking of form-fitting clothing, Chris is a big workout guy. What does somebody like you, a Galliano freak, goth bitch, wear to the gym? Okay, so I'm... She's like, when you say gym. I'm like, translate that. Gym is like a big room where you look at your phone. I'm allergic to exercise. I'm so lazy. Must be nice. Must be nice. Okay, so is your exercise level zero? Aside from walking. Do you know what? Again, I'm sort of the walking element. I like to see that. I'm a passenger princess. So even walking, does Tom carry you from room to room on occasion? Sometimes, yeah. No, do you know what? He drags me by the hand. Even hotter. Okay. Like a caveman. You, woman, stop talking. There's a lot of that, especially if I'm drunk. Okay, so you don't even own any workout clothing? No, of course. I've got leggings. I don't even know how I'd ended up with them. They're not like a designer brand. They're literally just like a legging. They'll wear one of Tom's T-shirts. How often do you wear sneakers in general, though? Not designer. I'm not a sneaker person. Not designer. Back in the day, I used to wear Converse. Okay.

Like, as in, when I said back in the day, I knew when I was working at ID, like, I was wearing a pair of black high-top Converse, which I wore every fucking day. That's about a standard issue. That's one of the great sneakers of our time. From Tish to Julian Casablanca, it was, you know, it's a straight line. It's written into the annals of history, the Converse show, you know. Okay, so you never had like an all black. What about like a black on black pair of Solomons or something? I had a Reebok Classic. New Balance. Reebok Classic. That's cool. That is the most British. That's the most British shit. I tell you what. there's i'll do a lot of shit reebok i will not let touch my body i can't do it i just can't do it it's you guys make it like ever since the streets that's the first time i saw reebok look cool and it's only looked good on like people who are employed by palace like it's not a real thing i wasn't there i'm not like it's not a real thing i was a sneaker pal i'm also like not really a true person okay oh wow that now that is surprising because i'm a i love shoes that's kind of my weakness no i'm like i'm a i've got i'm not one of those girls shoes and bags like i will i have obviously um but i i just not like i'm not like oh i need a bag for this My bag is just one handbag. So you don't have a wall of Birkins in your closet is what you're saying? No. I'm not like, oh, I'll tailor this bag to my outfit. I'm just like, oh, shit, where's my house keys? What bag did I need? Okay, great. The bag that you wear is whichever one has your stuff in it at that time. Exactly. And then the shoes, I rarely think about them. Because I work from home. I'm not really wearing shoes. But, like, obviously, if I'm going out and I'm considering my whole outfit, then shoes obviously are important. I like the visibility for us who work at home and don't wear shoes. I like the thank you. Right? That's a fashion pro tip. Only where shoes are very important outside. I would love to. I think we need to get you a pair of kind of classic Ugg slippers. We could dye them black. And I think that could be your kind of house shoe because it gets cold. They make them in black now. They do make them in black, yeah.

So I will not wear shoes in my own home, but I want other people to wear shoes in my home. I'm totally with you, and it's because we're not married to Asian people, and I think that's important. If you're like, do you want me to take my shoes off? I'm like, no. please i don't take my shoes off when i go somewhere i don't expect you that's part of the outfit it's i don't want to see your socks well i think that that goes back to you being like self you know like a people pleaser is what i'm getting a call back oh yes that's true being like no it's okay basically because i grew up in a house where my mom would be like hey shoes off and i'm like no and now you're the cool mom like you kids want a margarita yeah i i know that that's gonna be do you guys have kids No. Keep your wellies on. Who cares? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we do not have kids, but you have two, right? I've got two. Yeah, I just spent a whole weekend with them. At what age will you give them alcohol for the first time, realistically speaking? They've already started. I mean, does whiskey in the bottle can? Yeah, exactly. When I feel like they can be trusted, I think it's different with boys and girls. I mean, the first time I vomited from alcohol, I was in front of my mom. Oh, wow. Yeah. She was like, I don't know. And also, let me tell you, it was not the last time. But I think it was, I think she felt like safe that I was with her. Right, right, right. If you're going to do it, do it under my roof. I can keep an eye on you. Bring your slutty friends over. That happens here too, but it doesn't, it's not the same because drinking culture is so different. It's like, it's a different, like you go to jail. Like you go to jail if you get caught letting your high school, kid have like a party at your house like that's a big offense oh yeah yeah that's like you can't do shit like that yeah lawsuits all the other kids parents yeah people do it but yeah it's a common it's a pretty common problem so when you were throwing up in front of your mom you were how old i think i might have been 13 what were you sipping on champagne which no now that i you were allergic even then that's not something you developed that's something you were born with

At least that's what you told your mom. No, mom, I'm not drunk. I'm just allergic. I'm having an adverse reaction. Mom, what brand is this? You know I only... I thought it was a gruner, mom. I messed up. Exactly. I don't know. I haven't thought about what age I'm going to let my kids drink. I think I definitely want to create a space for them where they don't hide it from us. Because I think once you start... And actually, someone told me... um so he's got older kids was like it's not just about your your kids being cool with calling you if something's gone wrong it's got to be their friends as well because if your kid is overdosing they're not going to call you because they're dying but as long as you created a space for their friends to call you the homies the homie's going to call with the narcan request yeah and i'll be like okay but But they need to have a direct line to both me and Tom, because, like, let's say if it's a party in the country, I can't drive, so, like, I'm not going to be able to get out. If it's a party in the country, I simply can't be arsed to go resuscitate my child. I'll be like, I'm going to have to get a driver, which is fine. I can figure it out. You can call a black lane. Physically not allowed to drive. The wait time. If I need to get that, I need to be like, Tom, go. I love that you don't drive. I love that you don't drive, though. That feels really right. And getting back from the country? Are you kidding me? It's such a mess. It would not be good if I did. I know we just met, but I don't trust you behind the wheel. Absolutely not. Because I started dissociating, and I'm like, blah, blah, blah. killed the theory because i'm a fucking like swat so i revised really well and then i was like oh yes and then when it came down to the practical the guy had to literally grab the wheel twice and i was like oh okay to save his own life that's yeah he's like fail and i was like oh really and he was like yeah and i was like okay i'm like it's because i did it late in life real oh really yeah that's true

If you do it, yeah, I was pretty like, here we get a learner's permit at 15 and you get your driver's license at 16. I was like, the day of, the day I turned 15, the day I turned 16. It was like a, it was a no. It's just what one does. Yeah, I just, living in London, you don't need it. You don't need it. And the first time I ever moved away from home was for uni and I went to Oxford. And like, I mean, I don't also ride a bicycle, but like the mode of transportation in Oxford is. bike riding. Again, I was like, no. I also can't imagine. So I guess I can imagine you walking and maybe on a horse. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay. In a moral, I'd be in the cart. Cart? Yeah, yeah. You would prefer carriage than anything. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of your kids, do you think your kids are going to grow up to be Nepo babies in any way? I fucking hope so. Jason. Jason, those are the only people that can get jobs at Vogue. If Vogue stopped hiring kids, it would be dead. I want them to feel happy and fulfilled. I think what I see a lot in young people today is not having a clue about what they want to do. I'm not saying that I necessarily... what you know wanted to do like bitch work at a desk that's not really what i had in in my mind but i like the idea of me working in a magazine i think your kids are going because of what you and tom do for a living i think they're going to be like in finance i think they're going to reject you fully one will be a rock star and one will be a day trader that's how it's going to go well my eldest son my son who's five he's like He's got an incredible imagination. We were just driving back from the country a couple of hours ago. And he suddenly attacked me. He was like, why did you call me Ruben? Why didn't you call me Shiva? And I was like, oh, because we're not Indian. Maybe. I don't know. And he was like, he's obsessed with Indian culture. Obsessed. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he basically learned about Diwali at school. And instead of connecting with...

Rama, the prince who saves the day, he's really into Ravana, the ten-headed demon. And he was always like, buy me a Ravana costume. I'm like, I don't know. Chip off the old block. Yeah, Tom. Okay, so you took him to Dishoom one time and the kid's going loco over Indian stuff? Is that what happened? No, he doesn't actually know about Dishoom. Yeah. Good. He's desperate to go. You're about to fucking blow his mind. I know. Get in here, you motherfucker. We're about to try something you're going to like. He's really into just, like, the God's side of it. And, like, he's very, like, Ganesh. But they're actually quite violent, those stories. It's very interesting for a five-year-old. That is interesting. Yeah, he's obsessed. That means he pays attention at school, though, which is good. No, because he's talking about it all year round. And Diwali's only in October. So he's like, ah, I see that. And they're like, no. So he's. Okay, and we need to get him off of the Krishna path if he's going to become a day trader, Chris. Yeah. We got to get him in a little vest. We need to get him a little puffer vest right now and kind of get this going. Start dressing him for the part. You know what I'm saying? Some nice flat front slacks. They can be cool. Have you started showing him HBO's industry in preparation? Yeah, yeah. You need to get him on it. I haven't watched the latest season. That's great. You haven't had time. I haven't had time. Being a mother, you know. Being a mother, exactly. All right, Tish. Thank you for joining us. This was a real pleasure. Thank you for having me. And your book is, you can get it everywhere, I assume. Yeah, I think so. Were you just in a beauty campaign of some sort? Did I see something? Not beauty. I was in a campaign for Chloe. Oh, I'm sorry. Just regular. I apologize. I didn't mean to put you in the corner. Okay. Don't call me with that fucking beauty brush. I apologize. That is really disrespectful. Disrespectful. Disrespectful. Well, Chloe's a good start. We'll get Celine next year, babe. Yeah, it's a good start. I can tell you're going somewhere. I can tell you're going somewhere. Yeah, down. No, thank you. Thank you for joining us, and hopefully we see you soon. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Ish. Bye. Have a good Sunday. Bye, you too.

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