396. - Zane Lowe

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week, Jason. Does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. It's for you. It's not for me. How long gone? It's a beautiful, sunny Tuesday afternoon here in Atlanta, Georgia. uh ready to tap in with big tj how are you oh i'm great i did a little my knees got a little cuckoo i was doing some tennis drills and i was a little too big for my britches so i had a little little soreness so i was doing some sledding to get all my tendons back where they should be tending to. Okay, good. And I feel great. I forgot that tendons are named because they're tending to the muscles and the bones around them. A lot of people do. A lot of people forget that, but yeah. I actually just got off the court. I have met a new pro here in Atlanta. His name is Ross. He looks like he was out of... tennis central casting he wore me the fuck out jason couldn't have had more fun i did it yesterday i'm gonna do it tomorrow so i'm doing two a days i found a personal trainer um as well who's a big disc golf player which i'm gonna let slide i love disc golf i know you do i was thinking about that of course because i'll do a quick 18 you know he's a university of georgia graduate you can imagine the voice I'll do a quick 18 on the weekends. Yeah, 40 minutes, man, if you're out there alone. So I've locked into my fitness routine. I found my people here in Atlanta, so I'm feeling centered. What are some common threads for your people, for your Chris Black folk? Oh, they accept my Venmos for teaching me something that...

pertains to my body okay that's really the only it doesn't really i don't really care about any of the other stuff okay so when you say i've found my people you mean my employees i mean my fitness professionals that i'm able to build with for a small fee i know and you're more than happy to pay their fee yeah i love paying the fee i mean i just it's just you know i was with my my friend for she because we he introduced me to the pro and he was like i'm like do you ever hit with like your friends he's like no i'm like what why not he's like what's the point Like, I'm not going to get better. I'm just going to run around and chase fucking balls all day and watch some guy try to serve. It's a waste of my time. He hits with a pro six days a week. I mean, your friend has a point, and it is definitely a luxury. in LA and New York and other cities, but maybe down in Georgia, one could afford to do that without being a multimillionaire, right? Yeah, yeah, you can. Yeah, you can. I mean, it's much more reasonable. Obviously, your man is papered up, of course. That's true. But there's also a thing that I've noticed, and I've talked to other people about it. Actually, our friend Sam Macon, who we play tennis with, he said he was just in Wisconsin, and he found the local central casting tennis pro. And everyone says the same thing, you know, just like I hit them up and, you know, hit them up, whatever it is. And they fucking wore me out for two hours, bro. Best thing of my life. And it has there is a little bit of an interesting energy. There always has been with the tennis pro or the tennis coach and like the rich guy of like, I want you to put the spurs to me. I want you to smear my guts across this clay court. So there's a little bit of. You know, we were talking, who are we talking to about Billions? We were talking to Guido Gastro about my man from Billions who likes to get stepped upon. Yeah, that's me. And some type of, you know, like people who are in a position of wealth and power want to maybe be dominated by a young 19-year-old, you know, strapping co-ed college player.

And there might be a little bit of cuckold flavor in that mix. I'm obviously not saying that you're one of those people. Not me. No, not me. You're an athlete. Other people do it for more sinister reasons, perhaps. These guys are probably closer to our age than college age. But they did play in college, which sets them apart from us physically. And also, you know, their tennis IQ is incredibly high, much like my regular IQ. Of course. But regardless, he whooped your ass. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. And he probably wasn't even playing at full speed. Oh, no, no. He was playing at 10%. He was sweating, but that's just because it was a little warmer. So that, you know, I'll take it. It's a climate crisis issue. It has nothing to do with Bryce or whatever his name was. I just feel crazy. But I'm glad to be here podcasting with you because. There's a, you know, Pitchfork put out this list of the best songs of the 90s. A decade near and dear to your heart. The only decade that matters musically. 250 songs. There's definitely not 250 good songs maybe ever. So that's a little tough. Total in the history of music. And they've got some, you know, like Brimful of Asha by Corner Shop, which I love. 230? I think it could be a little higher than that, personally. I don't want to get stuck on that, though, because... I think Corner Shop is just glad to be on the list at all. That's true, but I'm kind of speaking up for them. I'm a voice for the voiceless. Pulp, Common People, 18? I think it's a little higher than that. How is Pulp going to be lower on the list than fucking Mobb Deep? Give me a break. I think Common People being an 18 of all time in the 90s... is remarkably higher than i would have expected it to be obviously i love that song it's a great song and it was a hit but it was definitely not like a song that most people in america ever caught wind of no no no you know what i mean but the the top four are i think what's going to really interest you uh dj them jeans and as well as me liz fair fucking run number four which is making me feel very good. Unfortunately, Aaliyah, Are You That Somebody, at number three. So how come all the hip-hop and R&B is unfortunate and bad, and then the boring indie white people rock? Because, like most people, I only care about the things that speak to my taste, and other people can pretend to do something. No, obviously, Are You That Somebody is a fucking classic. My actual issue is that it's from the Dr. Doolittle soundtrack, so the cover art.

has like Dr. Doolittle at the bottom, which kind of cheapens the song because it really is a classic and it definitely should be ahead of Liz Farah. And isn't that a very 90s thing to do? There's so many amazing songs that appear, you know, like there's like the Chili Peppers, Conehead soundtrack. Oh, yeah. Thank God we have a musical guest on today's episode and we can just run down that. We can get into it. But number two, Bjork, Hyper Ballad. number two of all time i mean i guess that's the number two bjork song of all time i don't know the number two song of all music but i want you to i want to understand that i want you to for reference number one is mariah carey fantasy remix featuring old dirty bastard which is a giant song so the fact that a bjork song that is good and was obviously relatively big for bjork is number two and then Mariah Carey Fantasy Remix featuring Earl Dirty Bastard, which was like a massive pop crossover hit. I think this is going to get some of these indie tongues wagging over there at thepitchfork.com. Well, since it is a pitchfork, they did have to throw in some of that pitchfork bait. And if you are an avid pitchfork reader, if you're the one of the 11 people left who is doing that, I mean, obviously, pitchfork still does amazing work. But, you know, the same as what it used to be. But you kind of have to fill in those more esoteric indie artists and not just the biggest, best songs. And it was cool that they put in the Mariah Carey at all, I think. I mean, the only reason any of these lists exist. And not like a tortoise beside. We got a tortoise seven inch on the list. The only reason, I mean, the only good part about the list existing is that it will make people argue, which is one of my. Obviously, that's what the internet is for. Oh, yeah. I mean, you could name four of those 250 songs and I can do an hour-long podcast about it. No, easily. It's manna from heaven for a chatter. That's called Bandsplain over there at the Ringer Network. They've already got something kind of covering that. Shout out to Bandsplain over at the Ringer Network. Over at the Ringer Network. Bill Simmons, come on the pod, you coward. Bill Simmons, put down. Yeah, yeah. Bill Simmons, you're a pussy. We've said that from day one. We're talking to real radio guys on this podcast.

podcast we ain't talking to these little podcasters you know i'm saying it's a little different over here we talk about real stuff not how my socks are doing you know what i mean and i'm not talking about the uniclos i'm talking about the hell yeah i'm talking about the red or the white i'm not talking uh but uh but i wanted to um also discuss uh the the rihanna super bowl oh yeah uh you know the big announcement um which i i it leads me to believe that she must have new music coming how does dj them jeans kind of feel about this because i think rihanna is unfortunately musically over the hill unless she really taps in with some goats taps in with some goats uh i'm afraid i might agree i mean she is in mommy mode i think that she is as big of a legacy artist um as she needs to be to be able to perform the super bowl without there needing to be like a musical release on the horizon that she needs to promote. I think she's in that space where Lady Gaga is and some, you know, Beyonce, other superstars where they don't ever need to release another song for the rest of their life and they can truly do whatever they want. She can make a fucking black metal album and people will still listen to it. She's just in that rarefied air. And I just want Rihanna to run through her fucking... classics do a couple surprises friend of the show frog dances white girls he tweeted he she should just do james joint it's a very short song and it's just her saying i'd rather be smoking weed over and over again you know it's like 54 seconds but if she did that wouldn't that be something special i would rather see that than fucking you know eminem doing a in a fake 64 impala hitting switches you know what i mean not eminem slamming it like he's on the fucking You know, Ghost Protocol Minority Report stream. That was rough. Like he's Zane Lowe on the boards over at Up The Music. That was rough, yeah. Hitting a bunch of buttons that don't do nothing. You know those buttons don't do shit. I agree with you. I think it'll probably... I've seen Rihanna live in concert, actually, at the Barclays Arena. I was very close, and I loved her performance.

But it's a little lazy. That's kind of her swag. You know what I mean? Which I like. Yeah, she comes onto the stage with a half-eaten mango in her hand. Fucking mango swisher in the other hand. And she's just like, all right, let's do it. But it's amazing because she's authentically herself. So it's just like Rihanna could just be like, hey, I'm going to do some Toad the Wet Sprocket covers tonight. And I'm going to be like, yes. Don't start speaking my language. We do have a guest today. We're going to find out what he thinks about Toad and the Wet Sprocket. Superstar DJ Zane Lowe, you know him from his infamous BBC Radio 1 show from 2003 to 2015. Radio 1. And now he is the Apple creative director of the worldwide music station, Apple Music 1, where he's got another show. He is from New Zealand, so we will, of course, get into that. But it's nice to have a professional, and him and Jason are going to kind of go. go back and forth on what the cue button is really for. Wonderful. And then you and him can go on about someone's process in the booth. Exactly. Can't wait to tune in with Zane. Let's give him a zingle. I like zingle a lot. That's cool. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. The news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world. And I know you particularly have quite a lot of questions. A lot of questions. But how often? Because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot. How many times do they do? Three times a week. And I have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do. That's just a guess. The Guardian is not some billionaire owned. They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcast. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? You know, especially when it's not, you know, from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince.

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handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive, and that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app. using promo code howlong. Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book Trusted Home Help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code howlong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. We've got our terms and conditions on how we communicate as people. We can begin. Yeah, this is us asking for consent and you doing the same, and I'm glad that we were able to kind of figure that out before we got started. Are you coming to us live from the Apple One Studios in beautiful Culver City? We are indeed. Well, I am. We, I, yes. I'm in the Apple One Studio A here in Culver City in our first sort of like, this is the first kind of Apple designed. radio studios that we got to move into after our kind of hurried and hectic beginning. What's your destroyer order, if you don't mind me asking, Zane? Very good. That's some inside baseball right there. You know, I hit him with an oat milk flat white. Got to get my flatty in. Flatty. Got to get a flatty in. Got to get my flatty in. Just tastes bitter. Got to get a flatty in. Might get a little avo on some spelt bread with some seed action. Oh, yeah. That bread is dank, isn't it? Full of seeds. There's a lot of seeds. It's not the seediest bread I've ever eaten in my life. That was almost unedible. Wow. Okay. Shots fired. So you're saying there's some bread that has more seeds that you've had. But it doesn't necessarily mean it's better, Chris. Exactly. No. I mean, shots not fired because I actually found that the seed to bread ratio on the seediest bread I've ever eaten was just unedible. At a certain point, there's only so much the loaf can take. And this is sort of the style of conversation that we're going to be doing today, Zane. You ready for it? There's only so much a loaf can take. And I mean, if you're going to attack a loaf that's really heavy.

the seed to yeast count, then in order to mask the overwhelming texture of seeds, which are fine if they're in a hand and loose because you can adjust them in your mouth accordingly, but if they're going to be in a pre-designed framework, architecturally designed seeded bread, then you need a spread of exceptional strength. I mean, you're talking about an original Australian Marmite or a Vegemite that's going to be able to take that hit. Okay, all right, calm down. I knew you were, okay. We know that New Zealand and Australia are in your pockets, as always, and they've sent you here to kind of infiltrate our country. um you see you started first with england you kind of did your thing there and they're like okay it's time for your final mission you're going to you're going to los angeles me celeste barber who else there's a lot of you kevin parker yeah oh parker parker's already done too much tyker man tyker is definitely um he's definitely doing the government's work so what is the what is the what is the different now i'm not as educated as you guys of course uh but what is the difference between Now, is Marmite, is that just the non-vegetarian version, or is that just a different flavor altogether? Gosh darn it, you asked me the question I have no answer for. I don't actually have never known. It's something that you really should sort of get taught in your kindergarten years at preschool, but I don't know the difference. I know that I prefer Vegemite over Marmite, and I couldn't even... Good man, good man. Well, Chris, I got it for you. Marmite has a burnt brown color, sticky consistency, similar to syrup. Vegemite, on the other hand, is a black paste that's more thick like peanut butter. Okay, so it's similar flavor. Yeah, it sounds like the same shit to me. Yeah, it's a personal preference on spreadability is what it sounds like to me. Careful. If you guys want to go down and do your pod tour down under, which is quite a burgeoning market for live conversation, you need to be careful about how many shots are firing Vegemite. It's funny that you say that. We've been approached by some promoters in the motherland. And I would like to. I don't know if there's any way for us to not lose money just kind of based on my flight requirements alone.

But maybe... Oh, so you turn left? Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, you know, Chris has a certain standard of living that he has to sort of abide by now. And we ran the numbers on how many tickets we can sell versus how much first-class travel costs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's not really adding up at this point just quite yet. Zane, don't pull bullshit like you. When's the last time you flew coach, big dog? Let's be honest. Are you talking to Jason or are you talking to me? No, I'm talking... I know when Jason flew coach. It's the last time he was on a plane. I'm talking to you. Oh, fuck off! laughter laughter I love the idea of Jason rolling up to your house sometime, Chris, and going, do we do the same part? Yeah, I mean, that is my dream. Unfortunately, I'm a really great boss, and I'm really about employees' rights, and Jason has formed a one-man union, which is kind of fucking me right now, but I have to let it go because I want him to show up for work. I think when it's a one-person union, it's just a tantrum, isn't it? Yes, that's what I would say. Yeah, it's pretty much just me. I'm yelling into a megaphone saying, stand tall brother. Not brothers. It's just me. Singular brother. Now, Zane, before we dig too deep into this wonderful convo, I was doing a little research on, like, surely you've done zillions of interviews over the years. Video, audio, podcast, all that. And I was looking up. Trying to see what podcast you've done where you were the guest. Have we ever spoken in your other life? Do we ever talk about them gene stuff? I don't think so. I mean, we may. I used to have a little. I've definitely played your music. Thank you, Zane. I do have a little bit of a history. I have a history in the Radio 1 beats. beats world okay i was a co-host on a show with the fat jew remember him yes we that was a man that was a that's a day one up that was a day one experience that's right and um and adam is is is his manager right adam i don't know maybe yeah he's done well man holy shit unfortunately yeah he didn't he did quite well but i had to hang out with ebro instead of you

Yeah, I know. Sorry about that. It's all good. It's all good. It was a great show. But we'll get more on that later. But the point I was trying to make is I didn't really find any podcast where you were a guest being interviewed. I found one podcast where you did Jessie Ware and her mom. They do a podcast. It's sort of food related. And it's a lovely show. as I've heard before, but you were a guest on that show, I'm like, oh, great, they're going to interview Zane, they're going to bust his balls, there's going to be some good British humor. And it was just you interviewing them on their own podcast. So have you ever done a podcast where you were the guest? There's two ways you can look at this really poignant observation. One is that you have an exclusive right here. The second one is that when it comes to crossing the threshold into pod world, I have been consistently told, sorry, mate, you're not on the fucking list. Wow. Your name's not down. You're not coming in. Exactly. So you can look at it either way. But I don't know. roundabout entry into the podcasting because in a way i was doing podcasts for fucking years and just they just weren't called podcasts and then by the time everybody found a way into podcasts i think people probably thought that like why would we talk to a guy who talks to people sure sure either that or i'm just not likable no i mean well i was talking to chris before the show and i was i pointed out that observation And I was like, are we going to – it's win-win for us. We're either going to be interviewed by Zane Lowe on our own podcast, which is a wonderful feather in the cap, or we get to be, in my knowledge, the first people to interview Zane Lowe on a podcast, which is an equally great feather in the cap. The truth is I've done a couple others. I did a Gary Vee one because Gary talked to anybody. I'm just kidding. Gary's been very kind to me. And then I did a Phil. Keegan won. Phil is the creator and host of The Amazing Race. Oh, okay. And so I may have only been on sort of three podcasts that I can think of to date. But if you think about Jessie Ware and her mom, Gary Vaynerchuk and Phil Keegan, I'm pretty flossy in it. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're touching a lot of bases. And they're very far away from each other. I mean, yeah. I mean, Gary...

I mean, obviously, Gary Vee is a douchebag. Not your words, our words, but if he calls me and says, come do my podcast, I'll be like, hell yeah, this is going to be awesome. Yeah, well, that's the great two-faced side of show business. I mean, you know, once you realize that it's okay to use it, you got to use it. It's how it goes, right? It's like, man, I fucking hate that guy. And then you meet him at a party and you're like, big fan, big fan. Oh, so you've met Chris. Yeah, that's my whole thing. So I've come around on a few people because actually we had... We had the 1975 on the show, and I've been kind of an adamant anti-Jack Antonoff, kind of leader of the movement. He really rubs some people up, huh? It's interesting when you mention Jack Antonoff. Well, no, not him as a person. No, but as a producer. As a producer, that's what I mean. Yeah, he's ruined some careers of people I quite like. So I'm a little up in arms about it. The guys from 1975 were like, no, bro, you would love this guy. You need to build with him. So now I think it's time for me to kind of cross the bridge and invite Jack on to How Long Gone to see if we can squash it. That's what podcasting is all about. It is. It is. It is. What you do is you create an imaginary beef and then you create an imaginary solution. Exactly. Chris is down to explore growth emotionally as a person as long as we could. sell more ads against that you know what i mean yeah dude i'll do the work you gotta keep turning lift and if you want to keep turning lift you have to sell the ads yeah that's how it goes well actually that reminds me of a subject i also wanted to talk to you about um you know and you said that you the podcast world for whatever reason is not as interested in you as you you think they are did i say that You said the podcast world doesn't want me or something like that? No one's running down the road throwing invitations under my door. The bit I take exception to, Jason, is I never expected them to. I never thought they would. I never went into this more condensed, populated...

focused place where conversation is the only thing like remember like my interviews came from music i i got my my whole life's journey started because i listen and love music and then later on it was like oh there's some conversation that we can have around this and then over time i suppose that gets deeper and a little bit deeper and a little bit deeper and here i am now at this point in my life but i i never ever sort of I never woke up when I was a kid and all my synapses were firing and I was seeing the world and all what was possible and thought, talk. Sure, I understand. That wasn't my dream. I didn't either. It found me. Yeah, but also you're in a position like a Howard Stern or something like that where… Even if you were getting a bunch of offers to do podcasts, why the hell would you? You're locked in. You're in this amazing position where you kind of have so much power. You get to do whatever you want, and you make a good salary. It doesn't depend on ratings. It doesn't depend on any of those things. So why would you? That's fair. But I guess my point is, at a certain point, I'm sure you're going to have a long, illustrious career at Apple, but eventually you will be sent out to pasture. So my question is, Are you going to switch to Patreon or an ad-supported revenue stream? That's a great question. I haven't given it enough thought. I need to start thinking about this. As soon as you mentioned the P word. We're decades away from this, but I'm just planting the seed as your financial advisor. I don't know, man. I might do something altogether different. How many real estate holdings do you have currently? Because that could be a nice pivot for you. Just something to think about. You've got to diversify. I mean, talky-talky is never going to be enough. What do you do with the money you make from the talky-talky? I don't know, man. That's exactly right. I haven't really... I haven't got any defined timeline of how long this thing kicks around for. The truth is, not to be all serious, because I know that's not the MO necessarily here, but I just think...

I do like to – I'm trying to stay in the moment. I'm trying to stay present in the conversation. The thing I like about talking to people is that I can't really think about the parts of my life that stress me out and I can't really give in to anxiety and I can't really let depression and things that have really fucked me up in the past kind of take a hold of me because if I do that, then I'm not listening to what you're saying and then I'm a shit guest or a shit interviewer and then I'm out of a job. So by its very nature, by staying in the present moment, I'm sort of just holding on. And then when I let go, I don't know. I don't know what I'll do. Like I said, I may decide to just fulfill some other ambition or dream in my life. Yeah, I guess that is. I apologize for that question now that you framed it that way. I guess it's sort of like asking Michael Jordan, like, hey, when you're done with basketball, are you going to be on TNT or ESPN? It's not a question you should ever apologize for. I mean, it's a fucking great question. But it's like, hey, do you want to think about your dream job ending? Yeah, I mean that only in terms of how good Apple stock is performing lately. Yeah, this has nothing to do with the new studio or anything. This is only equity, sweetheart. No, no, I just think that you get to – we interview people, you interview people. It's kind of the same shit, really. But I feel like you're able to pull stuff out. You're a real pro. You've been doing this for a long time. But what happened now – because you're talking about staying present, which I think is – Sometimes difficult. So when the shit is – I don't know if it's going to go off the rails with you necessarily because I think people are so prepared for it and they understand what they're getting into. But if somebody is just – being a little too much of a, you know, hard nut to crack. Yeah. That's when I start scrambling a little bit because we've had some duds on this podcast, just like you've had some duds. Yeah. We don't, you know, we don't have producers. We don't have notes, blah, blah, blah. But like, you know, I just, where do you go? You know what I mean? Where do you go to kind of keep it moving? Well, thank you for asking a good question. Unlike your colleague who asked a terrible question before. We're just getting started.

You thought that was fucking bad. One apology is not going to be enough. That's a fucking great question. I've scrambled before for sure. I've definitely been totally directionless in real time. There's way, way harder and worse predicaments to find yourself in than being lost for words or being a little bit out of... out of ideas when someone's staring at you and they haven't given you the answer or the amount of answer you needed in order to stay present but um it just it takes it for me when back in the day it would take me back to like sort of anxiety dreams you know like like just all those things like like oh my god i've woken up and i have an exam today and i've and i haven't studied for it all that shit that kind of like is a recurring nightmare for kids because it's like trauma training So you just get that feeling in real time like, oh, man, I'm totally called out here. Like I'm unprepped. I'm screwed. And so now I lean in to it. I try to be really unaffected by it and just think. This is an experience just like a good experience happened yesterday. This one is just as real as that one was and just keep it as human as possible. I mean, I had one the other day with somebody who's actually a really good friend of mine who was just kind of wasn't really in the mood to be interviewed and wasn't rude, but was just trying to find his answers. It was early and he was just like, man, you know, it wasn't snapping. It was just, you know, we had to just kind of take our time. And rather than me try and rush him and try and push him or try to overcompensate, which is how I've definitely handled it in the past. I just let it go and just let those silences go and just not judge him and not be mad and not be upset and not let my ears get in the way. And at the end, he was like, oh, man, you know, there was moments there I was just trying to find what I was trying to say. And I said, that's entirely your – you have every right to do that.

That's more of a them genes method. I'm more of a I'm going to make fun of you until you respond kind of thing. That's okay. Therapy will iron that out like it does for everybody. I think it's sort of like when I get an argument or something like that with my partner, I can sense that something is wrong. I can sense that there's some tension. nobody's talking about it and sometimes you kind of have to crash the plane and start over again or just to let some steam out and be like well this is going bad isn't it you know like just little things like that you know you gotta get over your like ego is a funny thing right because it's like such powerful fuel when you need it and it comes from such a real place it's like it's just such you juice you know all those people didn't believe in me like fuck you i'm drinking the juice i'm the fucking best you know but but you know you can use that to like propel you a little further down the road a bit faster like you know it's like that nitrous button in those cars and the fucking fast and furious movies like but then eventually you'll crash right like you'll just fucking it will totally drive you off the road and um and so for me it's like i try as much as possible to to live an egoless existence so i'm quoting kurt hammett from some kind of all right bro all right bro look i've seen you i know you interviewed rick rubin but like you don't have to you don't have to steal his swag too exactly no i'm i'm retracting that statement it was for human purposes only like i'm still as much of a nightmare at times as anybody and certainly as i have been but um i try not to let it get in the conversation space where i i try not to take it too fucking personally man i try not to and sometimes it happens sometimes you're like man and mainly that comes from like man i this could have been so good like i knew my shit i know you could i know that you're great on your day and this could have been something so great for people to listen to and it just didn't land and so it's more than missed opportunity that truly fucking stings um but in terms of it being like what a waste of my time like

Fuck that. You're lucky you have any time at all. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I never feel like I wasted my time doing this. I've never had that. I'm sure Jason might have because he does the editing, but I've never really felt like that. Even if it's bad, I'm like, whatever. Jason always equated it to being on a bad date. It's like, I don't give a shit. I'm going to eat dinner anyway, so I'll just make this fun. What difference does it make? What's really funny is a lot of the time, the people who've fallen in love with this... this, um, podcast and this whole world that you've built and stuff is, um, they, they want it. They want to hear all of it. Like if you, if everything's just goes one way all the time, um, then it's, there's no, there's no kind of seasons to this whole thing, you know? And, uh, and too much sunshine is annoying too. So it's like, you know, it's no, you're right. You're right. Yeah. I think, I think it's very, it's very easy to have an enjoyable, good conversation and entertaining, you know, conversations going well. I think it's a lot more challenging and interesting to have a conversation that's going terribly be entertaining. And then that sort of enters sort of like a Nathan Fielder kind of. Well, also just leave it in. Like, leave it in. Like, we have this real sort of propensity as a species to try to iron out all of our wrinkles. And, like, if it's fucking awkward, it's awkward. There isn't a human being on the planet today that isn't going to have some kind of awkward experience with somebody. Just lean into it. Leave in those grays. Just leave it, man. Just fucking leave it, dude. Just leave it, man. Leave it, bro. Leave it alone. I'm going to take that. I'm going to be more standoffish on this show so that we can kind of create some of that. Jason, just take that note down if you don't mind. There's that boss gene in full effect. Look at that, man. A couple times already in the show, you mentioned a common response that a lot of people have. that get interviewed a lot or around the interview world a lot is somebody asks a question and you'll say, oh, that's a really good question. I did, didn't I? And that always reminds me of, I mean, obviously you say that because you're so used to, you've heard every question because you've asked it or you've heard. Actually, there's multiple reasons for that, Jason. One.

is we ask questions so often we want to give positive affirmations to others because we know what it is to be on the receiving end of an answer so definitely it's it's kind of like a little bit of a quid pro quo like You're asking me a question now. I know what it's like to be on your side of the desk, and so let me just put some good will into the air. But the flip side of it is also if it's a really good question, it should be acknowledged. And I thought that was a really good question, and you're just salty because you had to apologize for a question directly before it. Well, to finish the rest of my sentence, no longer a question statement he switched gears on us he switched it up he switched gears mid-answer he was like i'm not even asking you a question anymore i'm just gonna tell you what the fuck is up it's a two-part it's a two-parter question and i'll get to the part two but that sentence always reminds me and i'm also somebody who's guilty of saying that all the time uh and but it reminds me whenever You say something funny around a comedian, and instead of laughing, they say, oh, that's really funny. I know. That's a really weird one. And it comes off in kind of a dickish way at first glance, but like you just sort of reaffirmed, it really is a sign of like, oh, fuck, I've been asked 4,000 questions or I've heard 4,000 jokes today. They're all bad. I just heard a good one. That's awesome. And I wonder, how do you say... Oh, that's a really good question. Or, oh, that's really funny. Without sounding, you know, maybe insincere. I'm just asking as a, you know, a little pro tip. That's a really good question. I think you do it. You do it with your answer is the honest answer. Yeah, yeah. If you say it's a really good question and give a shitty answer, then. you're lying if it's a really good question and you take your time and give a thoughtful answer and perhaps stretch yourself into territory you haven't actually explored in conversation on the record before because the question took you there then you stand by that statement good question good answer we got a lot a lot to learn from you because i i know that you've talked to my number one you know my number one dream guest for this podcast

at least currently, is Harold Stylish. Not Liam Gallagher. I think Harold would be a better guest. Liam, I think I would rather hang out with, maybe. You guys are Anglophiles, huh? Well, you know, look, man, they've given us a lot. And, you know, you're part of the problem, you know what I mean, over there at the propaganda BBC Radio 1. Oh, I was all about that. You raving or behaving. They've given us the best music, you know what I mean? They've given us the best music, and I just, you know, I saw you, I believe you and Harold, you sat down in like a backyard. i believe we did uh we've had two now we did two big ones and both of them were kind of the theme was sunsets i don't know why i think the first one the sunset behind us and fans dug it and so we then had to go that's nice we found a place to do one where there was a great sunset the problem was is that he was in a hurry for some reason we were supposed to start at a certain time and he came out like an hour earlier and was like okay so shall we begin and so we had to sit down and and and so what was supposed to take like I suppose 75 minutes leaning into the perfect sunset over the mountains of Palm Springs ended up stretching out well into two hours because I realized about halfway through we're not going to make the fucking sunset. So the conversation really became about the time-space continuum and at what point the sun was going to set. But it was still awesome, man. And you'd really like him. I mean, no one doesn't like him. That's the thing, right? But with someone like that, I mean, I just feel like with someone like that, that is such a pro. I mean, truly doesn't get more pro than that. Yeah, but he doesn't give away a lot either. The thing that's interesting about Harry is that he's a wonderful conversationalist, but he also 100% knows where his boundaries are. um and what he's willing to say not willing to say that's what i mean by pro that's kind of what i mean by pro is like it comes off as really engaging and interesting and funny and like you love him but then when you finish you're like oh this motherfucker didn't give me he gave me what he needed to give me but didn't give me one sentence more than that which i think is truly like

The sign of like an elevated celebrity. I think that that's like when you're destined for a higher tier, that behavior, it comes a little bit easily and more naturally for you. But it depends what you're going for, right? What you want to get out of it. Initially, you go into those kind of conversations with anyone of that level of a sort of success or fascination and you're like, I need to come away with, like, I need the hits. Like, I need big talking points. And I realized after the first one that Harry knew where his boundaries were, and I respected him for it. And when I actually sort of... listen to a little bit of it back, which I don't often do. I realized that he was saying a lot, but he just was doing it in a way, and most importantly, at a pace that he was comfortable with, right? And so I was going, and you won't, but if anyone watched the first one versus the second one, I'm way more kind of interactive and jumping into his pauses. On the second one, I was like, all right, I know how he likes to run his conversation space. He doesn't do a lot of this stuff. So let's just have an experience on his terms. And that actually was really fun. It just it meant that I wasn't sort of looking to try to pivot or twist the conversation in certain ways. For me, I was like, bro, right now you could be reading me a bedtime story and I'd be meditating through it. Sure, sure. I really just I just wanted to have a really very productive and good experience with. Yeah, that's the fans. Yeah, but that's also interesting because I think that like getting to have and we'll probably get there, too. But, you know, getting to have. the same person of that stature on and have multiple conversations and kind of understand what's going to work better and like learn from your fur. That's like, you know, that's pretty invaluable. You know what I mean? As far as like honing, honing your craft. It's, it's like, yeah, everyone we've ever recorded with is the first time we've ever talked to them in most cases. But you, you, you will talk to, you know, a Maddie or a Charlie again, or somebody, you know, and you, yeah, for sure. And when you do, then.

you know you will naturally kind of want to take it into a different space harry such a it's interesting you bring him up because a lot of people watch our conversations but not a lot of people want to talk about them and well actually it's not true because no one really wants to talk to me about my conversations at all so perhaps he's just maybe that's because all the people all the people watching them are 11 it's really about me and no one wants to talk to me exactly uh but but so so with that being said i haven't really had a chance to really talk to many people about the harry piece um beyond fans who want to talk to me at concerts and shit so uh stuff so um The interesting thing about him is that I like the pace at which he speaks, and I like the way he searches for his answers, and I like how he's aware of where he wants to draw a line. I think there's something really valuable in knowing that that exists because it pushes you. It pushes you to try to form a conversation that is deeper, I think. It's a more human experience. I also think, to me, it's like an old-school kind of like there's a little mystery, and I think that's something that we're – deeply lacking with celebrity in the modern age is that we just know too much about all these bozos and it makes you like it makes it it makes the art less powerful you know what i mean like i don't want to see i don't want to see harry styles you know on instagram stories at whole foods i don't want to see that i want to see yeah i only want to see harry styles wearing gucci on a stage looking like think you know in bowie mode that's all i want to see you know what i mean at jfk yeah looking glorious no but no but if you see him at jfk he knows So when he shows up at JFK, what he's wearing and how he's carrying himself, he knows what it is to live his life like this right now. He knows. And he also knows when to disappear. And what was really cool about that conversation was when he talked about that drive to Italy on his own. um in his in his dad's car or stepdad's car which was i think it was which was a really moving story but no one knew that that never made the prayers no one ever talked about like oh you know harry's driving to italy he knows how to switch off if you can know when to be the subject of attention and you also know when to disappear you cracked it no no no i i i completely agree with you i just think that it's like

for someone younger to to approach it that way is just i think it's because if you're famous that young you almost don't have a choice because it's like you'll just get burnt the fuck out if you don't kind of yeah regulate yourself a little bit you don't have a choice now because we have experience and examples of people who've burnt the fuck out because they didn't regulate and i think that that's i was talking to someone about this last night actually it's really interesting you bring this up because i was talking to i'm sure you won't mind me blowing him up blowing him up but there's this there's this great artist called fred again who's also a producer called fred gibson and fred again's like he's incredible and and we were having this dinner last night and we were talking about how um it feels like people at a certain level of success now that that preserving your mental health is like high if not top priority and and i feel for decades it wasn't even considered part of the equation well i've got some i've got some thoughts on this too i've got some thoughts on this and it still shouldn't be i mean yeah i'm a little bit like just kidding i'm a little bit burnt out on the canceling the tour uh for mental health when i can look and see that tickets aren't selling That's what I'm not for. Quite a cynical approach you're taking there, mate. Well, I'm a cynical guy. I agree with you. I mean, I think some of it's real and some of it's not, and that's the problem. It's like anything else. It's like you can become the boy who cried wolf very quickly with anything because the eyeballs. It can be used or abused. Yeah, it's just one of those things. But I think there's some truth to it, of course. But then you have Santi Gold, who, and I need to really read the post before I actually. quote her on the post but based on on the news story we did today and i and i hope i get this right um and i'll make sure that i qualify it after i've said it is that um you know she came out and said like i'm not going to tour um at the time when i wanted to tour because it's just not sustainable for me to do so and and the way that things are built and structured right now from my perspective as an artist um they don't work in my favor and and until that works out then i i'm not going to extend myself any further i simply can't and so there's a very honest

reaction oh no i think it's a very honest reaction i think it's honest but i'm also a little bit like i i think we all and this is probably not for the best but we expect more from these people you know what i mean we expect them to deliver as they promise you know i mean and not even because like we got a babysitter and we spent a hundred dollars on tickets i just mean in general but i also think that there's like a I think it's a different time that we're living in. Well, that's interesting. Let's go there because I really – I think there's a difference between showing up and putting on the show that you've committed to and promoting and encouraging people to want to come and see a show and drawing them into your world and getting into that relationship between the art and the fan. I think that's a commitment. But I think that for a very long time, we've expected a lot from probably – the most vulnerable person in this whole room. You know, the artist is the most vulnerable in the whole equation. And, and yet we sort of expect a huge amount of carrying to be done by the artist. And, and really the only argument that ever gets thrown out there when things get canceled is, Oh, boo hoo. poor you with your rich millions and trillions of dollars and your dreams come true. And that whole bullshit, which is like, okay, first of all, the financial reality of that is not even generally speaking the truth. And secondly, just because you're on radio or you're on stage or you're having a great time doing what you love to do doesn't mean that it's a given that you're going to be able to, you're set for life. So artists need to work too. So don't think that they're cancelling tours because they don't need to tour. They need to fucking tour. No, that's their biggest, I mean, that's usually their biggest income. certain level you know they it's it's definitely leaving money on the table if if totally you know if it goes as planned totally but the problem is is that is that we we've spent too long with this kind of psychology of like if you if you make something and you share it then then um you know you need to support it until you till you're sort of like literally to the bone exhausted and i think that um it's not actually good for anybody's

sort of human experience like oh man it's really i was talking to a dj about this right sky hardwell who's like one of the big edm like success stories and he was saying he walked away and a part of it was because avici passed away and it really hit him hard and he was like man i need to go away and reassess what this all means and part of it was because he was just completely burnt out and and when and i posted this thing up on my social media feed and also pointed to the podcast like this is interesting you know if you've ever gone to any of these events 80 000 people in a speedway losing your head to dry ice and fucking confetti cannons then understand that there's a flip side to this whole kind of party zone, which is that it's because I've done it. I took it for 10 years. It's fucking exhausting, right? And at some point, you're going to burn out on this shit. Like, waking up. traveling, DJing till three in the morning. Everyone's like, yeah, well, you don't have to drink, don't you? Like when you're there at the club at 12, unless you're tea total, if you were at the club at 12.30 PM and someone gives you a fucking free bottle of champagne or a bottle of wine or a bottle of glass or something and you're like, I'm fucking exhausted. It becomes like, it has always become in the entertainment industry, a crutch, a distraction, a numbing from the reality that you're burnt out. And the next thing you know, you're done. And I put it up there and the point is like a ton of people split. 50% of people were like, thank you for putting a conversation up that's actually real about this. And the 50% were like, boo, fucking hoo. And I was like, oh, shit. I mean, I see both sides of it as a person who understands and also as a person who – I think the public at large has very little empathy for celebrity or anyone that is basically richer than they are. For lack of a better, for lack of a more eloquent term. And I think that obviously this stuff is really hard. It's also physically taxing beyond the mental part. If you're doing real shit every night, it's going to take a toll on you. But I do think that the way that we've exalted musicians and celebrities in our culture, it's very difficult for the layman to feel sympathy for them. And that's where this 50-50 comes from. Sympathy.

It's interesting that you use that word because I don't really sort of like know why sympathy would even factor into it on a good day or a bad day. Like do the tour, don't do the tour. Why would anyone need to show sympathy? In what sense? Well, like why would I need to be like I have no sympathy for you? Like surely if you had a ticket, you'd get your money back. you love the artist you'll hold the line and wish them well and if you're not either of those things don't be entertained by the story so move on and don't even offer an opinion and that's the thing i think that part of this is yeah that's fair actually that's a good point is a real part of the real problem that we have here is that we lean into these things we fucking shout about it we burn it to the ground and then we act like we didn't want the fucking trees anyway so it's like what what are we doing like These are real people doing real shit. I don't think anyone pulls a tour and wants sympathy. I think the best they can hope for is understanding. I think they expect anger and frustration from a certain portion of people who do ultimately because they're having a bad day. Like, I was looking forward to that. This is fucking bullshit. I think anybody who cancels anything goes into it understanding that's a reality. And I think they hope that that turns around. And at the end of the day, they can come back and put on the show they want. But anyone who's just kind of in the cheap seats showing or not showing sympathy can kind of fuck off. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what you really think about that. I mean, it's just, it's just, this is, it's like, it's just, this is, this is real life. This is real life. People get tired. People get fucking burnt out. Shit goes on. Life goes on. I got shit going on in my life right now. No one knows about. It's to do with like my family stuff, like in New Zealand and shit. Like it's just, shit goes on and you do your best to not let it affect your performance or what you're doing all your life because you take your job seriously. But shit goes on all the time. No, for sure. All the time. And until we get to a point where we actually let the human experience be multifaceted and layered without trying to, like, demonize people, I just don't know who's benefiting. Oh, I definitely don't know who's benefiting. I think that's a very good question. Like, I don't know. Everyone loses. I think whoever, you know, Twitter, Facebook.

TikTok, Instagram, they're benefiting. Yeah, but even that just becomes a terrible dirge, a thrash, an undertow of a really, really rough, short dump wave. It just doesn't survive. If that's all you are as a platform, you're fucked medium term. Well, I also think that the... fan culture has gotten that absolute i mean i'm sure you experience this on a literally daily basis but it's gotten completely out of control you know what i mean like the dedication is so crazy now that it's like any misstep is considered like a crime and that takes us yeah and that takes us kind of back to the original sort of discussion point which is like how do we sort of at least create awareness no one wants to stop somebody at a certain point in their life being passionate about something right that's what drives the whole narrative of life you know if i couldn't have been passionate and at times sometimes over demanding of the people that moved me i wouldn't have done what i've done with my life like that's what being a fan of something is right but at the same time i think it's just about awareness and i think Where we really can do some positive good is that when somebody does have the courage to raise their hand and say, I know I'm letting a lot of you down, but I just got to go and figure some shit out, that we at least protect the narrative from the people who don't actually have any investment in it. So it's like if you're a true fan and it's like you're upset, yeah, be heard. But if you're just part of people throwing shit at the stage just because you bought a ticket, you have no idea who you're actually throwing. shit at like go do something else with your life like it's really not useful no no i don't think it's useful i would agree with you but it's it's been a It's been an interesting couple of years, I think, because a lot of this stuff also, like the behind-the-scenes kind of business stuff, is now reported on in a different way for the layman to invest in. Yeah, that's true. That's a lot of information. If that makes sense. What do you do with that information, right? You react to it, and eventually it becomes a service. I get it, man. It's very human. We all do it. I still yell at the TV. I still do it. It's totally human to do it. I just think we have to pull up from trying to actively hurt.

people if you're in your living room and you're just fucking going this is bullshit great totally it's bullshit yeah that doesn't affect anyone it's bullshit and you know what be conscious of the fact that you're just being a dick right now be in dick mode but it's like um you know if you're gonna go you know if it's if it's about actively going out to hurt other people then wow what is you know we're sort of a naive funny little species aren't we you know at the end of the day well we we fuck up we fuck up every day in a myriad of ways and i'm glad that you recognize that totally man i'm i'm a fuck up hey can you guys hear me hi jace yeah okay sorry Sorry, sorry. No, I was talking, and I don't know if you guys were hearing me. I didn't mean that in a passive-aggressive way. I was going to say, he's the pass-ag one. He's the pass-ag one in the team. It was purely from a technical standpoint. So can you guys hear me out there? Am I coming in? I'm just trying to make sure I can come in. Is this thing on? Is this thing on, fellas? I thought this was a three-way. I'm feeling neglected. No, okay, we were talking about... I was recently listening to an episode that you did with Stevie Nicks, and she was talking about how back in the day, if you have a tour planned, you just can't cancel it because there's contracts and there's the crew and the venues and employees and people with families and stuff that you have to consider. Obviously, there's a big age thing attached to that, whereas somebody from her generation, a woman in her 70s or however old she is, You come from a time where you just don't cancel it. And nowadays people are like, well, I'm going to cancel it. And I'm not saying one way is better than the other. I think they're both, you know, faulted in certain ways. She's from a stubborn era and the current young generation has sort of had an awakening of like, well, I can say no if it really means, you know, I could die from doing this. There's a few things to take into account there. One, you know, Fleetwood Mac.

So, you know, and in that particular case, what she was referring to was the tour that they had booked with Lindsay Buckingham. And then Lindsay and Fleetwood Mac had parted ways. And so it was about like, well, this is really public knowledge now. Lindsay's not in the band. We've kind of shat the bed as a band. We've lost a member. Yes, they have. You can't spin this. It's like someone's left a band. This is before hologram technology was perfected yet, so there wasn't really a lot of options. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's a band not making up an excuse. They're saying, look, a band member's left. So at the very least, what can we do to keep the show on the road? Now, there's no guarantees that it's going to work. They're going to find a suitable replacement. In the end, they found two. See if Kei Trinata's around, someone in there. He would have been amazing. Incredible. It's Fleetwood Mac. They would have had a long line of suitors. But the fact that they went and chose Mike Campbell and Neil Finn and they got the show moving and everything else. They were true to their ambition, which is to your point, and this is to your point too, Chris, to do right by the fans, to stick to their commitment and get it done. And I think that there are really large financial implications. Fleetwood Mac Stadiums, huge numbers, big insurance policies, a lot of stuff kicking around that if you can avoid getting into that sort of mess, then you should. And I think that they had the appetite to carry on. Their thing was like, we want to keep doing the shows. It's just Lindsay's not the band anymore. So how can we do the shows? Now, I think when you're talking about this, I think it's like three or four artists in the last few months that have pulled tours and decided mental health is the reason, which is why this is a topic that it's the second time I've spoken about this today, right? We talked about it as a team on the show today as well. And I say that only to say that it's a hot topic to some degree. So, you know, wet leg. um sean mendez you know sam fender there's someone else i can't remember and sandy gold sandy gold yeah but again i thought her answer was pretty up front and honest and they all were but it wasn't it didn't feel like a mental health statement to me maybe it's our same reason for not going to australia it's just yeah we just can't it's just financially it's just not gonna pan out for us right it's the destruction of the destruction of the middle class in terms of live performance

as well as the rest of the world all very valid reasons right i'm i have to go sort my head out well i have to go sort my business out we've all got to go sort some shit out and so i think that um yeah we can all sit here and compare ourselves to fleetwood mac but fuck man they're fleetwood mac you know if anyone's gonna that's true if anyone's gonna problem solve it's gonna be irving he's gonna sit there with a man and be like i got this we can do this we can do this but conversely Could you name a band that needed to take mental health breaks more than Fleetwood Mac, but they never did, you know? Yeah, exactly. They might be the number one of all time. Like, of all the bands that have, like, had, like, cocaine sword fights at five in the morning, you know, like that, they're pretty high up there, and they needed it the most. I'll tell you why. It was worth the wait, Chris. It took him 45 minutes, but he delivered a fucking zinger, didn't he, huh? He delivered a zinger. I mean, he's right. He makes a great point, and he is right. And perhaps there's some irony in there. I don't know if it's Alanis Morissette-level irony, but it's definitely some kind of form of irony where the band, to your point, they lost a band member. I guess speaking to what you're saying, Jason, if anyone can keep the show on the road, it's them. No, they're a bad example, is the reality. They're a bad example. There are tons of artists that probably should have walked away. um early there are bands that would still be around today if they'd walked away early i'll pull up from going any further than that because when it gets to a point of personal health um i think there's a lot of play i think there's a lot of play i think you can put it down to one aspect of a job or a situation is there's a lot going on and it's very unique into every to every individual but i mean i definitely believe there was and it's been on the record many times of some bands that that would have still been making records today if they had sort of found a way to get off the road

um a little earlier um but it's tough man the money's good the road is is perpetual everyone's kind of just pushing you to keep going keep going keep going keep going even with the best of intentions it's tough man it's not an easy thing to walk away from jason i talked about i mean obviously we're not doing any real touring but when we were on tour even doing our show it's like the the kind of predictability of every day and knowing where you have to be at a certain time in this way yeah is like kind of comforting It's a North Star is what I said. Yeah, you're working towards a common goal with a big group of people, and it feels good. Yeah, you get that endorphin rush. Even in the bad times. Yeah. You get that bump at the end of the show, and everyone's high-fiving, and you feel invincible. You could do it for the rest of your life, but eventually it just gets tiring, and I think it's just about knowing when. It's a risk-reward situation, right? It's like anything in life. You've got to decide, is the risk worth the reward? If the reward is for me to walk away and get some personal space, take some time, figure out what I want to do next, ultimately the reward will be better for everybody later on. Now, the risk is everyone might not stick around. Some people might just feel like this relationship is over. And then you've got to ask yourself the risk versus reward. And I mean, the greats just do it. They just don't mind saying, if you can't meet me back here or somewhere else in two years, it's been good. Not every relationship. needs to last forever. Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the memories, guys. No, you're right. Don't get emotional. That won't do. Speaking of relationships, something I experience all the time when I'm just having a conversation with my partner and she sort of feels like, oh, you're not really talking to me very much today because you're going to record a podcast later and you're sort of saving up your talking. chi or whatever like so do you ever have that moment with your partner um where you feel like you're not giving her your best material or you know because sometimes chris and i will feel like you know what's the point of having a conversation if we aren't getting paid for it exactly my wife's different bro she's like why are you talking to me in your radio voice right now oh okay okay you can't bring that home you can't bring that home she's not interested she's not interested she's not interested like she's not

We've been married 23 years this year. You can't have a relationship like the one we have if it's remotely attached to this stuff. It's just none of it. Because what if I choose to do someone else? Well, that's that. I should have seen the signs, right? Keep the job, keep the wife. It's not about that. She is the opposite. have worked really hard in my life to like leave it at the door i know it's an obvious thing to say if it's been a great day and i had a great experience i'll tell her an anecdote or two or this or that but um the stuff we talk about is we have two teenage boys now you know we have so much to talk about wait how old are they how old are they how old are they 16 and 14 oh my god what the fuck we're just trying to like have as many experiences and collect as many awesome memories in the years that we have them living under our roof as possible because these two kids, like every kid, are going to take their identity out into the world and forge their own path and live their life and have a wonderful life on their terms. And long may that happen, and I cannot wait for them to have that. But at the same time, you know, I'm trying to... I'm trying to hold on because I love my team. Hold on. You've got a 16-year-old. So you've got two kids going to Crossroads. Zane Lowe is their papa. What? What the fuck? They do not go to Crossroads, bro, but that's hilarious. Okay, Harvard-Westlake. Zane, how much money are you spending on kids see ghost hoodies every month? What's the over-under on that? Oh, dude. Holy. You're like the third cup of coffee of the day, bro. You just kick in around 11, huh? Dane, I got a follow-up question to that that's serious. When you're a musical person, you grew up around it your whole life, you have a 16-year-old kid who's like, hey, can you buy me this band shirt? And when you're a kid, it was $10, and now the band merch is $270 on Grailed.

five hundred ninety eight dollars the next week yeah what do you do are you like bro i'm not gonna buy you this fucking seven hundred dollar hoodie what's the question what's that what's the serious what's the serious question the serious question is what's the what's the price cap on band merch or something like i really want my kid to have this thing but like come on bro i'm not gonna do the seven hundred dollar you know astro world pants that's a great question The really boring answer is they don't really fuck around with that stuff. One of them is really not remotely interested in expensive things at all. I mean, he's a thrift shopper and a skateboarder and he just wants to make skate videos and skate and make beats and go down to like literally second-hand stores. And I mean, this is a guy who ordered, I can't remember the poundage, but it was like pounds, like a lot, like four or maybe six. industrial-sized, really heavy-duty rubbish bags of second-hand T-shirts for $200. Just buying in bulk. Each T-shirt was probably coming in like 50 cents a T-shirt. Sure. And he wants to like... do resale and do all sorts of stuff, and sometimes he pulled a few out like he's wearing some kind of iHeart Country Music Awards 2011 t-shirt right now, which he thinks is the greatest t-shirt of all time. You're like, bro, you cannot wear iHeart merchandise at this household. Oh, I don't care. No, I'm all about it. He puts it on, and I'm taking a look at the list of artists who are performing at the iHeart Country Music Awards in 2011. I'm like, that is a solid lineup, iHeart. I was just looking at the iHeart radio lineup from this year and then 2011 my how the mighty have crumbled it was all these great people like avril lavigne's headlining this year i think yeah but this is what i'm saying though jason he's it's the country music awards i heart awards it's not the i heart awards it's the i heart country or i blame diplo yeah it's diplo's fault for sure yeah listen country music was just a glimmer in diplo's eye in 2011 um

But no, they don't really care. The oldest one is when it comes to band stuff, they did do it. We did buy it. Most of the merch these days you get at concerts, it falls apart after three washes anyway. So it's kind of a short-lived passion. And as far as clothes go, they save up their own shit now. They all have their like... chores and they're all making a little bit of money here and there and doing this shit so i like i like that yeah i can't i feel like 16 year olds these days really know how to kind of make it happen for them they in a way that we did we did not no we did not no and i'm way older than both of you i'm way i'm a generation or if not more older than you so back then i was just like you know how am i going to afford my u2 tour t-shirt you know so it's like It's a different world now. But, yeah, I mean, the merch thing, I'm all about the merch thing, man. If you can go and make exceptional merch and you can make a great margin on it, then do it because it's your brand. You're the artist. You should be allowed to go do it. And if it's really good, I'll pay for it. Okay. Well, yeah, just go to howlonggone.com. There's hats, shirts, tote bags, all kinds of stuff. What is the one piece of merch that you guys haven't done that you really want to do? Oh, good question. I think... I want to do... I want to... I think... Probably Rimova luggage. No, no, no. Oh, it's good. Luggage is good. Luggage is good. Maybe a driving shoe, Laura Piana, something like that. I want to do, we want to do dry fit, like actual hats for sporting, like Nike dry fit hats. And then I would like to do some performance socks as well. Very good. Just because I buy very expensive socks for tennis and running. And I just think there's something there. I just bought. So are you familiar with the brand Falk, F-A-L-K-E? No. The British sock maker? No. Okay, well, you know, I didn't expect you to be because this is a little dorky, but I ordered two pairs of running socks, two pairs of tennis socks. It ran me about $150. I got them, and I was like, these are fucking amazing. This is the nicest. This is one of the best things I've ever bought for myself.

And it's really got my wheels turning on the sock market. And that's really what it's about, Chris. It's about quality of goods. It is. It's about quality of goods. You know, you'd be willing to pay above your margin for anything that's made for pure quality. That's right. Quality. That's right. I'll pay. Like this podcast, right? I mean, I'll pay. You know, I will pay to go and see these two Muppets at the Troubadour because. quality product. Look, bro, Bert and Ernie at the Troubadour, we can add you to the list. The show is sold out. It's actually sold out, Zane. Maybe we can get you out to Helen Park. Oh, I fucking know it is. Oh, I know it is. I know it is. I know it is. I know what you guys are doing. Hard tickets. As we're closing things out, I guess, I mean, we're not super close. The landing gear's down, but we're still 10,[redacted address] to make it feel like a favor. Okay, let's wrap it up. Settle down now, Lo. Settle down. It's okay. We were very excited and pleased to hear that you wanted to do this podcast. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious to know more about how this came together on your end because, you know, truly an honor. Are you asking me why I decided to talk to you? Are you like, tell me I'm great? No, no, no. No, it's not tell me I'm great. It's just like we didn't even know you knew we existed. Yeah, it's more. And then our friend at Apple. Yeah, I have a really simple answer to this question. Let us know and we're like, what the fuck? I have a really simple answer to this question. And it refers to something that we spoke about at the beginning of the conversation. And I've really enjoyed it, by the way. I hope you have too. The bottom line is that nobody asks. So you ask, and I said yes. There you go. It is that simple. Nobody asks. I guess it's that simple. It's not entirely true. It's not entirely true. I knew that I would have a different conversation with you than I have with most people, which is like interview greatest hits. And it's like, okay, it's cool. It's great. I'm never going to feel, you know, I'm never going to do a half-assed job there and I'm never going to feel like, like I'm grateful anyone would take any interest in anything I'm remotely associated with. So I give my everything to every conversation if I agree to do it. But I just knew this would just be different. And it wasn't. But that's okay. And it was more of the same bullshit.

Well, where can we find you in L.A.? I don't want to blow up your spot, but are you at Erwan on Beverly? Are you at San Vicente Bungalows? Where are you going? What are some of your hot spots? Are you at Proof and Atwater? What are we talking about? I spent a little bit of time on La Brea. Okay, I'll see you at Sweetgreen. No problem. What are you doing? Are you over at the Arcteric store? Are you getting a burger on 99 American Rag for a month? You're getting close. You're getting close. I've got a couple of friends who I go and drop in on La Brea. I might buy a little bit of expensive French terry cotton. A little vibe. So he's at Union. He's at Union. We got it. He's at Union. No, I'm not at Union. No way, man. I got that back. What do I do, man? I don't know what I do, really. I spend a lot of time in my car. I like to drive. I spend a lot of time in my car. I go visit my friends. I go to some recording studios. I do all the cliched shit you'd think I would do being a music fan living in L.A. I like to move around. If I eat out or I eat out with friends or I eat out with artists, am I telling you? Because it fucking deserves the props. I eat at Matsuhisa at fucking places. It rips. You're at Giorgio Baldi in Santa Monica. Okay, I got it. I've only been twice to that, and I realize I wouldn't be able to get there on my own terms because the two people who took me were... Way above my background. Was it Jay-Z or was it Rihanna? You can just say one or two. It was neither, but both people have worked with both those people, so let's leave it at that. But yeah, I don't know, man. I like living in L.A. is the truth. I really do like living in this city. Having grown up in Auckland and loving my childhood there and my life there at that point and then moving to London, which was so different. London just couldn't have been more different to Auckland. And just falling in love with that in my 20s and 30s and just kind of pub culture and just making some of the best friends of my life and just kind of also sort of experiencing that British way of kind of...

handling of like of relating to people which is just so no bullshit like no it's just so no bullshit i mean the shit i used to get for just liking stuff why do you like stuff all the time can't you not like something you know so that was really awesome and and great and and but then moving to la in my 40s and with my family and starting this whole thing I love the city, you know, I really do. And I recognize it because there's a lot of similarities to me, to my childhood. And I like the fact that if we're halfway home and our kids are getting a taste of that, of that life of being near the ocean and being able to skate around and it's just an outdoor place. And I like that. And so, you know, the truth is as well, to ask you a question, you will always find me in a record store when I have free time. So take your pick. Shouts to Paradise, Super Vinyl, Miba, Record Parlor, Record Surplus. I'm always buying vinyl. That's my thing. So you've got a listening room with the house, I imagine. I'm actually doing it now. I'm in the process of doing it now. Oh, really? Yeah, it is. It's a passion, man. It has to be because that shit ain't cheap. Boy, I tell you what. Vinyl got the last laugh, right? Hey, Vinyl, you're dead. We'll see about that, huh? We'll see about that. We'll see what you're willing to pay for it later on. I mean, the fact that it's just... No, I think it has to do with the boom of merch and the fact that people really want to support artists and buying a $40 record that you're never going to open is a great way to support an artist. Well, you know, it's nice to hold something, man. And I know where I am when I'm having this conversation. I appreciate the opportunity that I have to be in the streaming era. I wanted it. I love it. And I've never listened to more music. at any other time than I am now. The level of discoverability and the access to artists and the fact that it feels like you just are so close to the artistic process in the streaming era is felt by us and felt by fans. You feel it. We all feel it. Everyone's kind of much closer. So I love that. But I love holding something in my hand. I love when I put the needle on the record. I love the fact that I'm committing to the experience and I'm not...

I can't just move around. It's a pain in the ass to move around. Oh, that's actually interesting. I've never thought about that. I'm in for at least 20 minutes. Even if I don't want to listen to side B, I'm in for at least 20 minutes. It slowed me down, and I think I was at risk of losing touch on why I fell in love with music in the first place, which was it was a really conscientious distraction, a soulful distraction for me. And I think that I was getting distracted from the distraction. So it's nice to just be able to kind of put a needle on and go, hey, whatever you do, this has been decided. Sure. Kick the feet up, light a little California sativa. soak into that eames chair zane's vinyl weighs a fucking ton jason who would have thought um yeah my vinyl weighs a ton baby you got a peanut butter wolf we appreciate damn no one ever thought i would make a peanut butter wolf reference uh but zane i loved it we really appreciate you joining us here on how long gone today what a treat uh yeah it really is to talk to one of the masters returning guest oh yeah yeah for sure when you got something to promote you just let us know um and and uh and apple apple music uh apple music you're on every day i mean this guy's inescapable um and if you you know if you're like me you have to make it sound so bad you want to go on you want to go on youtube and check out the the bbc radio one clips to bring you back to your youth like i do um those are all available some of my best work some of his best work some of his best work um but yeah let's uh let's uh hit georgio baldi soon i'll do my best to get us a table yeah thanks man well i mean you know it sounds like with your bag you can and jason great question Well done. Well done. God damn it. All right. Thank you, Zane. We appreciate you, bro. Yeah, congrats on everything. That was really fun, and I'm glad things are going so well for you guys. Take it easy. Peace. Bye.