082. - Chris & Jason

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... And podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Wow, thank you for joining us on your own podcast today, Jason. It is my pleasure. It feels good to be back. I haven't been disconnected for the last couple days. There's no worse fate than being disconnected for a couple days. That's scary to even hear. It's a hard thing to do nowadays, actually. But you weren't that disconnected, bitch. I mean, I wasn't that disconnected, but I was trying to be disconnected as possible. But, you know, it is a hard, it's like a mental challenge to really, like, it's one thing to go on holiday or on vacation, but it's another thing to really, you know, holistically do it. You know what I mean? In terms of your mental and your physical. Yes, but I just, I mean, I would be afraid the money was calling and I wasn't picking up the phone. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but that is a good concern, but there's a skill in setting up a situation to where you're able to really unwind and vacate while still not fumbling any bag. Even the greats like Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos are able to do it, Chris. Yeah, I know they are, Jason. But are they? You know what I mean? Wow. Really makes you think. Did you get deeper? Did you crack open that third eye in Sedona like we talked about? Of course I did, bro. What else is there to do in the down other than go to Whole Foods and see people not wearing masks and go to anywhere and see people not wearing masks? That's it. I mean, so tell me about hitting Sedona and seeing mask-free youth in the Whole Foods. Mask for youth. Well, it was weird because we walked in and there's a group of people, maybe three or four, real crusty people, outdoorsy types, but they also all look like they had plastic surgery done. So that's kind of the vibe in Sedona.

Sounds pretty cool overall. Sounds pretty cool. On paper, it does sound very cool, but they were all kind of like, there was like three or four of them in an aisle and they were all kind of blocking the aisle and talking to each other and having just like a fun, normal convo. But none of them were wearing a mask and I was looking around to see if there was an employee. working there that i could be like hey guys like what's up with this why are these people wow like so jason so you are a karen i wasn't i wasn't trying to bust them sounds like you were i wasn't trying to bust down but i was i was simply trying to to understand like what was like you know i i was in the car for like six or seven hours driving you know the whole foods was the first destination that we went to so you know i was still getting my sea legs back i you know working out the creaks in in the body and then i was floored with this and i just i didn't know how to process i didn't don't worry i didn't rat anyone out i did not tell but i was looking at them and they were looking at me and i was looking at them they're looking at me and it was kind of like they're they're looking at me in like a little bit of a smug way as if they're like i wish i wish somebody would i wish you would come tell me to take this you know put this mask on uh and then we were looking around and i would say like 50 of the people there were mask free and it was all there was no rhyme or reason it was all walks of life cool looking people shitty looking people rich poor fat skinny republican hippie you know it ran the gamut everyone and nobody was wearing a mask Sounds like the varied group of our listenership, actually, so that's nice to know. It was a diverse cast of men and women age 18 to 24. That is our exact demographic, I promise. So it was Coastal Elite snob Jason Stewart Big TJ versus super spreader Sedona. Yeah, and I asked the local cashier, like, what's up?

Why are all of these people not wearing a mask? And they said in Sedona or maybe in Arizona, similar to when you bring an emotional support animal on an airplane, you are allowed to just say, I have a medical condition and I can't wear a mask and that's all you need. Much like getting your medical marijuana card by going into any office and saying, I have pain. um or you know whatever going to florida to get oxycontin anyone can just walk around and say oh i i can't wear a mask for personal reasons and then nobody can do anything about it you don't have to hide so you so you just don't you you don't have to justify your your reasoning they can't ask you or you or they can ask you but you don't have to answer and there's nothing they can do Yeah, you don't have to show any medical official documents or proof that you have a medical condition that is allowing you to not be able to wear a mask. The same way you can say, I have pain or I have insomnia or stress or whatever. I get headaches. It's improvable information. Wow. Unprovable. So overall, after you coughed on those people, how was the trip? After I did some coughing, we checked into the Airbnb. It was very nice. Your money goes a long way in Arizona compared to California. It looked very spacious. It was spacious AF. There were multiple rooms to live in. I was thinking about some type of Tim Dillon situation where you just get a house in the desert for a month and you just build out your little content studio. I could really see myself doing that in the dome. I'm ready to build a content studio with you anytime, bro. That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. I would love to create a content studio with my co-host and friend, Them Jeans. It would be very cool. Me and Bae went half on a green screen. That's real love.

If we could bring, I mean, we could get some CDJs in there. You know what I mean? I'm sure we could dip into your storage space, get the CDJs, get the green screen, get a little hot plate. If I pull the CDJs out, Chris, you know that I can't put them back in. You know that, right? Look, you cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. And once I start downloading these Rihanna MP3s, I can't just put them back onto Spotify. You know that, Chris. I know, but I think that during this content creation moment we're in, where just the content is being produced at a breakneck pace, we might need an hour-long TJ green screen Rihanna-only set from Sedona. And it has to be on site. It has to be literally in the other room. We can't be like, oh, I can get the studio space. I can get an hour booked out later this week or whatever. It has to be able to happen at the drop of a hat any moment. There could be some late breaking news. A senator or a judge could pass away. There could be a new hamburger. There could be lots of different things going on in the world that we can't wait on. Think about if we had a Sedona content studio, how we could have... pulled up all these awful, obnoxious, lame tweets about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and roasted people live on Instagram. Really roast them while the body is still warm. Really give them a ravishing, you know? Exactly. If I would have seen the Ruth... conda tweet and had a content studio i would be famous right now maybe you know i might be rich you would be famous and i don't know if it would be famous in a good way but you would you you could definitely be famous if you if you had that The trend of saying something you want to say but you're lying about it because you act like your child said it is very cool. That's the only good reason to have a child. No, that is the end of fucking humanity is what it is. I showed a picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg to my two-year-old and she started crying. Shit like that. It's so amazing. They should take a page out of...

Twitter had no problem in the past just saying, literally the phrase, starting anything funny that you're about to say that you have written and scripted before by just saying the words, somebody said. That's all you have to do. Somebody said, Chris Brown looks like blah, blah, blah. Somebody said, and that is a setup that everyone is happy with. Nobody has to lie and say that you're a three-year-old. said this like really interesting hashtag and then you put a hashtag on a word that your kid said and tweeted out for nothing but some likes is is really really awful if you ask me you know i never feel like logging off i'm never really feeling that child protection services should take that fucking kid away nothing nothing good is going to happen with your life if your parent no is just using you for for like ease it's it's honestly the way that the way that twitter reacted to a hundred year old woman's death that they knew was coming was honestly shocking and i i understand the political implications of it and i understand that we have like romanticized this woman and made her like an etsy an etsy like yeah but like man it was like there was an article in the cut about how women were texting each other just the word fuck And it was like a trend piece. That's not real, guys. That doesn't matter. That is not important. The Supreme Court seat and all the stuff that goes with it is what is important. It's not important. It's unbelievable to me. People crying over a death of someone they don't know is actually shocking to me. In the Supreme Court. I mean, obviously, she has done a lot of... cool things over the years you know amazing she's overturned some great stuff but literally the world was was um was ruth pilled um yes that we were by that documentary i mean this woman has literally don't i would not want to take away from her accomplishments she truly has changed women's rights like she's on the front lines but it's like she slapped but you we you you people

turned her into a fucking etsy t-shirt and like a bad book and a catchphrase and now you're gonna cry when some crying when someone you don't know dies is insane and i can't deal with it anymore i can't deal with it like you people are crying about a celebrity or a politician they've never met that is fucking insane that is insane and i might not cry if a family member died you know what i mean like we know crazy we know we know but i you know i guess you know whenever whenever somebody in that position passes away they're kind of like one those are those benchmark moments of like she was one of the last few good ones who is in a position of power but also you know like she's she hasn't really had any power in a while like the way the world works the way the government works the you know everything that's been put in place in the last whatever 10 years it's just in my opinion you know it's already been done it's it's just I mean, I don't know. Obviously, people are going to react the way they want to react to things, but the insanity in which people respond to things like death of people they don't know seems truly, truly unhinged to me. Like, unhinged. It could be someone that truly touched my life, but I don't know them, so I can only feel so much about their passing. Maybe I'm emotionally dead, but it seems like it is a... an extreme overreaction to something that doesn't actually affect you in any way at all. Yeah, and you have to draw the line of what things in the world that are happening that you're able to turn into your own personal content, where that line is drawn. I don't know, how many years ago was it where people really started making a big deal about posting? these like melodramatic things about celebrities dying whom whom they have never met simply because like they made they were in a freaking movie that i liked a lot and like yeah today today you know my heart hangs heavy today because

Today at How Long Gone Headquarters, we're raising the flags to half-mast over the passing of character actor from a 1998 movie that made me chuckle once. It's fucking crazy. This goes for any and all levels of success. It doesn't matter what the field is. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter if it's politics, if it's music, if it's movies. Obviously, to me, a musician would probably affect me the most. Morrissey, of course, has a tarnished reputation now. But when Morrissey dies, I've listened to his music since I was 13 years old. I have it tattooed. I'm not going to care. It's fine. That's the cycle of life. People die. That's just what happens. I'm not going to cry about this guy who I've never met before, no matter how much he affected me positively in my life. Right. And I think dealing with death, dealing with life, those things are, in my opinion, those are some personal and private moments. And as soon as you commoditize them online by trying to make up words that your child said, make up a hashtag that your child said, or hire a graphic designer to make a post of you and posing next to this person that died and writing a 10-page article about how they touched your life. It's all awful. I think the way that we all deal with death and the way we look at death as an opportunistic moment in your life versus a time to just pay your respects to them karmically and universally is fucked up. Whenever you see a celebrity's name, RIP whatever on Twitter as a trending thing, everyone's first... You're like, okay, is this person dead or do they get canceled? And then everyone has the same Denzel memes about, like, you know, somebody better not tell me that this actor that was on fucking, that was on, like, Frasier 18 years ago. I really love that show. I really love that show, Suits, bro. I can't believe this guy died. It's crazy. Do not tell me, you know, my face when I found out that the guy from Bones Season 3 isn't dead.

And then you're like, yes, that was awesome. I'm so glad they didn't die. But I also think that I personally and also all humans have always had a fascination with disaster and tragedy. Like whenever there was an earthquake in L.A. a couple days ago or there's a volcano or whatever, all these natural disasters that happen or these tragedies that happen, 9-11, we'll always have a fascination with them because it's interesting to see crazy. destruction or pain or like real real emotions because we aren't really experiencing real real emotions anymore and we have to kind of fabricate them into around celebrity versus i love look i love people that we love i love posting an rip or maybe even a great new york times obituary because they're so well written maybe maybe maybe even a photo on a tumblr you know what i mean i'm not above that i'm definitely not above that but crying is where I draw the fucking line. Celebrating someone's life because you love their work is the proper way, in my opinion, to process that kind of emotion when it's someone you have no personal connection to. Yeah. Sit around with your friends who also shared your love with this person. Commiserate and commemorate about the good times and the moments that you had, but do not make it about yourself and do not make it... a reason or an excuse or an opportunity to have this draft. You know, I bet you there's people who drafted that, you know, Ruth Conda type of tweets and they just had it waiting in the hopper waiting for her to die so they can fire it off. well i mean that's literally how the obituary in the new york times work you know they have them they have them cocked and out now regular people have them have have the tweet in the drafts and it's just like ready to fly you know what i mean so like yeah like you said when when the guy from season three of bones dies we'll get we'll get these tweets off and you and i can have a candlelight vigil we're going to watch season three of bones together while we have you know

while we enjoy a nice taco bowl. What sounds better than that? Motherfucking Bones would have wanted it that way, bitch. Exactly. That's what Bones would want, and that's what I want to give Bones in return. That being said, R.I.P., fam. R.I.P. to Ruth. I feel like I got a really funny tweet off about the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Maybe I'm part of the problem. You are not part of the problem. You are part of a problem, but not the, but always a. And also, we need to normalize using humor as a healthy way to deal with death. I was actually, I mean, I just think that someone's, I just don't know. I don't know who it's serving. That's all. I don't know if it's virtue signaling or if it's self-serving or if it's wanting to be a part of something. Maybe it's not nefarious at all. Maybe it's from a pure place. I just think it's corny. That's all I can say about it. What pure shit isn't corny? I'm sure people at Mosaic Church, their intentions are coming from a pure place. Couldn't be cornier. Couldn't be cornier. Cornier than a damn chicas. i had a big wow shout out to chicas by the way i had a bag yesterday and shout out shout out to a listener who dm'd me a cold dm said letting me know that there is a a supermarket somewhere in like east la i forgot what city but they he said that they have the six pound industrial size chicas bag on deck just to let you know chris well i think we're gonna take a little hld field trip yeah so when we have you know our next Whenever we have a wake for the next rapper that dies and we will need six pounds of chica, I will release that and I'll do a full review of the six pounder. That would be fun because I did find the chica blue corn at the Whole Foods in Burbank. I haven't cracked them yet. I'm saving them like a special bag. Chica Azul. So you have a bag of chicas sitting in the telly and you're able to use restraint?

Let me tell you right now, Jason, I keep two chicas on decking tin at all times. Damn, you'd think you'd be even fatter than you are, but I guess that's how you're working hard. I am working hard. Speaking of working hard, I don't know if you saw on my Instagram stories that I secured the fucking bag this week. Do you mean you went to do Barry's boot camp in a parking lot at a mall? No. I mean, Certified Loverboy in-store soon merch is in my possession, baby. Oh, a great day. I got the hoodie. I got both colors of the socks. I even got the white hat with the kiss on it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so you got both of the play for Comme des Garcons socks. That's awesome. That's like an iconic image. First of all, Jason, for you to act like Comme des Garcons invented the heart is a little short-sighted, but I'll let you get your little joke out. I'm not saying they invented the heart, but if you do an A-B comparison of the sock, it's a white or black sock, almost indistinguishable from each other. There is a red heart in the sock and then the logo inside of it. It's a Nike swoosh switched out for a cute little set of eyeballs. Yeah, but a Nike swoosh is the most iconic symbol of American culture, and eyeballs are just eyeballs. So you tell me. Just because it's iconic doesn't mean that it's not thievery. but you know continue thievery thievery you know drake is not stealing as much as you know maybe a travis scott or something like that but this shit is coming out bro we got i mean this shit ain't coming out for another month so it's not so walk me through what those dms were like once you posted you know first of all the boy gave you permission to post it before i'm assuming that or how does the nda paperwork I mean, I don't think we need to worry about that. I think you'll see some of these other little rappers doing their posts later, but I think it's more important to get these influencers out ahead of it. You know what I mean? So who are some of the other Drakefluencers that were blessed with a Nike sock? I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure there are guys that are getting bigger packages than me, but I really needed the certified Loverboy. Chris Loverboy Black is what I'm calling it now, hoodie.

And are you going to wear any of this merchandise for our upcoming photo shoot? I mean, I could wear a whole fit. You know what I'm saying? I could wear a whole Drake Certified Loverboy in-store soon fit, but I just don't know. You could wear a lot of things, Chris. I'm asking, will you? Probably not, but I will. If you rock up on me at the tennis court with the white socks and the white hat, that's a pretty fire fit. I'm not mad at that, really. And it would look good at the Barry's. I did do Barry's Beverly Center outdoor. And I got to say, as usual, Barry's fucking came through, bro. They got mirrors up. They put a floor down. The silent disco headphones stay on. They don't fall off. Yeah, speaking of Drake, the only other person who would put a mirror in a parking garage, Barry's is coming through. So I actually wanted to ask you about that. So Barry's Boot Camp, they took all of their equipment, all of their decor, their statement wall, their statement mirrors, their sound system, et cetera, moved it into the Beverly Center parking structure and then just did business as usual there. Is that correct? Yeah, I mean, for the most part. I think it's as far as like I've done an outdoor legree and I've done this and they're both pretty good, to be honest. It's just like a limited, you know, it's a smaller group of people. But the workout was with my favorite L.A. trainer, Kyle K., who did a full ballroom. You know the ballroom thing where they fall to the ground? Oh, I do. Don't tell me that Kyle is appropriating Vogue and culture as well. Kyle did that shit in the middle of Barry's and I hit a PR, bro. That got me turnt the fuck up. That shit, that is impressive. That motherfucker's got a body on him and he did that? That's going to get Chris Jacks. You know what I mean? That's going to get me putting up a little more weight, Jason. Wow, this is coming as a surprise to me because of all the... 2020 brought us a lot of surprises, but... but Chris coming alive in the nighttime after he witnesses Kyle K do a ballroom-style Vogue collapse and then rebirth. What is that move called? I don't know what it's called. I actually don't know what it's called, but I've always... I'm just saying I didn't peg you for a ballroom cat, that's all. I mean, it's one of the most impressive things in the world. I fucking love it. I'm really into it. You wasn't with me with Venus X DJ set at Ghetto Gothic, bro. What's up?

I was not there, but I was at Barry's District for Kyle K. to do it. Yeah, that is Chris's ghetto gothic. Yeah, I'm good. But overall, it was a pretty good experience, to be honest. My ankle's still a little touched up on the tready, but other than that, it was good. Speaking of overall, I noticed that you weren't wearing a shirt that covered over all of your arms. A lot of people might call it a tank top, and that is a style of shirt that I've actually caught some heat for wearing, actually, for you specifically. And I wanted to ask... you know where did it go wrong for you where did you decide to kind of give in and uh sacrifice your your personal appearance for fitness well i didn't look bro um the deal is the deal is look bro the deal is everything everything good Look, I'm a District Vision athlete. I wear the products as a sponsored athlete. I like to support the brand. Yesterday, it was an off. It was a laundry day for some of my other clothing. I actually run in that fit normally. It's the District Vision TomTom Half Tight. So you're saying you would do it on top. So you're saying you would only wear District Vision on laundry day. Interesting. I actually like those guys. No, I wear District Vision every day, but I only have a long-sleeved shirt, which would have been a little too warm, and then this... sleeveless shirt okay so will you keep coming for sleeveless tj now that you are a member of yes yes because you cut farmer hive you you cut yours like you're like a fucking like you're going to gold's gym but you your arms look like twigs that's the difference You cut yours all the way down to the waist. You know what I'm saying? I don't Travis Barker my shit. You look like Travis Barker in a DRI shirt. That's what you look like. You think you're Travis Barker. Some ladies are into that look, all right, Chris? But also, if my arms, my defined arms, are twig-like, what does that make yours, Chris? Is that more like a...

That's a compliment, dumbass. What do you mean? It didn't sound like a compliment. All I'm saying is your... So then it is a compliment to say that your arms are even more twig-like, maybe even just like a sproutling. Your arms could be sproutling, I guess. Okay, so we do have a guest today. Jason's making up words now, so we got to keep on. I think he did a little brain damage in Sedona after hanging out with the mask-free youth. Today is farmer's market day. I got sprouts in the brain. Edmund's cooking up. I'm sorry about that. I understand. I understand. At How Long Gone, sometimes we like to reach into our bag of experts because some other podcast book guests, we mostly call friends, colleagues, coworkers, people that are well-known and defined in their fields. And this last week, if you've been logged onto the internet, which I know you all have because there's nothing else to do. You've probably seen rapper Kanye West going on and on and on about the unfair contracts of the music business. He's up in arms. He's saying he's getting killed. He's saying we have to figure out a new way to do this, etc. I was talking to my attorney, Mike McCoy. who is a New York-based music attorney. He worked on Cartel with me, and that's how we know each other. He's not going to disclose who his clients are, but I can say they're very big. His firm is one of the bigger law firms in the business. Will he let me guess one at least? Probably not. Jason has met Mike before, actually. We had dinner with him and his wife at his house before Jason went and did a legendary DJ set at Holy Mountain, which was a blessed night in general. It was. Yeah, the only way to start off DJing New York's premier gay club is to drink natural wine on the rooftop of an attorney's home. That's called High Low. That's our brand. And also, shout out to Mike's wife. Mike's wife, Caitlin, a big listener of this podcast and a wonderful, brilliant, intelligent woman. Mike has been sequestered at his home in the Dominican Republic since the pandemic started. Are you serious?

Yes, yes. So we're going to call Mike. He's coming straight live from the Dominican Republic. He has taken time out of his busy schedule to look into these contracts and also what this means for the future of the music business. 360 deals, no touring revenue, streaming services. So we're going to give you basically a master class. We're giving you free legal advice at how long gone. That's like, you tell me who else is giving you free legal advice, and I'll go fucking subscribe to their shitty podcast. Yeah, this is Celino in black coming at you. live and and this is all pro bono my friend this is normally what three four hundred dollars an hour easy oh this is probably more you know but yeah at least i mean we're looking at we're looking at bills bro these motherfuckers charge you for you know a 10 minute phone call this ain't a game like you text a lawyer you're getting a bill um you're welcome so yeah we're you know you're welcome that's really what it comes down to so let's give let's let's go direct to the dominican republic hardwire and get some legal advice for all of you aspiring musicians This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world... writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept quote unquote donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early, and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Quince.

Jason, the temps are warming up. It's getting hot out there. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I need pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, and that are just easy but still put together. I don't want to look like a slob. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high-quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Breathable linen and soft organic cottons. Well-made basics but without the luxury markups. That rare balance where everything feels elevated. but still effortless. Yeah, Chris, linen season is here. I wore a linen blazer to dinner a few nights ago in the warm California sun. But, you know, you got that Italy trip coming up this summer and quality European linen pants and shirts. Upgrade that look starting at just $34. You know, if you get a nice linen suit, a little t-shirt underneath it, some chill shoes, you're looking good, but you're staying cool. The inside of your special areas are nice and dry as you turn up with your besties. So elevate that summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash how long for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns, even on a nice holiday now available in Canada. That is Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash how long. That'll get you free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince punto com slash how long. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian stateside with Kai and Carter. This is covering a lot of our bases, Jason. It's trying to slow down. the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen.

Yeah, you're sequestered in the Dominican Republic right now, correct? That is correct, yes. And you've been there since the beginning. You guys got out quick. We got out February 24th. The day the market dropped, I was like, this is going to be serious. The market's starting to think about this and price this in. Let's get the hell out of here. So we left that day. And what's the vibe in the Dominican Republic? Totally different? I think there's something like 110,000 cases. like maybe a thousand deaths uh there are there's we had a quarantine for a while there's no more quarantine there's not a quarantine but there is a uh we have to you know there's there's a curfew during the week of 5 p.m 5 p.m the sun's still up no wait during the week 7 5 p.m during the weekend sorry i remember that now i don't yeah it sucks but i it doesn't matter to me i live in a gated community Plus, where am I going to go? Where am I going to go? Yeah. You miss going to restaurants? Whatever. It's fine. So we're in the gated community. We're in the Dominican. And are you able to come back to America whenever you want or are you stuck there? I can come back whenever I want. I've overstayed my tourist visa by six months. Have you come back at all or have you not left? No, I haven't left. I see no reason to come back. So is there a chance that you just move there and live there forever? Yes. Wow. Really? Wow. So, Mike, let me know. If the apartment in New York is available, I am also available. So you keep me posted. I'll let you guys keep some stuff there. You know what I mean? Like furniture-wise, it's fine. But we can work out a deal. Yeah, we can work out a deal. Good to know. The only issue is Alex is in ninth grade now and her school is in New York. And I wouldn't want to move her out of. her high school experience you know so yeah i mean is she so yeah we've talked to a lot of parents on the podcast how has it been i mean she's a little older so it's probably a little easier but is she like feeling a little weird with no friends around like not socializing at all yeah the thing is there are friends around she's online to meet her friends but we're in a bit of a bubble and there's some there's some people here who

don't believe that covid is a thing there's a little bit right wing and uh they probably look down upon us because we've created our own little bubble and we haven't let alex leave yeah much but alex is fine with it i mean it's you know she's learning to surf she's ride your bike she's you know she's very grateful that we have the place and it's you know what's what's not like sure sure sure yeah even when you're 13 you can recognize this is pretty sick you know what i mean it's not She gets it. She totally gets it. She's been really cool and chill about everything. Is she a TikTok user? Yeah, she is a TikTok user. She jumped on to do some anti-Trump stuff. Who didn't? Exactly. Welcome to the club. Right. We've been brainwashing her from the beginning to be a coastal elite left-wing psychopath. Yeah, Uncle Chris has probably been helping out with that as well. Absolutely. I think everybody in your life solidifies that, but I do think that we love to ask also parents. I mean, I think it's interesting for you because you're in the music business, but what's she listening to? What is her music taste as they develop? Oh, that's interesting. Thought before I had a kid that I was going to be the guy that played all the plastic songs to my kid. You're going to learn the Beatles. You're going to learn the Stones. You're going to learn all the, you know, the beginning. All the third eye blind, all the colored crows. Third Eye Blind, Counting Crows, all the classics. Right. I mean, we work towards that stuff. That's a little advanced. We have to level up to that. We go from Beatles, Rolling Stones to Counting Crows. It's a process. That's a jump right there. That's a jump. I don't know if we can handle it. But I didn't want to impose my taste on her at all. So I think her favorite band is the Gorillaz right now. That's a really interesting choice. I know, it's cool, because she likes to draw, and she does a lot of anime, so the visual part of it drew her in, and the music's pretty cool. But I haven't really pushed her on music at all, and she really, unfortunately, moves towards EDM, which... Oh, yeah. That's Jason's specialty. I'm sure he could offer some... It's cool that your child ended up being smarter than most people. So if she needs any EDM advice, you know...

Uncle Jason is also available to send mixes and other important artifacts. Yeah, and also, you know, you know more than anyone as a member of the music industry that EDM artists, you know how many people you split that money with, baby? Motherfucking zero. Exactly. So, you know, fiscally speaking, she's a smart gal off the jump. Yes, that's true. That's true. DJ has no production. No production. Pretty brilliant. You know, you and I talked a little bit this week about about the this this Kanye West situation. So so Kanye is treating tweeting out his contract and talking about how unfair it is. And, you know, how long gone we like to offer expertise. We're basically offering people free legal advice right now. So, you know, this is invaluable, really. But I think that. For us, Jason and I both have been members of the music business at different times in our lives. I think a lot of listeners of ours are involved in it or at least interested in it. So I just thought it'd be fun to get you, an expert, to kind of break down what he's saying at layman's terms and kind of explain to us what it means. Is he right? Is he wrong? Just an insider look at it. So let's start from the top. And also, how can we get our masters back from Spotify for this podcast? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. We'll end with that. We'll end with that. But let's start with Kanye West and Universal Music Group. Well, send me your contract and I'll take a look. Okay, sure, sure, for sure. Fuck. I should have sent a contract. I knew we should have done a contract. I told you, bro. This is already invaluable. You're good. You're good. Perfect. Perfect. So is Kanye right? Is Kanye wrong? What is your take? Overall? I mean, his main message, let's just agree, because there was some question. At first, I wasn't sure what his message was. It was unclear. That's a common thing with him. But if distilling it down, his message is artists should own their masters, then I think he's absolutely right. That's a very artist friendly way of looking at things. And, you know, I looked through the contracts and he by no means has had a.

from what I can see, a bad experience. But there's plenty of money. He owns his last four records. They're licensed. But the big ones are still owned by Universal, from what I can see. His last four records do suck ass. Exactly. Yeah, that's the whole thing. But Mike, explain to people what license means. So that means that, just to be clear, that means that he owns the music. that he made then he licenses it for for a period of time to a record label to sell and distribute that's right well i'll start by saying you know there's there's the value to a record label has traditionally traditionally been owning the copyright to a master reporter like that's where they make their money um and generally speaking new artists sign deals that are for life of copyright meaning forever Yeah. You know, for the most part, although there's a reversion in the US at 35 years, but I don't want to go down that. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a family podcast, Mike. Come on. Thanks for getting me back on track, man. So I think that, yeah, so basically that's the value. So labels want to own these masters and they want to exploit, which is their term, the masters in perpetuity. An artist owning their masters means that they're going to make more money from the master recordings, right? So what a license means is, you know, Chris Black and Jason, you guys do your acoustic duo album and you finish it. And you're like, oh, we're going to go to, you know, Sony. We're going to license it to you. We'll let you put it out and distribute it for five years and pay us a royalty or, you know, we'll split the net profits. And then we get a reversion of the rights. and we own it. We retain ownership. Yeah. That's what he's talking about. So is that going to, I mean, I feel like from what I hear from, from my friends, that's becoming the license structure is becoming more popular. Yes. Um, I'm seeing a lot more of those deals. And are those, are those increasing, are those so much more beneficial to the artists, but is the, is the label getting fucked or is the label just getting less money than they were before?

They're getting less money, but they're probably throwing less resources at something. Think about it. You're flipping the profit around completely. You're going from, generally speaking, say an artist is making a 20-point royalty, which is high on a royalty side, but then you flip it around and you license it, and maybe you license it for a distribution fee of 2025. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the label's making less money, and as a result, the artist is potentially getting less services from the label. I see. Less risk, less reward. Yeah, right. But I would wager to say that that's a symptom of society because now the artist has their own marketing. They don't need the label as much as they used to. Correct. But the artist has to be a self-starter, but any artist to be successful has to be a hustler. They have to work hard. At this point, you can't just turn the record and tour and expect this to all work out for you. No, you've got to promote, you've got to do the social media thing, and you've got to be constantly working. Even if you're really hot, you still have to do that. You do have to be hot. And that fucking sucks. That does suck. Being hot and forced to work is the most unfair thing we have going on right now. So Kanye wants to buy his old masters back so he can have ownership of his music forever instead of Universal. And he's saying that they won't talk to him or give him a number because they are afraid that he can actually afford that number. Where normally... it would be such a crazy amount of money to do that where nobody in their right mind would or could pay that much money. What do you think Kanye's masters are going for on the market? Oh, good Lord. I'm not counting Yeezus or anything after Yeezus. Only the good shit, Mike. Only the good shit. I did look at his discography before we got on the phone, and I did see that his sales really dropped from Pablo on. These records that he made, one through six, are classic records. It's hard to really say. How do you put a dollar amount on how much money it could make because the records have already been sold?

You know, millions and millions and millions have already been made off of them. But, you know, who knows what could happen? Yeah. How do you gauge? How do you gauge? Is it just I mean, obviously, this is based on some kind of numerical figure and calculation. Or are they just like, fuck you, we want X amount of dollars. Is it a little bit of both? Well, if they're coming to the table, let's assume they're talking to him about it. Yeah, I don't think they have to. um right unless unless for some reason they really want an 11th kanye record then you know he can sort of hold that as leverage um and say give me back the masters for one through six but i don't i'm not sure that they want that right because they they absolutely do not have to sell him back his masters it's like selling somebody a car and then they're like you know what i want this car back and you're like i don't have to sell you the car back it's it's mine now So he's basically stomping his feet because they don't have to respond. And they're choosing not to. And that's upsetting him because he thinks he can afford it. They don't. But, I mean, he does have this platform of Twitter followers. And that's pretty powerful, I think. It's very powerful. And what he's saying, and something you and I have discussed, too, is kind of like... the move towards these kinds of contracts becoming a little more palatable for a regular person. You know, like when we work together, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe I shouldn't admit this. I didn't look at shit. I was like, Mike does this. I don't fucking, I don't know. I can't read this shit. This is Mike went to college. Mike's been doing this for years. Mike reads the contract. He tells me if it's good or bad and what we need to do to get this done. You know, and I think that that's how I've always looked at legal stuff. I'm like, there's guys that do I look at everything like that. There's people who do this professionally. I'm going to lean on them and pay them for their services because I chose to do what I do. You know, so it's like, would that would that if let's say we make let's say that the music business in particular makes a move towards this more like kind of like plain language. Does that affect your job at all? Does that matter? Or is it the same shit? Oh, man, that's funny.

Wow, I'm getting bummed out now. I don't know. We still need to make deals. We need to think about, you know, where the money comes from. And there's still always going to be, even though there's a transparency, everything, I mean, the world is becoming more transparent and all for, you know, it's a net positive, I think. And the music business is moving that way too. But I still think there's going to be people that are going to take advantage of artists. It's always been the case. So that's why I have a job is I want to make sure it doesn't happen. uh i mean do you find do you find that i mean i imagine it's a spectrum but are some clients like really involved and want to read this stuff and try to understand it and are others just like me who are like i don't know bro this is your thing it's uh it's a little it's a it's a continuum you know sure sure sure uh some some i love it when artists really want to know because then I get to do my job and explain it. And I think being able to explain these things in plain English is important. But, you know, God forbid someone comes back to me that I didn't explain it to and say, what the hell did I sign? So I prefer somebody to be interested. Yeah. I mean, I'm interested in two things. I'm interested in how much money I'm getting and when I'm getting it. That's, that's the two things that contracts always meant to me. But I do think that this stuff gets really complicated when you're talking about ownership and timelines and all of that stuff, because I think that like. I think musicians, and this is something we want to talk about as well, is like, you know, I think musicians that that kind of the money from selling records, at least for most of my contemporaries, was never you basically you care about in advance and you care about touring and you care about merch. Those are the three things that you can actually that you actually see the most money from. Is that has that changed or is that still the same deal? And now that digital streaming services are involved. I mean, I have artists that make royalties. you know amazing you know what i mean yeah and streaming has uh it seems like it's um kind of gotten the music business back to at least a place where it's just not yeah that's the other thing with streaming particularly i feel like it got such a bad rap for so long but i think it i kind of think it saved the music business in a lot of ways like it kind of propped it up while while you know touring became a bigger and bigger and bigger entity but like

I know unsigned artists making $50,000 a month from streaming, and I feel like that's a real living. That's a serious living. You know what I mean? And these are guys people haven't heard of. You know what I mean? So it's like, what is the perfect solution? Do you just have to do it all, basically? You know what I mean? Well, let me go back. So I guess the question is, is it still important to tour, promote, et cetera? Yeah. I mean, obviously. you know, the problem is an artist gets somewhere and starts making money. They want to, they want to continue, you know? Um, so they always want to be relevant and they always want to be making music and having, you know, building more, more fans and followers. But I mean, that's why the music business is changing. Really. I think it's because these guys were making, you know, making $50,000 a month on streaming. So they have leverage. So a label comes in and it's like, you know, It's like in the old days, Chris, when you remember when they were chasing artists, unsigned artists that were radio, it's the same thing, but Spotify doing that. Well, they want a piece of it. And you know, the band's like, okay, you want a piece of it. Give me a distribution deal at an 80, 20 split in my favor. And we're okay. And then label is doing that, you know, but the artist had to get himself there. The artist had to make the music. Like, you know, the artist had to hustle. And I mean, If you're making $50,000 a month on Spotify, what's your incentive to tour, really? That's my whole thing. That's what's changing it so much. Obviously, touring and merch is a huge income stream at a certain point, but at another point, it's kind of like you're breaking even. So it's like if I'm breaking even, and obviously touring is a fucking nightmare, so I'm breaking even, and I'm making all this money on streaming, what's the point? You know what I mean? Unless you understand the importance of a touring business and building that up for the future. But I don't, I mean... I don't know why, but, but it also, to me, it's like, well then what, what our label, why would I, so if I, if Jason and I are making $50,000 a month in streaming for our acoustic album, why, why would we sign to a record label except for the fact that we're Gen Xers who want to say we're on a major label? What is the, what is the benefit for us? Well, I do think they still have a, the ability to break something in radio. You know, their promo departments are very important. Like you're unlikely to get on the radio. It's not impossible.

with your acoustic album if you're just streaming on spotify and that's still an important way to drive sales you know see and that's something i think that our fucking gen x gen z listeners need to know is that radio regular ass terrestrial radio is still moving a lot of records yes it is and it actually it actually uh does move prompt some streaming numbers it pushes streaming numbers higher so it's all so it's still that that game still matters which i think most people would not realize honestly i think most people think that's like obsolete i think in certain genres it matters yes if you want to be a pop star you got to be you got to be going to radio does this country work the same way Do I know nothing about the country music business? Wow, that's fucked up. That's fucked up, Mike. I believe your firm has a national office. You're from the South. I mean, this is a blind spot. No, I'm embarrassed to say. Actually, I'm proud of it, to be honest with you. You know what? Actually, I don't care at all. I don't give a fuck. But I mean, I think that kind of stuff. But I mean, so radio is still a conversation that you're having all the time. It's not. sort of my world but it's an important part when we're when you're signing into a label it's a it's an important service that's needed even if you're doing one of those doing one of those uh distribution deals probably the the reason to get into it is because you want that radio service you know the promo and that's something you can pay for independently but it doesn't really hit the same yeah it's weird because how do you measure that you know say you pay some guy and look radio promo is not my thing but it's just like yeah how do you get value you're like okay you pay some guy he says yeah i called all these radio so you give him like i don't know 50 grand he's like yeah i called everyone they didn't like it yeah yeah i mean no i mean it's similar it sounds like pr yeah it does that's what i was gonna say it's like look there's no guarantees with that stuff like that it's very similar to press and communications it's like we have these relationships and i know these people and they're gonna but they're still gonna you know defer to their own tastes you know what i mean like that's just what

the business is about. But I mean, I think that then when a label comes in, they're swinging a little more weight around because of years and years and years of doing business together and relationships and who knows what else, you know? Right. I think that's, that's exactly the case. So there's still value to signing to a major, but I've actually seen the deals change. Like back to Kanye's deal, his original deal was seven records. I'm seeing major label deals down to, you know, commonly three or four records. Because they used to want to tie you up for as long as they could. Absolutely. It was always six or seven records. Let's think about that. I can't think of anybody who's put out six or seven good records. No. Not even the Stones. Not even the Stones. It's actually crazy to think about what is the point of that beyond just wanting to own something because you feel like it's worth it at the time. Even if the music sucks? it still makes money. The same way a contract for a baseball player or a football player, they want to sign you for 12 years and you know that you're going to have two good years. One of those is going to be injured. You're going to suck for seven of those years. It doesn't matter because you're just making money. And winning and success and being good at something has been replaced by... making money as the value of success now. Well, in both situations you mentioned, even the sports analogy and records, both of those, I know that labels can, and I'm pretty sure sports teams can. They can drop the player or the artist at any time. It's always in their favor. Absolutely, always. But they've got the money. I've had artists come to me and say, I'll sign anything. just for i'm so hungry and i'm so sick of sleeping in my car i will sign anything i mean that's and that's where that's the predatory 360 deals where they get they get people locked in it's horrible i mean that's when i have to send a letter saying i advise you not to sign this or i don't pay the client on i'm not you know i just because it's going to end in tears we we talked about so you know mike and i we worked together on on cartel um

we did a very early 360 deal because this is like 2005, 2006. And I think that the labels were in such a rush to get those done because it seemed like a good idea that Mike was able to beat it up pretty well for us. And it was kind of like, I mean, Mike, tell me if I'm wrong, but it kind of seemed like some free money at the time. Well, that's right. Because it was... All knew. No one had really thought it through. And then in order to get the rights, the labels at the time or the label that cartel was on was paying advances against 360 money. We get a percentage of touring, percentage of endorsements, et cetera. But they let us base the percentage on net, undefined net. So essentially they would never see any money. So yeah, yeah, exactly. Free money. It was just, it was just like, I remember you and I talked, they're like, all right. So once they start, the numbers were just like, okay. So once they start selling out 10,000 cap venue, it was some, I'm like, guys, this ain't ever going to happen. Like this ain't going to happen. So that means we're never going to pay this money back. That's how I understood it. But I think those deals now, I mean, the merge thing is, is the merge conversation, something that's really prevalent now for you. And maybe it wasn't 10 years ago. Well, yeah, they, they really do want a share of merge. And the problem with that is, as you know, that's a, That's how a lot of artists with touring artists survive, you know, because touring is so expensive. They're going to survive on selling merch. So, well, the idea there would be to exclude the first X amount of money in merch sales until there's a merch deal or something. But still, it seems like the margins are so low there that it does kind of cut it into bone when you've got to pay 7.5%, 5% of the gross to a third party. But I just think the explosion of the merch thing and like the artists, I mean, the bravado deals, you know what I mean? All of that stuff that's happening and like the licensing of the of the name and image. It's everything I see in my world, too. It's like I don't think I've ever been this big. You know, I just don't like, you know, Noah, the brand Noah is doing, you know, these collaborations, the B-52s and the Cure and like all of these bands. And that's all via that's all via, you know, bravado.

That's amazing. Do you think Band in the Bubble would fly these days? Oh, Mike. You know, it's a great question. I don't think Band in the Bubble flew in its own day. So I don't know if it would fly these days. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. If we've progressed and now there's not as much of a stigma tied to endorsements and promotion, do you think that one would actually still go? Would go actually at all? Honestly, maybe. Nobody's touching Dr. Pepper still, so I don't know. We've got to go for a more organic, higher-end soda, but that can work. I think that the 10th anniversary of the bubble or something was a couple years ago, and somebody wrote the story about it, a positive story about it, kind of. Looking back on that, that was completely insane as far as the mechanical. the people involved in it. You know what I mean? But also like, I think from a like social media standpoint and what it was, it very much was ahead of its time as far as like the constant dreaming and that whole thing is very much in tune with what's going on today. Okay. I mean, yeah, I think they would do it today and maybe they would fix some of the things that didn't work and it might, it might fly. Look, if you take Kentucky Fried Chicken out of the equation, it could work. Forgot about that. That's where I draw the line, is fast food. But maybe I don't, I mean, have you been following the Travis Scott McDonald's merch thing? I've seen headlines here and there. How are people, what's the general overall sort of feeling? It's absolutely insane, printing money. Wow. We tried to eat one a couple weeks ago when it first came out, and McDonald's said that we sold out of patties because of it. Jesus. God bless him. Good for him. Good for him, bad for all of the world, though. I know. Yes, yes, yes. That's not the T-shirts. That's literally a hamburger and french fries and a Sprite.

you know so it's like yeah i've been told that they i mean it was selling so well that i fucked up mcdonald's like supply chain like that it's it's just but that to me is the ultimate like yeah there's no such thing as selling out anymore that is that is absolutely like the biggest rapper in the world is doing a fast food deal and everybody loves it that means selling out like you and i both remember that all three of us are that age where that was like a big deal. And now that is not a word, a term that I ever hear. No, it's, it's true. When I first was coming up in the nineties and I had my own label and managing bands, like just even the bands that were sponsored by Budweiser were just, they were shunned. I mean, it was just corny, you know, any, any connection endorsement connection was considered really corny and selling out. I mean, that's the only way to make money now. Well, before, the only way to make money as an artist was live shows, and Travis Scott did a good job at that. He was playing live as the only thing that he's good at, and that revenue stream was taken away instantly. So enter in a collaboration with a corporate fast food chain. So what do you think, Mike, what do you think the future of touring looks like right now? Do we have a... What is the rumored proposed date, or people really think that fans are going to pay for streaming? Chris, you didn't see the iHeartRadio festival this weekend? It was really cool watching Migos rap Birkin bag to nobody. Oh, no. I didn't see that. It was tough. Have you watched anything yourself, or does it not interest you, really? I've watched some clients. that have done some stuff, you know, and it's pretty cool. Um, it's obviously not the answer. Um, and the, and the problem is, is all your fans can see that. So you got one instead of a tour, you know what I mean? Like you have a 50 city tour or one online event, you know? Um, and it's not the same. It's called a virtual experience, Mike. Not in it. Yeah. Show us some respect. Yeah. I thought you were in the fucking base, man. I stand corrected. Uh,

But, I mean, look, I don't want to get into politics, but if we get some leadership in this country and we get somebody who can deal with the COVID thing, maybe everyone gets back to work and gets on tour, you know? No, I think there's some truth to it. I mean, I think that musicians are, I'm sure, desperate for it. And I also think that even if it comes... even if it's a little early, you know what I'm saying? Even if it's like, I think people are desperate to see it the same way people are going to see tenant theaters and like driving an hour to whatever counties allowing it. I think people are just desperate for it. So that does work in the favor of the business. You're right. That's a good sign. But also a friend of mine just drove from New York to Ohio to see Dave Chappelle. Really? Oh, to the backyard thing. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I would do that. What did he say about it? I haven't gotten the download. It was just last week. So is Chappelle doing that? Is he doing it that often? Is it like a once a week thing? Or like what's the vibe? I don't know. I think the tickets were like 200 bucks. So I'm not sure how many people they let in. But it looks really cool. And he brings friends and stuff, right? It's not just him? I'm not sure. He brings D'Elia, all the guys out. That's awesome. Well, could you speculate this? While we're in COVID, we're in quarantine lockdown, nobody's going to be able to go to a concert for who knows how many months or years before it's back to normal. Is there a point where we grow accustomed to this life of not experiencing a concert and we start? preferring a virtual experience or just no concert at all or do you think you know is there like you know after five years or something that will we all be over it like the same way we're all going to be over going to a movies in a movie theater when we can just watch it at home now I think the best case scenario is it adds a new revenue stream and people still like to go, you know, have the experience of seeing someone live. We don't like talking about best case scenarios on this podcast. We like to doom scroll and speculate. So you're saying that the best case is like, all right, I live in a place where I'm never going to see these bands. So now I get to pay for it and experience it in my own way. And if I live in New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, I get to go to tours too. I get to do both.

Yeah, I would say that. But I think tours are still going to go to C and D markets once the pandemic ends. I mean, again, that's being optimistic as well that it ends. Mike, what's a D market to you? I would love to know what a D market constitutes. What constitutes a D market? Because I think Jason and I have our own ideas as well. So I'd love for you to throw one out there. I don't know. Palmerdale, Alabama? Okay, sure. Anywhere in Alabama. But I mean, I didn't know. I thought markets were A, B, C. I didn't even know there was a D. That's why I'm asking. I didn't know it was that low. I mean, the smallest venue in North Dakota, maybe? Yeah, sure. There's always a place out there. So if touring comes back, it's going to come back in a way that it'll be obviously distanced or whatever, but it's still going to hit the same places. It would have to. What's really tough is that the venues, they're really hurting. I wish there could be some sort of assistance for them. Agreed. It's fucked. It's bad. Did a bunch of agents that you work with just get fucking cans? Not really. Everyone's doing okay. They were already rich enough to where it's fine either way. I mean, agencies are really trying to keep people, I mean, they're anticipating, they're also seemingly optimistic and they're anticipating that there's going to be a business in the next year or two. I mean, I know that some, I heard some stories about how they handle it in some places, you know, like it's interesting, you know, like UTA or someone I think did 20% across the board, like salary cut at the beginning and didn't have to lay it off, which is to me is like, that's a great way to handle this. You know what I mean? And I think that like, that feels really democratic and kind of like makes everyone feel like a team, you know? Um, even if it's obviously it sucks for a junior agent to get a 20% salary cut, but if your boss is getting the same thing, you know, of course you're like, he's making more money than me, blah, blah, blah. But it is, I think that to me is like the best way to handle this stuff, you know? Right. And the agents literally, I mean, they're not twiddling their thumbs. I think a lot of them are still working, booking online things or trying to find, you know,

situations like that a lot of them you know trying to find endorsements etc so the agency still has some business trying to see how they can take 10 out of zero exactly exactly exactly i mean did you so have you been busy was it slow for a while and now people are wanting to do deals again or what's the cadence been for you hadn't changed i'm pretty busy i've been doing new artist deals new artist publishing deals i mean new publishing deals um yeah i'm honestly i don't want to you know sorry so you haven't had to dip into medical law or any type of vaccination related paperwork yeah you you didn't have to you didn't have to become an ambulance chaser yet not yet not yet i mean it's always on the you know on the back burner it's always possibility um but no what's the vibe at the dr office like what do we what's the setup like you got how many monitor how many monitor because you know so jason let me let me set the stage mike's office in new york he's got the standing desk station and the regular death station right and then i have two monitors at the regular desk yeah and you were early on the standing desk but jason i feel like you flirted with that as well yeah but i'm not a gamer so i don't have as impressive of a setup as he does I understand. Mike, you think he's working on a contract, but he's actually playing World of Warcraft. We know your secret. That's why he wanted to become partners, so he'd get an office with a door that closes. That was a big deal for him. Do you think you would ever dip into the world of representing a gamer personality, legally speaking, or helping out a TikToker or influencer with their legal work? I've repped some influencers now, some big influencers. There's a lot of work to be done there. I didn't know that. Of course, you will not divulge those people, correct? No, I can't. Good for you. This one also does music. I see. It's in my lane either way. I haven't really made a huge foray into that.

are those but are those influencer deal like what do you like are they are those are they trying to get those done faster that stuff seems to move a lot faster than like a record deal would is that am i wrong well yeah because they're just one time you know you get like you know 10 grand to post this 30 grand to post this or this much time and there's the exclusivity lasts for a month instead of like years on normal endorsement yeah it's almost like they don't even need a lawyer My favorite part of influencer deals is that you can usually just delete the post. You can delete it off the grid two weeks after you post it because it doesn't matter anymore. That's a negotiated point. Yeah, I know. One day is worth it. If I'm posting some whack shit but it's 20 grand, I can delete it next week. We're all good. Right, but if they want you to keep it up and they want to retweet it for a year, then you've got to think about it a little bit. Yeah, you've got to get more money. Exactly. I mean, that world, yeah, it's the same but different. You know what I mean? I think that that is the truth of all of it. You're right. It's all like contracts are contracts when it comes to endorsements. Right. But, you know, they aren't locking these kids down for a long time, really. You know, the kids, it's kind of brilliant. They're just, you know, they're using, they have a platform. They can. contract direct, and this platform that they have makes some money. It's cool. And if they're smart, they do smart deals, they're making a really damn good living. Jason, I think we know where we need to go now when the deals start coming in. I'm glad that we have you as a resource, Mike. You are going to be the difference that we have in this world from the regular podcast influencers and the shining stars. Exactly. Let's get started now. Is this conversation going to be billed? Is that what you mean? Are you saying? I mean, I can start as early as today, boys. I thought this was a percentage deal, right? We started right now, actually, Chris. So I'll send you a PDF later. It's going to have the wire info in it and everything.

All right. Well, Mike, thank you for your insight. It's been very helpful, honestly. And I think people – I think this is stuff that – these are the kind of questions that, you know, people have, I think, in some ways. And I do think that the music business is very interesting to us and our listeners. So getting some real insight from a pro has been very helpful. I hope it was helpful. I'm glad to do it. And it's always a pleasure talking to you guys. Don't send us any demos. We will not send them to Mike. No unsolicited demos to how long gone. Okay? Like, please don't send your demo. No mixtapes. Mike, stop sending us demos too. It's starting to get a little old. That's not really how this relationship is supposed to work. Being on this podcast is my first step towards my artist career. I'm laying the foundation. I like that. I'm glad that we can both be part of each other's journeys moving into new arenas in this post-COVID world. Absolutely. We'll do our online show together. Exactly. But honestly, thanks for joining us. It was really fun. And I'll look for our invite to the Dominican Republic with our bill. So just, you know, you keep us posted. It's open. Take care, guys. Thanks, Mike. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Later.