046. - Matthew Schnipper

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How are you feeling, mate? I'm feeling pretty well. Just having a little bit of a sleepy weekend, I guess. Where are we at with the renovations? Are we finished? Not finished. I'm actually down in the OC this weekend, escaping. I'm in the belly of the beast. Well, what's the vibe at Starbucks? I did not go to Starbucks. I went to a juice place. I went to Whole Foods. I mean, I don't know. It's just weird. Long Beach and Orange County and all those places, I can't put my finger on what it is. They're so close, but they're just not there. And I don't know if they ever will be. But does it feel funny walking around? Are you getting vibed out if you have a mask on? Or is it pretty left alone? No, I mean, we've been in Long Beach, which is a lot more liberal and diverse than other parts of Orange County, for sure. So it's a fully pretty normal vibe in that way, similar to L.A. We have not spent any time in Huntington where it's a whole lot different. But it is like I can't really be here for more than a day or two before I just start losing my shit. I mean, it makes Glendale look like fucking Silver Lake. What a pointed shot from a lifelong Los Angeles resident. I feel like you've been in Orange County a lot lately. Do you have anything you want to tell me or has it just been circumstance? It's just been visiting our families is all it is. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because New York is feeling good right now, actually, compared to a lot of the rest of the country. But you're not in New York, are you? No, but I'm just pointing it out. You mean just from social media it feels that way? Yeah, well, facts also, but yeah, social media. It's just like...

It's interesting to see that happen because I remember some L.A. residents being like, New York is so fucked. It's so crazy. And now I just I feel like it's a little flip, bro. I think it is a little flipped, but I think at this point there's no real like who's doing a good or a bad job. I think just America as a whole has done a bad job. And now the consequences are surfacing. These vacations are canceled, bitch. No Greece this summer. Ibiza is off the table. You had to cancel all your gigs. Yeah, I mean, I haven't done much reading on it, but it says that Europe is just kind of closing Americans out. July 1st, they're like, nah, we're straight. But I mean... i again i just don't know how this stuff actually works like if you show up are they literally like turn around or is there like a conversation to be had if you get like a a cool border agent i know those are i know that sounds like an oxymoron but you know what i mean like i just wonder how because they're all there's all these different like you know uh caveats to all everything where it's like, Oh, essential worker. You know what I mean? So it's like, I wonder, I mean, obviously if you show up with fucking sunscreen on your nose, you're like, yeah, I'm hitting the beach. They're going to be like, now turn around. But you know, I wonder if you're, if you're smart about it, if there is a way to, to penetrate. If you can just slide TSA at crisp 20 and say it's all good. I know that I'm legally banned from international travel, but just let me cruise, bro. It's all good. It's all good, baby. Come on. It's summer. You know what I'm saying? I think there used to be a time when I could sweet talk somebody into giving me an exit row seat upgrade, and that does not happen anymore. So I don't know if the... Can I book a flight that is illegal? Oh, I'm sure you can still book a flight. The airlines will take it. The airlines are down to take the money. They don't give a fuck if you get in or not. That ain't their problem. That's a good point. Well, I'm happy to say that Delta, my preferred partner in the air, has not. My preferred partner in the air? Yeah, some of these other little broke boy airlines, American and United, they're just packing the planes now. Delta's like, no, we're still keeping those middle seats empty.

wow those guys are i mean it's just amazing what they're doing keeping the middle seats empty so hey man look the social distancing of six feet is moot is now you know six inches and it's all good did you see that picture of the guy in the in the make america great again hat asleep on the plane with the mask yeah on his eyes that's a sleep mask poetic amazing shit see that's i mean like if if if karen is getting like physically removed from a Trader Joe's in North Hollywood for not wearing a mask like how is a TSA official or like a sky marshal or you know a flight attendant or a pilot or any of these people not being like hey bro you have to put your mask on your face like an adult and not over your eyes or else you can't be on the plane or like I'm sure, I mean, look, I'm sure, look, that guy's a fucking bozo, but I'm sure somebody told him, but they couldn't tell him until he did it, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's true, that's true. Somebody could have caught the flicky while he's like fucking sawing logs, you know? I mean, just imagine what it would be like if I was sitting next to that fucking guy and I saw him do that. I would be so excited to get the flick that I would be willing to put my life at risk. No, no, no. Don't put it on yet. Let me wait. Let's get out of these clouds before my lighting can get better. Hold on. Portrait mode is taking a second to load. You can just give me a little bit of time. I knew you were portrait hive. You know that it takes a little bit longer to load. I would never use portrait mode. That shit is tradash, bro. We ain't. Now that I got this new computer, though, things are looking up for me technology-wise. Okay, so now you went from a MacBook Air to a MacBook Air, and now you'll be able to use Twitter better? Is that what's going on? Look, man, new technology, a new machine, especially... So Jay, my partner in public announcement...

handled it all and just sent it to me and i opened it and it was ready to work like i i didn't miss a beat it was fully set up for me and it looked just like my old computer right that's that's that's what white gloves jay i know you're listening to this don't do this shit for chris all right you're you're you're babying him and when he's ready to to grow up and get out into the world on his own. He won't have the skills to, to make it alone. Well, I think what you're missing here is that, that Jay likes to do this, you know? So it's not, it's, it's both pleasurable for him and pleasurable. Did he, did he like put a little chocolate on, on top? No, but he put some, he put some stickers, my contact information on the bottom just in case it gets lost. I mean, literally. All I had to do was scan my thumbprint because that's the new way you open the computer. So he already put the Supreme sticker on there and everything, and it's all just like the old one. That's great. Yeah, exactly. God damn it. Yeah, he put a Supreme sticker on the front and the bottom so you know it's me. But no, I had that shitty keyboard, like Apple's biggest mistake, and it actually sucked. And I had it replaced like a year ago, and it still sucked. I don't care about having a new computer unless there's a real issue where it doesn't work, and then I need it. So the new keyboard on the new MacBook Air is clacking sufficiently for you? It's clacking as hell, boy. It go click-clack when my fingers tickle. Okay, wonderful. So we're able to finally get that novel finished. Yeah, exactly. That's what we were waiting on. The memoir coming 2025 now that I've got the proper keyboard. But no, it's always nice to get new technology. Sure. Even as a Luddite, it helps. I'm envious. Well, you need a bigger boy than me.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm doing audio editing. I'm making Instagram stories, graphics. Like, I demand real horsepower for my rig. You need your shit to be overheating. You know what I mean? I'm making freaking food posts. It's a lot. It's a lot. Hey, it's a lot. I have Adobe membership. It's popping. The one thing I thought he may bless me with was an Adobe membership just for shits and giggles, but that didn't make it. That would have been a good prank. When you finally come to California soon, there's going to be a lot of pranks coming your way, buddy. I can't wait. There's a lot of stuff I've been meaning to do, but it doesn't translate well virtually, so we really need that IRL experience. I can't wait, bro. I'm going to just touch down, get my COVID test. I got a trainer lined up. Yeah, I'm actually getting a COVID test tomorrow. Just in time for you. I've been told it hurts a little. Really? Yeah. I talked to Ben Egger yesterday. He's like, the boy is negative, but damn, it tickled. It hurt a little. Oh, he got the rich guy test. um well i i plan to get the rich guy test too i thought i guess i didn't know there was a difference well they have they have one where you just repido where there's one where you just swab the inside of your mouth with a q-tip and then there's one that is a little it's a little more invasive yeah where you get a little tickle just like my plastic surgery i like to keep it topical and not invasive so i can wait i can wait an extra day you know what i mean it's not it ain't that serious it ain't that serious but that's uh yeah i'm actually i was i was gonna do it here but then yeah it made more sense to do it once i got there yeah and you know just like joe rogan if if we're gonna be in the same city podcasting together potentially in the same room we're gonna have to get you tested bitch you're gonna have to get tested like it don't act like this is on me i don't know what the fuck you're doing you're going to whole foods in orange county bro

That's riskier than me getting on the plane. Don't worry. Don't worry. All the people in Orange County, nobody goes to Whole Foods. They don't even know what it is. It's a goddamn ghost town. This is painting you the picture of SoCal lifestyle. I went in there and they have the snack bar lifestyle lounge area where you can get a draft beer or a kombucha float or something like that. Yes. And they have TVs, and the TVs were playing a rodeo competition. Bro. What the fuck? This ain't Arkansas. Nobody wants to see a rodeo competition before they go throw the frisbee around in Long Beach. Jason, I think, unfortunately, that's where you're wrong, and that's why it's hurting you so deeply. The reason it's up there is because somebody does want to watch it. And I think the fact that Orange County, your birthplace, and the South, my birthplace, are becoming interchangeable is both scary and bringing us closer together. Yeah. Bonded by racism. Well, this is a subject that I would like to get into more with our guest who can probably offer insights that we cannot. Yes. Our guest today is Matthew Schnipper. Big Snip. Big Snip, who is the former executive editor of Pitchfork. He was editor-in-chief of The Fader, an editor at The Verge, and GQ. This motherfucker's really gotten around. You know what I mean? The guy edits. The guy edits hard as hell. But he's been writing a lot of good stuff lately. He wrote this great thing for GQ about naming his son after Henry Rollins, which even though I don't have children, I am a fan of Henry Rollins. And he also just did a big piece on Haim, who I've decided I'm a fan of because the new record is really slapping. It's a big turnaround for you. Well, I was never not a fan, but we'll get into this with him. Let me give him a call. All right. All right. Later. Later. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone is brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby. Let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot.

because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code how long taskers book up faster, especially for same day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code how long with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world, writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools.

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What? Yeah, I had to borrow my wife's AirPods because my auxiliary cord does not work on such a big, fancy phone. I'm impressed with your lack of technological development. Yeah, this is funny. How many podcasts are you doing on a weekly basis, Matt? How many podcasts? This is the second podcast I've ever done. Okay. What was the first one? I don't care what it is. It's not as good as this one, but I want to know. I did Blamo. Oh, never mind. I can't fire shots at my man. No, it was Fresh Air. No. Terry asked me on last week, so we had a chat. I don't know if you've heard about it. It's on NPR. I don't know. It's like a local thing. I actually was on Fresh Air for a minute. It was involving the Zac Efron DJ movie. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Matthew, what's up? How are you? I'm glad that we can talk having been ex-hollerboard bros. Yeah, thank you for having me. Wait, wait, wait. I didn't know you guys were former hollerboard kings together. I wouldn't say about king. It's probably not the right. Being the king of a DJ message board, not the most glorious crown one could have. But a lot of people consider that to be a breeding ground of early influential music makers and journalists. A lot of people were birthed from that scene. I think that's definitely true. Has there been an oral history of the Hollerboard written by Complex.com yet? Somebody did something a few years ago. It was not CrookedComplex.com. I don't remember what it was. It may have just been on someone's personal blog. I'm surprised there hasn't been a deeper dive because I've never used it, but I've heard about it for so long that I would read that story. Are the archives still up? I don't know. Jason? Not that I know of. I don't know if Low Budget paid the...

Paid the server fees for that. The hosting for that. What is the 202 area code? Oh, DC. Are you from DC? I am not. When I got a cell phone, I was in college in DC. I went to George Washington. So I've just had this number since 2001. So it's stuck. DC is going to be a full state now? Is that what I hear? Yeah, it would be cool. Yeah, it's on its way. It's on its way. What would be cool about that happening? I've never been to D.C. I am familiar with what it is, though. It's taxation with representation. When coronavirus funds were doled out, D.C. also did not get as much money as all the other states because of its lack of statehood. And in general, though they have representation in Congress, they don't have voting representation. So the city will be able to, or the soon-to-be state, will be able to have the same representation as 50 other brothers and sisters states. Why do you think this took so long? Is it just not high priority? That's a great question. I really don't know. Are we looking out for D.C.? I mean, it just seems like something that should have happened a while ago, especially if there are issues locally. But I never thought about it that much. Puerto Rico needs it too. Yeah, I was just going to say, I think Puerto Rico, I mean, who knows? It's not a competition of who's next in line, but I think they're also in need of a lot of services as well, unfortunately. I would agree. I mean, once California secedes, it'll be easier. Yeah, we're going to have three different states in California, baby. It's going to be good. Which one are you going to be in? There's going to be Trump supporters, Democrats, and then the third one is for poor people. That's what's going to go down. That sounds about right. Unfortunately. I mean, that's kind of what it is right now. Where are you right now, Matt? I am currently in Cape Cod. In Massachusetts. Did you stay in New York for most of the shutdown?

I did. I came here two weeks ago to my parents' house. I have a four-month-old child. And my wife went back to work after her maternity leave. And my folks said we could come up here. So it seemed like it would make a little bit of sense to give my wife some space to do work. me to have a little bit more space to hang out with the baby than in our apartment. But we were in New York through all coronavirus. It's still happening, I guess. Sure, sure. So you had the baby right before lockdown, basically. That's correct. Yeah, he was born February 6th. So it was kind of, I guess it was happening already, but nobody knew it was happening. So he got to meet a few people. He met his great-grandmother, which was cool. And then he's basically been in lockdown for most of his life. damn that's fucking when you put it that way it hits really hard you know what i mean it's been it's been kind of weird it's a weird time to have a baby i mean i guess it's good because i think you can't decide to have a baby tomorrow you know so it's not like i wouldn't recommend having a baby during this time it's like you can you know make that happen pretty easily uh never a great time to have a baby i'm assuming uh i mean i would say there are worse times than others, most likely. This seems like probably not a great time. I mean, spend a lot of time with him. He went to the beach for the first time today. Did not like that. Was he wearing a, you know, my sister had twins a little while ago. I'm a twin. Oh, wow. Damn, so is Jason. Oh, cool. Congratulations. Yeah, we should do that. What'd you say? Yeah, she had twins like almost a year ago. Congratulations. hey thank you big uncle chris hasn't really done much yet but he's waiting to intervene when they're old enough to really you know mold their minds you know um i'm really good boys girls what's the deal girls um girls wow big ass big ass heads like uncle chris the watermelon on a toothpick vibe you know chris are you known for having a big head i don't know if i know if that's a a trait of yours um well my father amongst my family yes um but

Not amongst my peers, which maybe now that will change. But I've noticed a big trend with babies at the beach is every kid at the beach now wears a shirt. It's a sun guard. Yes, a rash guard, a rash guard. They basically, but all kids now wear these long sleeve tops at the beach to protect them from the sun because sunscreen isn't enough. You can't put sunscreen on a baby until they're six months old. Oh, okay. Under six months old, you've got to pass. Over six months old, you're a cuck-ass baby. Yeah, exactly. That's definitely it. How crazy is it to see your parents helping you raise your child at this time right now? Just even watching your baby and your parents chilling together. Well, so he hadn't seen anybody in months. And so when he saw them, he bugged out. He started crying. Really? Yeah, he was like, you know, he saw them for the first month of his life. And then he saw them this, you know, when he saw them the other day, he was like, just apoplectic. Now they're chilling. So like now, you know, my parents are kind of, you know, getting on the ground, rolling around with them. So as far as he was concerned, you and your, you and your wife were the only people he thought existed on earth. That's the whole world. You know, he'd been, he sees, you know, the mailman, maybe like my landlord, sometimes he was seeing him, but like nobody was kind of like cuddling up with him. So he was able to really like get in there and it was like at first kind of horrifying, but now he's delighted by it, you know? We listen to some music. You don't often see seven-year-old people sitting on the floor. So that's also just kind of fun. That's a good point. Great point. Yeah, they like chairs historically. Yeah, 100%. Have you found it difficult to get your work done? Because I feel like you've upped your output. Shit's happening. So has it been – I wrote two things. Well, that's –

Upping your output with a child? Oh, for sure. I ain't doing shit, bro. I'm barely doing shit right now, and I got no kids. Well, I got laid off six weeks ago, a month ago, something like that. Did you see that? You got laid off from Pitchfork? Yeah, Conde Nast. Which you had been working at for a while. Five years, just about. Did Anna Wintour call you, or was it an email? Yeah, personally. She actually came by. That's cool. That's nice. That's nice. It was nice of her. She's the last person Renzo saw, actually, myself. She lowered her sunglasses and greeted the baby before letting you know. I can't talk about her too much because I had to sign an NDA to get my severance. But no, I got laid off. So then I was like, I should probably do some stuff. So I had two ideas. I wrote two things I think you're referring to. Yes, I had two ideas. One of them was I should talk about my my child. So I named my my child's name is Renzo Rollins Schnipper. And his middle name is after Henry Rollins. And then I was like, I should interview Haim about the bomb. So I also did that. Somewhat less serious. I was talking about Haim earlier because I've never been a real head. I think it's like they have songs here and there, but people fucking love them. They're great. This new record's really hitting for me. It's so good. And you know what? I have a theory, though, that I think is Big Dog Rostam. My man has the golden touch. He's a great producer, there's no question. But I don't mean, this is a great record, but they're all great. And the first album is so powerful. The song Wire. If you haven't spent the time really in it and you're loving this record, go back because it will definitely hit. Rostum is amazing and he's got, there's no question, he's got a golden touch. Rostum really has touched all the records I've liked in the last two years. It's crazy, kind of. And his solo record is really underappreciated, I think. I can't believe it didn't go bigger than it did. I agree. I mean, I think it doesn't have...

It didn't bang as hard as some of the stuff that he worked on as a producer, I think. I agree. It does not bang that hard. It does not bang that hard. I would agree. But I wonder if people will go revisit it once they realize that he's touched everything. You know what people should revisit, Rostam-related, though, is Discovery, which is his project when he was in Vampire Weekend. Much poppier, more synth-heavy. Discovery is excellent. I remember Discovery. Wasn't Discovery in LA? Was it L.A.? Was one of the guys in L.A.? You know, I don't know. They're all on the internet. I'm not sure where that is. I don't know. We'd have to find that out. We'd have to wiki this. But that is a good example for people, though, because I remember that. I really liked it. No, it was the guy from Raw Raw Riot and Rostom. It was a duo. So I think it was an East Coast situation. He loves a duo, huh? Duo is a nice way. It's like, you know, you get intimate with somebody. It's like a marriage. Well, you guys are a duo. Or a podcast. Yeah, we are a duo. Unfortunately, the royalties aren't hitting like some of these Rostam records are. We don't know that for sure. We don't know that for sure. We're not getting any car ads. You know what I mean? We didn't get an Apple commercial. That's for sure. Our syncs this quarter are not as good as they could be. That's true. We don't get there. That's our hope. Maybe get Rostam to produce the podcast. Damn. What if we did that? What if we reached out to music producers to produce the podcast and just put some sauce on it? That's actually a good idea. What sauce? We could just have interludes. Just get a little hi-hat going in minute 48. I just feel like that hasn't been done. So maybe there's a lane there for us. Do you listen to podcasts, Matt? I do, yeah. What are your hits? Oh, man. Aside from so long gone, I don't know, man. Just that. NPR. NPR. You know, I'm a Planet Money guy, I think. I don't know. Is that embarrassing to say? I'm not sure. I like Planet Money. I like Heavyweight. You know, I'm like kind of OG like Terry Gross person. Somebody asked me that recently. I was like, is Fresh Air a podcast? I don't know.

um i just like listening to people talking so that's that's kind of it but are you at the stage where are you currently listening to more music or more podcasts on a daily basis probably more music i'm a music guy so like i always listen to music i'm constantly listening to music so um it's hard there's very little things that i'm doing more than listening to music basically damn i guess that's true that makes sense i i just can't that's my life i can't listen to podcasts anymore it's tough for me really i don't yeah i mean like i just listen to music all the time now which i didn't for for a couple years i've listened to only podcasts and i just wonder if people are if people flip-flop or if it's like you go through a phase when something is like kind of new you know and you're excited about it i'm kind of feeling a little of a little podcast fatigue myself and i i typically listen to podcasts more than music except for like Kind of ambient background stuff. I think podcasts are a cool form because nobody knows how they work still. It's still so new. It's like fanzines. I think that's why I kind of like listening to them. You know, some people have fanzines that are just collages. Some people are like, here's my literature fanzine or my poetry fanzine. Some people are like, I made a professional fanzine where I interviewed everybody in your favorite band. I don't think it's kind of cool. Nobody knows what it is yet. It's still pretty fresh. I like that. I mean, I like media. I like being curious. I mean, I'm a pretty earnest person, so just the idea that people would go and be like, what's up with this thing is exciting to me. Well, this is a poetry fanzine, so I just want to make that clear. I've read some really terrible poetry and fanzines in my life, and I haven't been reminded of that in a really long time. I'm glad I could do that for you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I need to hit the zine table before I leave Atlanta. Did you grow up going to hardcore shows? I did, yeah. I grew up mostly in Connecticut. My dad worked for ESPN, which was in the middle of nowhere in Connecticut. Yes, I've read an entire book about ESPN. I don't even like sports. You read the oral history? I loved it. He worked there from the late 80s until he retired. We lived in the middle of nowhere in the suburbs in Connecticut. Was he a journalist? Was he on camera or was he behind the scenes? No, he's a lawyer. He worked on contracts and stuff.

So we would just go. Until I would drive, my dad would bring me to shows, which was cool. He was not a fan of hardcore music at all. Would he hang out? He would go, and there was this place called the Tune In in New Haven, which was an amazing club. And he would go, and he would just sit. They had a chair that was kind of by the door. And he would just kind of sit and chill and then let me go. Usually with my friend Dan, we would just kind of go to the show. So it was kind of like we were on our own. But he was there to, like, kind of bring us home. So he didn't want to go and watch anything. Could I hear it, though? Yeah, my dad has seen Warzone, which I feel, like, pretty cool about. That is pretty cool. I don't think my parents were interested. Like, I think either they trusted me enough or they just didn't care enough. But by the time I was, like, 12 or 13, it was, like, drop-off time. Oh. Yeah, no, I didn't get that far until I was a little bit older. But, I mean, I was young. I mean, I was, like... you know i'm a 12 year old kid like i also can't get to new haven on my own you know yeah you can't even like get to the corner on your own in the suburbs you know it's like someone had to drive you so yeah he brought me to that his favorite moment i think it was not the same show as the warzone show there was i actually i'm gonna put this out into the world right now because i want it to happen i'm a big ebay guy um hell yeah and I did not buy in 1995, whatever. The bands Warzone and the UK band The Business went on tour together. I saw this tour with my dad, and they made t-shirts for it that were Warzone and Business t-shirts. And for years and years and years, I have just been waiting for a Warzone Business shirt to show up. But every day instead, I just get a notification that there's the same book about the business of War Zones. Like every day. New item, new item. And I sadly click it every day and it's never the shirt. So if anybody has that shirt, please hit me up. To be honest, that could be something our listeners do have. That's what I feel like. I wouldn't be totally shocked. Also, that is a good bit in your 90s hardcore stand-up routine.

It had a nice setup and a pretty good delivery. We can tell you've been workshopping that for a while, especially now that you're with your dad. The other thing he likes to talk about, though, he will never remember the band, and it's kind of amazing. Do you guys remember Crown of Thorns with a Z? Yes, unfortunately, I do. So he also saw Crown of Thorns with me, and it must have been 96. And Lord Ezak was talking about voting. And he was like, it doesn't matter who you vote for, you know, like, but you got to go out and vote. And my dad was just like, that's awesome. You know, because he's just watching. That was, I think, Crown of Thorns and H2O and Fast Break. And he's just like with me. And there's a million people's like, you know, like a human pyramid of people. And he's like, the guy with the tattoos is telling everybody to vote? Like, he's like, that's what this is about? I was like, in some ways, you have just understood the whole thing. Well, we've talked about this podcast before how being into hardcore, even though it's – at least we're in Atlanta. It was predominantly like white males from the suburbs. It is relatively progressive in what you're hearing about at a young age. That's correct. And there's some value there. You know what I mean? Like there's some stuff I would have never – it would have taken me a lot longer to learn if I would have gotten a late start. I was totally foundational in my life. It still is. So were you also a straight edge bro? yeah so i was yes no i was definitely like so when i was the reason i got also got into hardcore because i was sick when i was a kid this is a little bit of what i wrote about on in this story about why why my kid's name is renzo rollins but so like i was taking all these like insane medications and like drugs when i was in the hospital like they were like you know zooting me up with like morphine and all this stuff and i was just like in another planet and so i was like but then when i stopped i was like in the suburbs like also where i was growing up there was like a lot of a lot of kids and a lot of drugs and i was like get me away from that like so i didn't do i didn't i didn't drink until i was you know into my 20s like i you know i didn't i didn't touch anything so same took a while really yeah same i mean true till 21 bro yeah i have to say were you vegan too though i was never vegan i was vegetarian but not vegan

Did you travel a lot? Did you take trips with your friends and stuff and do that whole thing in the Northeast? A little bit, yeah, I did. I didn't know that many people that were into music until I got into college. So when I got into college, I ended up... That time in D.C. was incredible. The Discord scene of bands was unbelievable around 2001. So I made friends. There was a band called Black Eyes that put a couple records out on Discord. Two of those guys are still very close buddies of mine. But I toured with them a few times. I became good friends with Chris Richards, who you guys should have on your podcast. I know Chris, actually, pretty well. Oh, good, yeah. Chris and I were really good pals then. Great zine, actually. Speaking of zines, I love his. Oh, he does. Debbie Save Ringtone, which you think you should subscribe to. Yeah, so Chris and I got to know his band, Cure Not You, and went around with them a bit. Yeah, that was like the... the most exciting thing in my whole life it was the best yeah so did you want to be in the music business but just didn't know what to do or did you was writing the goal from the jump i didn't know anything like i had like i seriously like sometimes when i was at pitchfork like i have we ran a fellowship program and i talked to these kids who are 21 years old you know i just think about how insanely smart and how up on like the industries they are and like so ready for everything it's so impressive like I didn't know anything. Like we talk about holler board. Like I actually like posted on another message board called soul strut. Um, and that was more for like record collecting people. Cause I was a record collector. And so then I kind of ended up getting connected with a few people like with this, with Nick catch dubs, who's also on the holler board and he was working at the fader and he was like, Oh, do you just, you should come in for an interview. And then. I was like, cool, what's an editor? Like, I had no idea what any of this stuff was. So obviously I didn't get the job, like, because he was like, you're not qualified for this and don't know what it is. But then like a couple years later, then I kind of learned what it was. And after staying in touch with them, then I ended up getting a job, like, I think two years, two and a half years after that interview. But you were there, you were at the Fader during like the heyday when it was probably at its coolest, right? Absolutely. Definitely. Can I say that? Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I was at Fader for a long time, like, which was, it was really fun to work there then. That was also the time when, like, it was, I remember the drama about, like, should Fader get a MySpace page? Because it would make us look like we were not, like, you know, with everybody. Like, the idea that, like, we were, we needed to be kind of elevated in our cool. And if we, like, got a MySpace page, it meant we were thirsty. So, but then it was, like, finding for business, you have to get one. So, like, I watched kind of social media happen in media, like, in real time, which was. Kind of weird. Truly a simpler time. It feels like that's 30 years ago when a business would be like, should we get a social media account for our business? I don't know if that's a good idea. It's going to be like selling out. Which is a crazy thought. I also never thought of The Fader as super underground. You know what I mean? That's not what I thought of it as. I don't know. I had Beanie Man on the cover. I thought it was so cool. You would put famous people on the cover, though. You know what I mean? I was kind of into that, yeah. I like that, too. That's what also sells magazines. You know what I mean? Let's be real. There's that kind of person who's the underground, overground person that you're always like... you know, that you would look for that person who would fit in both worlds somehow, you know, like MIA was kind of the famous, like she had her first cover with Fader and she's kind of the perfect example of that. But I would always, you guys cheated, you guys cheated with the two covers so you could cover your bassists. Oh man, it was so hard to get two covers to make them work together. Oh, it was, it was not easy. That doesn't seem, I'm sure like working that out with different teams as far as the musicians go was not fun. No, it wasn't always great. And then it was like, are they going to be split so that half of them will be on the front? And then some people would find out they'd only be on the back cover and then they'd be mad about it. It was a lot of feelings. What was the big seller? Like what was the number one cover when you were there? Am I? I don't know. Probably. It has to be like, I would imagine it's got to be like, well, we know the Aaliyah issue that we did. And like Frank Ocean, we did his first cover. That probably did well. Solange, that cover was really nice.

I don't know, that's a good question. No, you guys were on that shit early, for sure. I mean, MIA seems like 30 years ago, too, to be honest. Totally, yeah. I mean, actually, speaking of Hollerborn, I saw her at Hollertronics, and she did just Glang. And I remember it went from her doing one song in the Ukrainian dance hall, and then Diplo coming on and playing Sierra after that, and just being like, this whole thing is blowing my mind. so ancient, you know? What is she doing now? Is she just like a full-time anti-vaxxer? Oh, no. Is she an anti-vaxxer? She, I believe, is an anti-vaxxer, yes. Really? I believe so, yes. I believe so. Oh, that's so disappointing. I mean, that, I just, I don't know, man. She really had it. She was on a fucking run for a while. Like, there's three or four songs that are just like iconic. And the video, I mean, that video, like the one where they're ghostwriting in the Middle East. That's probably one of the best music videos of all time. Oh, man. Is that Bad Girls? I can't remember which song that is. I think it is. Yeah, it is. It's incredible. And that song wasn't even that long ago. No, that was in the last 10 years, for sure. But that was the last time I feel like it was really popping. You know what I mean? It was really hitting. I will always have a sweet spot for her, for sure. Same. Oh, yeah, same. I think that was – it's also like that kind of in some ways defined that era, but it also crossed over enough. Like it was – she was like a cultural phenomenon, you know? Yeah. Well, I mean did you – so you were there – did you go straight from there to Pitchfork? No. So I left the fader because I was like, oh, I have to make money one day. So then I was like – then I got hired at The Verge. That didn't work out. The tech website. I got hired at the tech website, The Verge, which was very interesting. I have a lot of respect for the work that they do at The Verge. I did one huge project about virtual reality, which I'm still very proud of. I learned a lot about virtual reality. That was very sick. 1999 was really cool for you. Good to hear. That didn't work out necessarily, but respect.

That's a longer story. That's a podcast episode, too. And then I worked at GQ for a little while, which was weird and didn't also work out, but I'm still on very good terms with them. And then I got a job at Pitchfork, and then I was there for a long time. Were you writing about music at GQ, or was it culture and the whole thing? A little bit. My job actually was running style for the website. So I was working with Sam, uh, Sam Shuby and John Januzzi, uh, Jake Wolf. Do you love, do you love gear? I didn't, I didn't know that about you. I think, you know, it's funny. Like Jake, anytime like me and GQ comes up, is it safe to assume your audience knows who Jake Wolf is? Uh, yeah, probably. I think so. Jake, respect to Jake. I hope you're listening, but, um, but Jake will always give me props for being the first person to be like, uh, Shia LaBeouf style is very sick. I think what I was doing was what I was interested in was like a little, it was definitely still like suits and watches vibe when I was there. And it was not quite in, uh, you know, I was like, did you guys see my new mini palm dress shirt? And they're like, no, we didn't see that. You know, that was more of my zone. I'm more of like a, you know, a vintage tees, you know, kind of guy. I like clothes. I'm a short guy. So when I discovered that you could kind of like make that, make yourself look a little different with clothes, it was very exciting for me. Interesting. Well, as too tall, this is a tall guy's podcast. I know. Yeah. I'm happy that we're showing some, you know, showing the other side. Yeah, no, I'm five, four. So like, it's like anything that I could do to modulate that. you know and i'm bald i got a round face i mean i'm not the ugliest guy you've ever seen like i you know like what i think is true but like when it was like oh if your pants fit a little different like you won't look like you're you know this is incredible what are some tips for to to modulate your your optics with clothing well i mean you definitely gotta make you can't you know your pants can't drag you gotta have pants like

Like high watery kind of pants are like, this is why I didn't work out at GQ. Cause I said high watery kind of pants, but like a slightly, you know, a slightly cropped ankle, you know, keeping your pants like not on like, you know, you shouldn't wear, you know, uh, Jenko is most likely if you're, if you're, you haven't kind of made it to five, six, I would say. Good, good, good rule of thumb. Good rule of thumb. Yeah. Okay. What about, what about on top? on top you know it's funny like i've abandoned that a bit so i sort of once i remember describing my style as kind of like being like a tree you know where it's like kind of it's got a slim trunk and then the big what do you call like the leaves and the branches i think you just call them leaves and branches yeah i don't think there's a special name for those they don't have the canopy it's the canopy maybe i like a big i like a big t the uh the upper registrar the breast of the tree yeah exactly And you wear glasses, correct? I do, yeah. Now, that's always a challenge. I mean, I found a pair that I'm living with, but do you go round? Shit, I don't know. Let me look in the mirror. What are these? Yeah, they're kind of roundish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You mentioned loving eBay, and when I was reading the GQ piece about Henry Rollins, you mentioned buying a lot of rollins band t-shirts on there how many do you have you know my mom actually asked me this this morning but like not in a kind of impressed way that you seem to have it was more in a like dude really i don't know i think i have like just like you know you could have like had a down payment on a home by now if you didn't buy so many rollins band shirts yeah rollins band really matthew of all the bands that's really rollins bands You know, it's funny. Actually, since that was published, somebody sent me a new link on eBay, and I did get a new Rollins shirt. It's actually, though, for his spoken word career. It's not a banned one, strictly. That's for the heads. Yeah, really for the heads. I'm wearing my public insomniac number one 1995 tour shirt right now, actually. How much money... Well, ballpark, how much money have you dropped on Rollins-related t-shirts?

Oh, my God. I don't think I've never spent on Rollins-related gear. I have no more than $100 kind of thing. Okay, okay. I never spent $100 on, I think, a Rollins. You're not crazy. You're not crazy. Well, guys, let's be real. I don't think a Rollins. I think there's very few Rollins-related shirts that go for more than $100. You know, I once saw, though, there was a one-of-a-kind Rollins black denim embroidered jacket. and i put it on ebay and i was like i have to shout my friend out for this and i put it on twitter i was like do i buy this like this is gonna look fit horrible on me like it's like black acid wash like and i i got outbid at like 80 bucks i couldn't believe somebody else wanted this shit well that's a that's a special item i feel like t-shirts you can find them uh like a was it like a tour staff situation Yeah, but then I went and I saw my friend a couple weeks later, and he had bought it for me as a gift. Then he gave me the jacket. So shout out to Matt Worth who made that happen. It was the kindest thing. It was so sweet. So I don't know. How much money have I spent? I mean, I think it would not be unfair to say I spent about $1,000 on Rollins gear over time, maybe. I don't know. I mean, I have 15 Rollins shirts, a couple sweatshirts. I don't know. It doesn't sound that bad when you say it, but it is bad. I can't explain it. It's basically my wardrobe. Have you spent $1,000 on clothes? This is what I wear. Also, all that clothing will hold its value probably. If you buy a $100 eBay shirt, you can put it on eBay for $100 again as long as you didn't fuck it up. That's true. It might even be more expensive. That's true. The Rollins band market is just going through the fucking roof. After your story was published, fucking check went up. Everybody was just searching for it. You know, I tried to at Henry. Can I call him Henry? I don't know. I tried to at Henry Rollins and tell him, hey, man, I named my kid after you, but he didn't write me back. So I'm hoping at some point we'll get to connect. I was wondering because the story about all of it, you know,

obviously about so much more than henry rollins but you you would have i'm surprised yeah i'm surprised he wouldn't respond to that you know i had when i interviewed him a couple years ago it was just like he was super lovely very charming and like loved to talk just loved to talk about music um not at all the same kind of dude he was when he was young so i was kind of hoping he would be like that's cool i'm excited but like that yeah i i had an experience An experience where I wrote about the Lemonheads playing on Ginny Jones. Because I'm a big Dando head. And the bass player responded in the comments of the cut explaining the band side of the story. Oh, wow. It was amazing. Honestly, it was so cool. And he was like, actually, you're wrong about our motivations. And went into the... Not like a dickhead. Actually, this is the real story because that video of him playing on Ginny Jones is fucking crazy. How did you feel when you got kind of sunned there? I love being sunned because, I mean, I wish it was Dando sunning me because that's cooler, but I'll take the bass player. Whatever. I'd rather have the real story out there than just my pontification on it. Do you know his name? You're calling him the bass player. Nobody knows his name. Come on, man. The Lemonheads is Evan Dando and Friends. Come on, man. There ain't no bands. You might know the members of Rollins Band, and that's good for you, but you know. I draw the line. That's fair enough. Once when I worked at Pudamayo World Music, which was a... If you ever went to Whole Foods and they had colorful... music from the italian wine country like cds like it was that place yes and after like you know a couple of months of working there i was chatting with the receptionist and she was like do you like the lemon heads and i was like yeah she's like you know that album is same about ray which chris i'm sure you do um and she was like yeah that's my picture on the front of it and i was like what um she's the woman in the picture she took the picture

No, she's the woman in the picture. I have no idea why or how that happened and then how her life ended up that she was the receptionist at Pudumayo, but that's where it went. She's like the Nirvana Nevermind baby all grown up. That's true. I would say Shambo Ray is better than Nevermind on the record, but that's just me. All right, moving right along. That's unbelievable. Moving right along to the next. Oh, my God. That is a terrible thing to say. Guys, I'm just kidding. I don't know if you are. I don't care about Nirvana, to be honest with you. I never think about it. I never listen to it. I don't care about it. I didn't really care about it when it was the biggest thing in the world. But I do recognize its significance, and I couldn't argue that The Lemonhead's Shame About Ray is actually better because it had a much lesser effect on the world. Yeah. Do you remember when Kurt Cobain died? I do remember where I was when Kurt Cobain died. Yes, I do. I was in my mom's – I was in a Mazda minivan coming back from Six Flags. Oh, wow. Flex. I totally remember. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird, too, because, I mean, I guess I was – yeah, I mean, what was it? When did he die? 94? 93 or 94, I think. Yeah. But I just never cared about Nirvana. I don't know. I mean, Unplugged is a classic, but the rest of it I don't even think about. I kind of think of – Nirvana as the Tupac of alternative music. It's been ruined. Well, not so much that, but I don't think people understood just how powerful it was until after they died. I think at the time, a lot of people were like, yeah, just whatever. It's just some popular music. I didn't really love either of them until they had passed away. But you don't listen to Tupac. I do not listen to Tupac, but I fully understand and get Tupac. When he was alive and making music, I kind of actively disliked him. I think he's more important as a cultural figure, and what he was actually saying was pretty revolutionary. I don't think we realized that at the time. Or at least I didn't.

I wanted to talk about the GQ piece because I thought it was really beautiful and amazing. But there were some quotes that I pulled out that I would like to do a deep dive into. Oh, okay. You mentioned when you were a younger person, I guess it kind of is when you were talking about wearing clothes to make you look longer, but you would wear boxers that were large over your shorts. So people could see that you were wearing underwear that had an adult flavor, you said? Oh, yeah. Did I say that? You did say that, which was a nice line. I think it's great. You would have shorts on. It's horrible to have people read your writing back to you. You said, I'd get them a little bit big and have the bottom stick out of my shorts so everyone would know my underwear of choice had an adult flavor. Well, yeah, that was true. So that means you had a short short on and a big boxer as well. Yeah, I don't think they were short, though. I think it was kind of a long short with a longer boxer. These are big boxers, baby. Yeah, oh, for sure. This is like the Joe Boxer era of big boxers. Yeah, that's definitely true. So this is your no scrubs era. You had a T-Boss flavor. T-Boss flavor, yeah. No, I would get, I think it was mostly, probably mostly like a Gap Old Navy kind of thing. Probably some plaid happening. Definitely, that was a very plaid era. Yeah, and then I would just kind of be like, oh. Like, you know, the kind of thing where it was like, oh, did that just happen to fall out the bottom of my shorts? No, I didn't mean, you know. Oh, what, oh. Oops. You also mentioned that when you went back to therapy, your therapist fell asleep during some sessions a few times? I did, yes. A couple times. What does that feel like? Not good at all. I would say bad. Was he falling asleep out of boredom or was he just a bad person? The first time he fell asleep,

I thought he died literally because he had been in you know he was an older guy you know and I he had been in poor health for a little bit and I was talking and you know he just stopped and I was just like you know I got up from the chair I was like hey and then he's like oh my god you know and I was like oh that's what happened oh my god but then because I was so like you know I was relieved he wasn't dead we kind of like it was like all right let's just kind of keep Let's keep it moving. The second time we had to have a conversation about it, though. At least another year after that. Let me get 20 off the top, at least if you're falling asleep. He was like, I have some health problems. Medication I take makes me drowsy. It was like, cool, whatever. Yeah, Doc, I know what Zans do. You can't do that before work. Oh, man. He was very helpful to me in a lot of ways, but not... in that way. That was not great. I would say if anybody out there is listening and your therapist has fallen asleep more than once, I would get a new one. That's cause for alarm. Learn from my mistakes. Thank you for that sound advice. Yeah, it's the least I can do. The therapist I've had now for the last several years has never once fallen asleep on me. She's amazing. Shout out Dr. Coiner. I love asking the least of people. Good to hear. Is therapy different post-baby? Well, you definitely talk about having a baby. I would say for some degree. Look, I've never had a baby before, so it's hard to compare it to anything. But he's pretty delightful, so I'm kind of like, yeah. Honestly, before I go... the first couple of sessions I had after the baby were in person. I think I had two sessions before coronavirus like canceled that. Um, and so I was like, look at these pictures of my super cute baby. And now I text her a photo of my baby before we talk. Um, and I'm like, check him out. He's still really cute. Um, so honestly we don't talk about him that much cause he's kind of a chiller. Like he's a good dude. It's like, well, how's it going with him? It's like, well, he was, he was cute again today. So yeah, that was nice. Um, he has,

Yeah, it's good. So I would say the world has changed since the baby came, but not because of him. I would say the other piece of advice I would have to give is definitely just have a baby. Not until coronavirus is done, but go for it. It's fun. I don't think that's how it works. I think you got lucky. I think that's for sure true. I am not a typically lucky person as evidence. my life but this baby is pretty cool um he is definitely a chill little guy you paid it forward man maybe you know you you paid the piper and it came through for you yeah you know he actually has a rollins band onesie uh it's still a little big for him so we're waiting for him to kind of plump up but he'll be wearing that soon he'll bulk up um babies babies grow fast you know yeah he's been growing um you you mentioned that you did not want to have a boy that's true and you didn't want to have a girl And you kind of explained the reasoning behind it. And you sort of always felt like that? Because it always felt to me like having a girl would maybe be a little bit harder work. You think so? How come you think so? I think maybe from the male perspective, you sort of know how to give a boy tips based on your life and experience. And then you probably have a little bit less of anxiety about being overprotective. a daughter knowing, knowing what, what the boys can do. Jason's definitely the kind of dad who would answer the door of the shotgun on the first date. You know what I mean? When the, when the guy comes to pick up the daughter, beware of father. Right. Got it. I don't know. I think, you know, now that he's here, I'm like excited to be able to kind of let him be the kind of dude that he wants to be. And I think to be able to kind of, I don't want to say necessarily learn from my mistakes or learn from some of the things that were harder for me. I kind of just was like, I don't want to do that shit again. Get it away from me. It wasn't necessarily about him. I was like, no dudes. It was about me. I was like, I can't. I don't want to have childhood again. And then it's like, well, it's not quite the same thing. It's not like I'm going. It's not like, what was that Drew Barrymore movie where she goes back to high school? Never been kids. It's not like that. I'm not going to be going to the school for like 10, 13.

You would have to sort of relive these traumatic times through him, perhaps. Exactly. And I was just horrified that that was going to have to happen. Now he's here, and I'm like, what a delight. But even though you are now an adult person who's very intelligent and sort of armed with the emotional knowledge to be able to handle all of that, or would you agree with that? I hope so. I mean, emotional intelligence is about the only thing I feel like I have. So, yeah, I got that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got that. I got that. I think that I done okay. I mean, you think I paid a lot for Rollins shirts. You should see how much my therapy has cost. Oh, dang. Damn, he's getting these jokes off. I didn't know this was your little platform now. This is our podcast, okay? You also mentioned living off of mangoes. Oh, yeah. Which kind of has like a little Steve Jobs energy, like a fruitarian type of vibe. Oh, there is this. Go ahead. No, no, no, please. I'm done. Nothing I say will be constructive. It'll just be a bad joke. So you should continue. No, give me the joke. I want to hear the joke. I don't even have a joke. I lost it now. I'm sorry. So what kind of mango? Are you eating fresh mango or like dry? No, it's bodega mango. Like, you know, you go to the bodega and they have the case up in the front with all the chopped fruit. Yeah. I don't buy that. I don't buy that. Yeah, I did. So I would just eat that constantly. I'd come off the subway, buy mango, go home. That was just for ease of use and you like eating ethos. Yeah, there was no ethos there. It was just like, man, that's cool. I mean, if there was like some pineapple, I might grab that too every once in a while. A lot of sugar in that, you know, you got to be careful. I was not spending a lot of time thinking about health, I would say. But I felt like if I would eat a bunch of mango, that would be better. This is how it would be. Should I eat the mango or should I just eat ice cream? And it was like, well, if I eat a giant tub of mango, that's got to be better than eating a pint of ice cream. So let's just go with the mango. The logic is not bad there. Thank you. That's solid logic. That's kind of how I was like – I've lived like a lesser of two evils kind of life. Schnibber, what do you think about Yeezy and Gap collaboration going on?

You know, I mean, that sounds fine. I don't know. I mean, what, is he going to make MAGA hats for Gap? Like, I don't, you know, like, it's not, you know. Yeah, my girlfriend was asking me about that. Like, have people sort of forgotten that he is a Trump supporter? Well, no, the whole line of thinking now, guys, you guys must not be as logged on as me, is that he's kind of saying he did that to get the president's ear. Which worked, but he's not really down for the Trumpito cause. Do you believe that? What did he tell him, though? Worked? Yeah, oh my god. Guys, I'm just giving you, don't kill the messenger here. I know, I know. Kim Kardashian, one of America's greatest celebrities, is on the front lines of jail reform. That's true. So people are saying Kanye just tricked the president of the United States into thinking that they were friends? I don't know if he's saying that. I don't know if fans are saying that or if he's saying that, but it is being said. It's a possible scenario, which I guess makes sense. I mean, I was a real hater on the Gap thing at first, but I actually think it could work as far as sales go. How much money do you think they paid him for that? I bet he owns the company. You know what I mean? The Gap was pretty well documented. The Gap was steering on the edge of just going away if they didn't get a bailout. So I feel like... they had to throw a Hail Mary. And it's, I mean, look, the stock went up 30% that day or more. So that's incredible. It worked in that way. I mean, they're getting some bad press because of the Telfar side of it, because they had a collaboration with Telfar and they hadn't paid him. And they just like basically stopped responding to his emails and then announced a Kanye collaboration. Yeah, that's whack. Very bad form. Like that's really shitty. And also like. why can't you just do both? You know what I mean? I'm sure, I'm sure what you're paying Telfar, especially like an important small brand, you're paying him pennies compared to what you're paying Kanye. So like, what's the issue, you know? But yeah, I, I don't, I don't know. I think it'll, I just, I'm just, I'm tired of Kanye in general. I don't want to hear about him anymore. You know, I think it's funny. Did you, either of you guys watch the Arthur Jaffa film that was streaming online this weekend?

In the last few days, the love is the message, the message is death. No, it's still up, though, until the end of the weekend, right? Oh, is it? Okay, yeah, you should watch it if you can. It's an incredible collage film. It's about eight minutes long of scenes from black life and black death. So it's incredibly moving, but it's soundtracked by Kanye. and it's ultra light beam and it you i haven't listened to ultra light beam and you know i don't know a year or so probably and what an incredibly moving song it sort of it's like it made you just be almost more mad at kanye that he could make such incredibly beautiful moving stuff and then be just like a mega bozo it's just like how like what are we what are you doing man it's really feel the same way about roseanne Oh, wow. She's funny as fuck. But yeah, that is true. I think Kanye is all of making incredible music. It just depends on if he feels like it or not. You know what I mean? I think he's in that way, but unfortunately... Do you think he has another amazing record in him? One more? I think he's got another drive slow, homie. That's your pull? I mean... I think that it's just – it's all mental. It's all like a mindset thing for him, I think. So if he's making affordable clothes for the gap, then the music will suffer. What is he going to make? I just hope he – What do you mean, musically? Not for the gap. I'm curious. Give me the expertise. Walking a gap, what am I going to see? I think he wants to make really – Yeezy, basically. Sweats and, you know, the basics that he was making before his point, I think he wants to just democratize that and make for everyone. And, you know, in some ways, commendable. And I think he also worked at The Gap, you know, when he was younger. Oh, yeah, Spaceships. He sings about that on Spaceships. Yeah, so it's like, I think that's part of it, too. The whole story is really good. I mean...

Wait, is the Adidas deal done? Or no? Imagine that Adidas will continue to do footwear. You know what I mean? Maybe. Oh, I'm sure Adidas is probably like, we've given this man a hundred again. So, like, sure, Gap. We would love for you to deal with this shit. We'll see. You know, while we have you, I really want to talk about the Pitchfork review process. Ooh, okay. It's such an interesting thing that I feel like, you know, 20 years later still kind of matters, you know, at least. And some of the classics, you know, the jet review with the pissing monkey. Oh, yeah. Legendary stuff. So can you tell me, like, what's the process for that? Like, how does it work? And how do you decide who's going to write it? And is it? is it a democratic process or is it kind of like we hand this record to somebody and they write it and they give it a number and they do it? Oh man. Well, so, um, all, all of those things, I think it depends on a little bit on the record, but I mean, let's take maybe something that's, um, let's say, let's say machine gun Kelly has a new record out. Oh man. Did you really like machine gun Kelly, machine gun Kelly got really mad at me. I wrote about this once. I once like, Machine Gun Kelly really wanted to be, this is not an answer to your question, Chris, but Machine Gun Kelly once wanted to be in the Fader really bad. They would keep emailing and emailing and emailing. And finally, I was like, I don't foresee a time when we're going to put Machine Gun Kelly in the Fader. I don't foresee a time. And the only reason I remember it was that word is because I spelled foresee incorrectly. um and he screenshotted this email i think it was his manager who was sending this and he put this email in his music video and then told all of his fans he tweeted it was just like send that guy email and tell him to go fuck himself oh that's worse that's worse than nikki minaj half of them sent me emails that were like you don't know how to spell for c and you're an editor like go fuck yourself

So I have a lot of... You wouldn't think that MGK Hive would have such a literary dig like that. It would be more of just like, fuck you, man, and your mom is fat and stuff like that. I mean, I got a lot of those too, for sure. Don't worry. We covered it all. So let's pick a non-Machine Gun Kelly record to review. Let's say there's a new... you know, Dirty Projectors album or something. Oh, wow. We're really, really pandering to the crowd. Okay. No one on this podcast listens to Dirty Projectors. I know, I know. All right. So what does someone, do they listen to Machine Gun Kelly? Probably, unfortunately. No, I think that, no, I think that's what- They'll say like 1975s, maybe. That's what I like. That's the most interesting to me because Pitchfork now, and maybe has always, and I just didn't realize it, but reviews these big records and makes them sound more important than they are sometimes. You know what I mean? Um, and gives them this gravity that like the 1975 record is fine, but like it was, it was just poured over. So that is a good example. Yeah. So 1975, I think, you know, that's a band that I think was really beloved by Pitchfork staff. I'm honestly not a huge 1975 fan, but like respect if that's what you're into. I think there would be a conversation about like, what do we feel like, you know, who's like, what's the kind of, what's the. what's the vibe on the record basically is it good is it bad people like who likes it and then you know probably somebody on staff would would write it we have a conversation before that person would write it and say you know what kind of score do you think like what's the range you think this would get we kind of talk about the score range um for a big record like that where we know people are going to be a lot of people are even looking at it we'd have a lot of conversations about what the score was going to be and what that you know what that person thought about the album, you know, cause if, if everybody in the office thinks it's great, except for one person, you know, we wouldn't probably give it that one person that, you know, the record to review most likely. Um, so then there'll be a lot of kind of conversations back and forth. I think one of the things that happened in the past, um, you know, probably like 10, you know, maybe like,

six, seven, eight years ago, you sometimes would be like, this record is, if you read something, it's like, this record is incredible, I love it, whatever, it's the best record I've ever heard, and then the score would be, like, a four. And you'd be like, there's always some, like, kind of cognitive dissonance between those things that would make you kind of scratch your head. Like, one thing we tried to stop was that, was try to make things kind of feel like they made some sense. But that also meant, like, for records that were like, hey, check out this, like, crazy free jazz piano record that we're like, someone pitches us on, and we're like, that sounds interesting, like... the writer for that is going to say, I think that record is an eight. We just kind of have to trust them. Like we may get to listen to it once or twice, but we're not going to go as deep as they do. So in that case, it's not a democratic process. It's just like, Oh, Chris, like you think that's awesome. Like, all right, we're going to say that it's awesome. I see. So for the big boys, it's a little more of a round table to start. And then when it's some new shit, it's like, go do your thing, writer. That's exactly right. My favorite though, the thing that I would love that I was always like trying to do is when it was some neat shit and I would try to be like, this is awesome. It has to be a big record. Let's make it a good score. Let's give it best new music. I'm like trying to kind of rally people around stuff in the office. So when you can kind of like take the small thing and make it big, that was the best moment. Do you think the, do you think the review, does it carry the weight it carried 10 years ago? Um, you know, I don't know. I don't know. No, the answer is no. In a general sense, I think the industry still looks at it, obviously, because that's kind of who it's for in some ways. But I think the general reader probably flips through and looks at the numbers and the best new music. I don't know how deeply they're reading the actual text. People get excited when the score matches with their opinion. So it matters as kind of a confirmation.

And then if it doesn't match, they trust it and they're like, awesome, Pitchfork liked it. I also liked it. And then if Pitchfork didn't like it and they like it, then they're kind of like, well, Pitchfork is stupid and they don't get it. So it doesn't have that kind of like, you're like, I've had that experience. Perfect. Yeah, that's great. So that's kind of what it did. So we always kind of knew we were going up against that whenever we would talk about something. But in the past, you would read about records and not hear them forever. It was impossible to hear them. That's a good point. People now read stuff kind of as a companion. When I watch a movie, I read the review after, and I'm like, oh, that made me understand it this way. Thank you. So they do that in the same way. I don't think as many people read a thing and are like, Oh, Pitchfork said it's bad, so I'll never listen to it. They're like, Pitchfork said it's bad. Let me go check out and see how I disagree. Yeah, I mean, I guess the Fiona Apple was one that I was like, this ain't a 10, guys. Sorry, you got this one wrong. But how many 10s are there? I mean, first of all, who wrote the And You Will Know Us by the Trail of the Dead 10? That's classic. Oh, gosh. That's a classic. I don't know who wrote that. That was definitely a... You know, was that the one that had, there was one really good trail of dead song. There's no, there is no trail of dead song that deserves a 10 though. There was no, I agree. I agree. There was one good song. It was a different time. If I could make a list of my mistakes and regrets, that song, if I put your name on top and every line after it, that song was really good. They had a couple slaps, but I love that that is the... I love that, and you will know us by the Trail of the Dead record hangs in the hallowed halls of tens. I just think that's very funny. No, it is. I'm looking it up now. Okay, no. Matt LeMay, it was Source Tags and Codes, was the album. Nothing sounds more 2007 than that album title. Yeah, this... I don't know. It says if you listen to this, you'll never, ever be the same. You will never, ever be the same is the last line.

That's cool. Did you give out a 10 in your time? To Fiona Apples. That was the end of it. Yeah, no, that was the only 10 I was there for, for a new album. Really? That's fucking crazy. I think, I mean, Blonde is the one thing I think, like, retro, like, should have been a 10. That was, I think, a 9.2, and that was a big discussion, but that's a perfect 10 to me, for sure. We don't have two hours for you to talk about Frank Ocean, so we'll just keep moving past that. I thought Lana Del Rey's album should have been a 10. My vote there was, let's just give it to the 10, for sure. Her most recent album? Yeah, I think it got Norman fucking Rockwell, that album. That's lit. In the nines, for sure, but not a 10. Damn. I think that's an amazing, perfect album. Wow. I got it. You know what? It's my podcast, but I still feel like I got to hold my tongue. Let me hear it. Let me hear it. No, I just think that Londo Ray is fine. I think Frank Ocean is fine. I just don't get it. I don't get it. I think all of them have peaked already. What's a 10? What's a recent 10 to you? I'm curious. I don't even know if there is a recent 10. That's the problem. Oh, wow. My recent 10 ain't going to be anything. I mean, the Phoebe Bridgers is really good. That's not a 10, though. You know, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I also understand the review process is like, you know, you have to give 10 sometimes. You know what I mean? That's part of the whole deal. You can't, you know, there are things that someone is going to be are going to be considered perfect. And that should be given that that title, you know. Right. It had been like six years in between tens. Yeah, no, I mean, that's why I think it's interesting how serious it's taken when I thought, I mean, I think that the Fiona Apple record, which I'm a fan of her, I think it's like not good, actually. I would say it's like a six. You know what I mean? And I love all the press, and I think she's so interesting, but it just sounds kind of like an art teacher with her friends. It doesn't, I don't know. It's not, I don't know. I can't explain it.

I listened to it a lot. I disagree. Because I was like, what am I not getting here? You know what I mean? But I might not have the right, you know. You're a professional, bro. I'm just some guy. I mean. I don't think you're spiritual enough, Chris. Neither of us have jobs in mutacrisis or some right now, so, you know. All right, when you put it that way, we're just two guys, you know. Yeah, exactly. So what do you think is your ideal future next steps, now that you're a free agent? I mean. I mean, I'm going to hang out with this baby. And, you know, maybe Henry Rollins needs an archivist or something. That would be cool. Are there any more long-term writing goals, perhaps? Yeah. I mean, I'd love to write more. I don't know. People seem to like the... the thing where i talked about how i was in pain forever so maybe i'll keep doing that i guess i'll just keep digging into my personal my personal bag of tricks i loved it i loved it i think i think you should keep pushing in that direction yeah people like you know i think i'll i'll i'll keep writing most of it's just like i actually so a long time ago what i was like i was like okay i'm gonna write a encyclopedia that was my goal um because i couldn't I couldn't think about one thing without thinking about a hundred million other things. So I was like, well, I just, I got to write about everything. Are you a Virgo? Yes, actually. Gang, gang, baby. Welcome to the club. Amazing. Look, look, if you're short and a Virgo, we'd give you a pass maybe. So welcome to the gang. That's cool. Yeah. But then I was like, it's not feasible to write an encyclopedia. So then for a little while I was like, I'll just, instead of writing encyclopedia, I will write. a book about, I love, I've written a lot about Lil Peep. So I was like, I'll write about Lil Peep, but then I'll just, then when I tried to put that together, it was like an encyclopedia, but like through the lens of Lil Peep, which is not a book. So when you, when you said write an encyclopedia, do you just mean like a straight up general encyclopedia or an encyclopedia on a specific subject? No, the first, I actually, just the A to Z of the world. Yeah. And like, I mean,

I had forgotten I had written so much and I like pulled the file out recently. I was like, Oh my God. Like, cause I was just going through old writing after like, well, you know, after I was like, what do I have laying around in here? And I was like, Oh dude, like this is like, it was like encyclopedias. Like I had written about cancer. I wrote, I wrote about like, you know, I wrote about like, I wrote about dating. I wrote about like, you know. I wrote about going to the... I wrote everything you could ever... Anything I would think about. You know what I actually wrote a lot about? Because it was when she was really popular. I wrote about Ronda Rousey. And then I was talking about UFC fighting for a little while. What the fuck? Of all the things you were going to say, Ronda Rousey was not where I saw that going. She was very popular. Remember she hosted SNL? That's so crazy. Yeah, you're right. I was like, is it happening? I guess I need to cover it in my encyclopedia. That was basically how I talked about it. I didn't want to do it, but Rousey, her star was shining too bright to ignore him. That's exactly correct. She really bombed that SNL. I remember I was sad for her. Well, she's a UFC fighter. Her timing was absolute fucking shit. She's awesome, though. She trains in Glendale. Oh, that's cool. Is that true? Yeah, you can read about it in the encyclopedia. Well, why am I telling you this? I think you should put, I think, can you put up the Ronda Rousey section of the encyclopedia on Patreon and see how it does? Yeah, I'll find that part. At one point, I was like, then I was like, should I pivot and just start writing Ronda Rousey fan fiction? I was like, that should be a good idea, but I never actually did it. I mean, that's where the real money's at. Definitely. Fan fiction? Yeah, well, Ronda Rousey fan fiction specifically. Only fan fiction. Is she canceled? Fucking probably. Is she? I don't know. I actually haven't thought about her for a while. That's a lie. Guys, I got to run. It has been a pleasure, Matt, to have you on the show. Thank you for having me. No, please. Honestly, I've loved your work, and I'm happy to see where it goes now that you have a little more freedom.

you're going to be on the front line of dad writing. So we look forward to seeing how that develops. I did ask GQ if they wanted to hear about circumcision decisions, and they were like, that's probably not going to work. So hit me up if you want to hear about what happened with my baby's penis. I mean, the headline rhymes very well. It does, that's true. Tell people where they can find you on the World Wide Web. I mean, I guess I'm... What, on Twitter? Yeah, probably Twitter, I guess. Just Twitter, at Matt Schnipper. Got it. People should just call me, I guess, if they name me. I don't know. Yeah, you're great. I like that. That's 202. Yeah, exactly. I'm around. I don't know. I'm accessible. And if you're listening to this, make sure you read his story in GQ about naming his baby after Henry Rollins. It is really amazing. Thank you for joining us, bro. We'll talk to you soon, Matt. Thanks, Jason. Thanks, Chris. Appreciate it. Be well, guys. Later. Later, mate. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.