090. - David Coggins

All right, this episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Stateside with Kai and Carter, a new podcast from The Guardian. And they are using this podcast to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions that we all have about what's happening in the world. And they do it three times a week. Jason, does that sound familiar to you? We don't really talk about, you know, a lot of international global news items and climates and cultures and sports and things like that. We do talk about fashion and wellness, but for everything else, Kai and Carter are a great place. All right, so who couldn't use more news? Listen wherever you get your podcast. or watch on YouTube. Want to make a podcast? Spotify's got a platform that lets you make one super easily, then distribute it everywhere, and even earn money. We like that. All in one place for totally free. It's called Spotify for Podcasters. And here's how it works. Spotify for podcasters lets you record and edit podcasts right from your cellular telephone or your computer. So no matter what your setup is like, you can start creating today. Then you can distribute your podcast to Spotify and everywhere else, those other places that podcasts are heard. Video podcasts are also available on Spotify. And when you want to take conversations with your fans to the next level, Q&As and polls are the best way to get them talking. With Spotify for podcasters, you can earn money in a variety of ways, including ads and... and podcast subscriptions. And best of all, it's totally free. Zero catch. We've been using it ever since we started How Long Gone. And ever since I discovered Spotify for Podcasters, I feel like having the option of turning off the Q&As and the polls on the user dashboard has really helped boost my creativity and take it to another level. I highly recommend giving it a try. Download the Spotify for Podcasters app or go to www.spotify.com slash podcasters to get started.

Hello, Chris. Oh, what's up, baby? I'm just online shopping for a Joe Biden flyswatter. How are you? I was online shopping for an assortment of Joe Biden merchandise from all kinds of illustrious, up-and-coming, as well as legacy designers. I love designers and up-and-coming and legacy. I like all of those words. Real quick, did you remember to hit the record button today, Chris? Don't do that, TJ. Look, I hate to ask, but you know. You hate to ask, but you asked anyway. You could have texted that to me. You didn't need to do it on mic. Look at this little son of a bitch. First of all, I did remember. I haven't remembered once. You've been podcasting for eight years, and you've forgotten multiple times. Again. throwing the you know all i'm doing i'm just trying to preserve the quality of this show as much as possible sounds like sounds like you need to hit the cbd chief bro i need to hit something i'm feeling cb's feeling maxed out baby okay so you're feeling maxed out you know there's for for somebody whose only vice is something that creates more stress Do we need to get you the Bobby 100 Solidarity t-shirt available on store.joebiden.com? Is that something that needs to happen? I think that would make me so stressed out because I'd have to light it on fire immediately, and that would cause me some stress in general. But I don't know what would help, Jason. I think it's just, what do I do that causes me more stress? Argue with you three times a week on a microphone? I'm probably one of the only things in your life other than a t-shirt that says Kamala. Or a Latinos for Biden. They didn't go Latinxs for Biden though. That's a misstop. Or a no malarkey cheers champ beer koozie. Hunter Biden.

Hunter Biden's the coolest one because he was a cokehead. So he's cool, in my opinion. Yeah, somebody is cool. And I believe, I'm not mistaken, he had sex with his dead brother's wife, which is also pretty crazy. I mean, we're not the first to say that cocaine is a hell of a drug. I think that was post-cocaine, which is even cooler. Well, you know, there's always the residual. that that white's still floating around inside of you but um yeah i mean in terms of ways that you know what what other than you know doing um oxycontin what what have been some like stress relievers you know steam blower offers you know because you're not the kind of guy who's gonna like go to you know go to the the hotel pool and get a mai tai and read a book all day type of vibe you're not really gonna go for a walk through nature what what's what are we doing i don't know bro i think i i think maybe i need to hit the i noticed today that some of the infrared sauna locations are open in la so maybe i'm gonna have to hit that the infrared sauna burbank infrared sauna shout out to that that company where it's a lady who believes in god too much and i believe that the uh the her place of business i which i do enjoy i like going there i think it is a front or some type of like tax write-off for her essential oil pyramid scheme that she's running through the good graces of our lord but that's been open the whole time oh well i'm gonna go there then how much is it 50 bucks for an hour [redacted address] you do it they give you they give you like 45 minutes and and you can kind of do with that time whatever you want and i think it's like 30 bucks well i need see the problem is i'm in the actual infrared light for 45 so i need 15 to cool down and shower so that's not going to work for me well they don't it's not really a shower place see this is the bullshit about infrared saunas that infuriates me you expect me to leave that place drenched and not shower like what the fuck

Yeah, I know. That is a little bit of an oversight, but when you see this place, it doesn't really jump out as like, oh, I can't wait to shower my naked body here. What I've found that works best is to just bring a big towel and put it down on your car seat so when you leave, you go straight home. But sometimes the infrared be hitting so well, you transcend into a new... plane of thought to where you're like i don't want to shower because whatever's going on right now i don't want that to be taken off my body the energy and the vibrations that are flowing through me i shouldn't wash them off i've never felt that in my entire life um but maybe i'm not doing it right well that's because you uh you spent a lifetime doing cocaine instead of mushrooms first of all That's not a sneakiness or anything. You just started using mushrooms like three months ago, and all of a sudden you're a fucking expert? I did mushrooms for the first time in 1999. I'm not saying you haven't done them before. We all have done them before. I'm just saying your newfound expertise and talking points that you have are new to me. Okay, okay. Well, I think it's more of a broader... we you can replace mushrooms with anything but it's more of a broader scope of like you know the type the type a versus the type b or the left brain versus the right brain or you know the pragmatic versus the uh philosophical etc i understand i mean you know i think what's really stressing me out bro is is the corniness on social media like i can't like ronnie feig released a toy car an old picture of kamala on it i don't what are we doing guys like what's going on well why do we first of all jake jake gallagher jake gallagher and i talk about this why are is is everyone obsessed with pictures of of politicians and they were hot like why do we sexualize politicians i think that we have to blame um

the father's day on an instagram for that for when you know like i don't want to see y'all's hot dads anymore it's making this coochie wet you know like i don't i don't that's that's a thing that happened and and also like hey if if if like the only thing that you can you you are concerned with is like the physical appearance of somebody and like you're you're judging your presidential candidate by how hot they are then why not show them when they were 19 you know and wearing a tank top down by the river you know the universal age where you know most people unless they had a glow up from being a fatty you know 19 is about as good as you're going to look that's true and i mean i guess i look i understand it from a a uh money-making standpoint no one's gonna buy a shirt with a picture of an old politician on it but but i just don't i just don't it's just too crazy out there man there's too much bad stuff going on it's the world is truly stuffed to the gills with whack shit right now and on a level i've never seen and it's fucking it's got steam coming out of my ears tj oh stuff to the like a like a branzino and glendale these gills are stuffed Exactly, Jason. I was talking about this with my LP when we were walking the dog. One of the things that we do every morning to relieve stress and center ourselves for the day. If I was a suburban dweller, I would probably do the same thing. Yeah, except if you were to go for a walk in your neighborhood of failing Beachwood, you'd be... You'd be kicking over human feces and syringes, and I get that. That's why we made our decisions. But we were talking about this merch and why it's happening and what's going on. I'm curious, why are these brands, these expensive luxury designers making items with Joe Biden on it and selling...

Something that they would normally be selling for like $300. You know, you can get the, you can go to Joe Biden's website and get it for 30. I think what's happening is, is everybody has been driven so insane from Donald Trump that literally, you know, anyone can get anything to happen. If it, you know, like we can get Jacques Mu to make a fucking tank top that has Joe Biden, you know, wearing a. down by the river wearing his swimmy trunks with corn cob or whatever. You can get him to do that because if that will help get Donald Trump out of office, anyone is willing to do anything. They're like, I will make that dumbass ugly merch if that means that I'll raise an extra 50 grand and that gets 500 voters in Oklahoma and that's the difference between getting Trump out and not. everyone is just like that's the problem what will it take i don't care it doesn't really work like that though well it maybe the problem i'm having is that it shows how stupid everyone is it shows how stupid we are as a culture that we need to be pandered to with garments and and and pranks and memes to deal with something serious that's the i think that's the issue that i have with i think it's like i don't need to buy anything to support a candidate i could donate money like a normal fucking person with a brain i don't need to buy something to do that and then you want to telegraph obviously you want to show people who you support which i guess i understand but also like I don't know. I don't wear brands either, really, so it feels the same to me. Well, you know, just try this on for size, Sleepy Chris. What if, you know, with that logic, then people should just be giving podcasters Patreon money versus buying the merchandise that they sell for profit. No, no, no. What we do is stupid. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. When it's something important, I would hope people understand that it's above merchandise. It's above these things that are trivial. It's more important than that, but it gets brought down to the bottom.

Because that's the only way people can understand it. That's the world that we're living in now. Thanks, TikTok and Obama. But people don't know anything. They have to be like, what is donation? Why do that? Oh, tie-dye t-shirt, good. Me like, bye. If you spend $100 on campaign merchandise that you're going to absolutely put in the garbage can in six months, you could also spend that $100 on donating directly to the person you want to support or maybe spend it on a newspaper subscription so you understand why it's stupid to do that instead of just understanding where we are as a society and why you should be voting for Joe Biden. I think the reason why – like merch is merch. I was talking about this with our friend David Cho. Some brands or some bands or anyone who is selling quote-unquote merchandise, it's like sometimes it's like this is merchandise that's meant to commemorate a thing. yeah like the world series or i went to this taylor swift concert on august 19th in sioux city iowa whatever like that's like merchy merch merch and then there's other merch where it's like i'm building a brand and a vision and this is like a whole thing and it's not it's not just merchandise it's a clothing company and like blah blah blah like right now people i guess the real root of the problem is they're they're tying up and they're using you know their their politics and like where they're sitting and who they're voting for as as their source of identity because they have nothing else going on it's the same people who are like you know like liking pizza or like tacos like i like tacos like that's my identity like that's that's the identity of millions of people of like i got nothing like all or like you know like so like you know like cowboys is my life like that's all i got you So you with natural wine. I get it. It's the same. And me with natural wine or whatever it is. But there's millions of people out there who have such a lack of personal identity that politics is what they have devoted their life to. But that's actually wrong. Merchandise.

No, that's actually wrong. That's not the people. The people who commit their lives to politics don't give a fuck about any of this stuff. They care about actual policy and issues that matter. The people who want to performatively care about politics are the ones buying this stuff to seem smart or on the right side of history. That's the issue. Yeah, well, you know, they want to be moving their shopping cart at Old Navy and then they see somebody with the same shirt as you and you're like... yeah that's my p you know the same way when i was in eighth grade i would see somebody wearing an allison change shirt and be like comrade you're my fucking bro for life baby like uh you know it's bad well i'm gonna i'm i'm gonna stay mad but it doesn't matter you know anyway no please stay mad we need you angry In this election, Chris. I was blowing a gasket this morning. I had to ease up on my pre-workout because I thought my heart was going to explode. Damn. The American political system was the only pre-workout you need. Am I right, brother? Exactly, Jason. We do have a guest today, an old friend of mine, a great New Yorker, and originally a Midwesterner. The great city. He's a tremendous New Yorker. The great city of Minneapolis is where he hails from, home of the replacements and prints. Third in line there is David Coggins. He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, Men in Style. His second book, Men in Manners, was also a hit. He writes for the Wall Street Journal, Condé Nast, Traveler, All the Above, The Rob Report, my favorite rich guy magazine. He's an angler. What else is he into? He's a snappy dresser. He's a motherfucking sartorialist, baby. Yeah, that's true. He really is. We're going to talk to him about all kinds of shit today. A secret about David Coggins that you might not know is he has incredible taste in music that aligns perfectly with mine. So get ready to fall asleep. Him and I go deep on the Afghan wigs while Jason jerks off the Tiesto memes.

Let's give him a call. Damn, I feel like Biden and you're the Trump and you don't. Oh, just shut up, man. Okay, bye. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by Squarespace. Obviously, Jason, you and I spend a lot of time on the World Wide Web, sort of our peers, our listeners, our friends, our colleagues, maybe even your parents if they're freaky. And if you're doing anything in the world. writing, taking pictures. I do topless boxing. You need a website. Exactly. A website that works, that does what it's supposed to do, that allows you to be creative, but also business-minded. Jason, there's one place to go for that, Squarespace. Yeah, Chris, I'm over here. I'm modifying calculators and putting Claude inside of them so you could cheat at school. And I just want a place where I could have everything all in one place. I can have the SEO tools. So those future graduates can find me and, you know, I'm able to accept quote unquote donations for my services that might be gray area. You know what I mean? And then email campaigns. Hey, I got a new, you know, 2.3 version upgrade. Boom, boom, boom. Get the analytics going. Raise some money. Show your investor all of your cool analytics of what's going on. They're going to want to get in early and we can use Blueprint AI to make your website look as professional as your competition, if not more. So head to squarespace.com slash howlong for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code howlong to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. This episode of How Long Gone is brought to you by a new podcast from The Guardian. stateside with kai and carter this is covering a lot of our bases jason it's a it's trying to slow down the news and wrestle with the questions we all have about what's happening in the world and i know you particularly have quite a lot of questions a lot of questions but how often because we do this podcast three times a week and that's a sweet spot how many times do they do three times a week and i i have a feeling just based on the platform and these talking points that they're maybe going to be covering different stuff than we do that's just a guess the guardian is not some billionaire owned

They're not afraid to say what they want to say, brother. Yeah, Rupert ain't sniffing around in what journalists Kai Wright and Carter Sherman are up to over there at Stateside. But yeah, listen wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on YouTube. It's three times a week. And who couldn't use more news? Especially when it's not from here, let's say. Give it a listen. Give it a listen. Oh, this is huge for me personally. This episode of How I'm Gone. It was brought to you by TaskRabbit. Oh, baby, let me tell you something. This is not a joke. I use TaskRabbit a lot because I can't do anything. You need some art hung? TaskRabbit. You need a fucking something put together? A cabinet? Got to reach that cheese grater on the top shelf? TaskRabbit. Anything you need, TaskRabbit can take care of it for you. How it works, TaskRabbit connects you with skilled taskers in your area. They can help you move. They can assemble furniture, repairs, yard work, mounting, and more. You can search for a tasker based on cost, skill set, availability, and past client reviews so you know exactly who's showing up and can have confidence that they know what they're doing because taskers have assembled over 3.4 million pieces of furniture, completed 700,000 home repairs. handled 1.5 million moves, and the numbers are just going up, Jason. Yeah, throw a little money at the problem. It's not so expensive. And that job that you really don't want to do is something that another person out in the world is very good at doing and would gladly do it in exchange for a little bit of money. So when life happens, your to-do list grows. Get ahead of it now and get $15 off your first task at TaskRabbit.com or grab the TaskRabbit app using promo code How long? Taskers book up faster, especially for same-day tasks. So book trusted home help today. That is $15 off your first task using promo code HowLong with the TaskRabbit app or at TaskRabbit.com. We're here with David Coggins. He's sipping what looks to be a light white. What is that? Also, he's wearing a shirt with a tie right now. That's also true.

Hello, boys. I thought this was because we're not doing video for your listeners that I was in a safe space and I could drink my Riesling and wear my knit tie undetected. Let me drink my motherfucking Riesling, bitch. David, this is not a safe space in any way, shape, or form. But I appreciate that you came. you know, dressed for this podcast, you know, Jason's wearing an earth crisis, animal liberation t-shirt, which could not stand in greater contrast to your, to your look. Jason's representing himself and I'm representing myself. So in that case, we're very similar. Wow. Wow. It's different. Damn, we could use some of that at the debates. You know what I mean? That's some nice diplomacy right there, my man. That is some nice diplomacy. Coggins, you're locked in. You're back in the city. You're back in your humble abode. How does it feel? Well, it honestly, Chris, it feels a little bit like Halloween every day, which is kind of it's festive. It's a little unsettling. It's slightly unhinged. Everybody's outside, which in theory is nice. But in practice, just feels like kind of on the brink of chaos, which depending on your sensibility is either good or slightly less good. Yeah, yeah. Now, you know, I have I just thought about this. what kind of mask does David Coggins wear? Because Jason and I both are medical only. That's where we land with that. I have 100 black medical masks. I like it. But also, Chris, you mentioned it is Halloween. Are we talking about a COVID mask, a Halloween mask, or the metaphorical mask that we wear every day as we navigate through this new normal? No, no, no. I meant actual masks to protect yourself. He's like, oh, I wear a Borat mask every day. It's Halloween. The COVID-19, the cursed COVID-19 disease. So what are you, did Drake's make you a custom? No, I wear these and I just read that maybe they're not as safe as they should be. It's just like what looks like a bandana, but it's a buff. I don't know if you know that company. It's like, that's what I wear when I'm fishing.

And so I continue to wear that. And then somebody said maybe that isn't as safe as it should be. So I might have to recalibrate here. Yeah, the only thing that's helping with is scaring the fish away. David, you don't seem like a COVID denier, but you also don't seem terrified of the disease, which is how we stand on this podcast. I try to minimize contact with people. I'm kind of a solitary. I have to say quarantine in many ways agrees with me. Before, I could just stay inside all weekend and write and read and feel slightly guilty, and now I don't feel at all guilty. I can just live my life the way I wanted to anyway. I'm glad that this disease has killed hundreds of thousands of Americans and has empowered you as a writer and reader. That's great. It's a very, very small silver lining. David, it's helping all of our sub-stacks. It's true. So you were on the road, much like myself, for a while, though. You were hitting multiple locations, both domestic and international. Hey, don't stop dry snitching on our boy here for being another super spreader. No, he's in a super spreader pod. I was in Wisconsin for a long time in isolation, but I also did make a road trip out to Montana and Colorado and Wyoming, which was pretty nice, and then rolled the dice for some reporting. And by reporting, I mean I had to fish in England for my book. But at first I had to quarantine for two weeks. So I flew all the flights. All our beloved Delta flights were canceled from New York. So I went down to Atlanta. I believe you know that airport well, Chris. And flew from Atlanta to London. And it was, I have to say, pretty tranquil, actually. And then in the English countryside, I quarantined there. So it was actually pretty responsible, all things considered. In the English countryside, is COVID not real there? That seems like a place where it really isn't affecting the day-to-day. I have to say, if you can go anywhere, that's a place to go. But in every country, it seems to me, or I'm guessing everyone, at least in England, they still were kind of coming to terms with how to protect.

You had to finally wear a mask inside, but then the people who worked in a pub or in a store didn't have to wear a mask. So there were some inconsistencies, but they were pretty serious about tracing and other things. But it's a good place to be if you can be there. What's the fishing like? So first of all, for our listeners, David is an avid fly fisherman. If you follow him on his popular Instagram account, you've probably seen this. The guy pulls up lunker after lunker out of sea, fresh water. You know, I'm anti-fish photo, though. That's the thing. I hardly ever post photos of fish. All of that's true except for the lunker part. Okay, so why don't you like to post, is that a little too cliche? Or is that because you just straight up are bad at fishing and you really aren't putting much up out? It's probably a combination, but I think, I feel like the, first of all, don't take them out of the water if you don't have to, if you're going to throw them back anyway. But also it kind of, it distorts the experience, I think, because you then, it's like, it's not about the picture. It's not about the result. It's about the process. And so it's more philosophical. The connection that you have with man and fish. It's a more pretentious thing that, yes. No, I think that's cool. I like that. It's like all things sustainable. It is a little pretentious, but it's worth a greater message. So how long have you been gill-pilled for? How long have you been twisting that rod and bending that fucking rod? For pretty seriously, I would say 20 years or so. And it takes about 10 years to get it where you need to be if you're not doing it all the time. And so it's strange, though, to read something in the New York Times where it says fly fishing is the new bird watching, which sort of makes something I love seem completely trite and cliche. There it is. Damn, shout out to the birdwatcher community. Yeah, don't come to the birdwatchers. No, it's not that. It's when the New York Times style section tries to do a trend piece. Right. And I usually find out about it on Chris's Twitter because he's carefully following these things that will get me upset. And I just follow his outrage. The guy curious. Well, with the fishing, now, the gear has become popular in...

Fashion circles, some would say. Totally. So if I were to pose, if I were to steal fisherman valor, what would the number one piece be, the most accessible piece to a layman like myself, a man who only feels comfortable on land? What would it look like? Well, Chris, for you, because you're so locked in, I feel like you're going to have some sort of Japanese-made vest. And so something that's like highly considered. And then you can also use it for your photography career as well. Because I feel like most of the guys who wear those vests are really like street photographers or something. But of course, like I don't wear a vest. So it's very funny to me. And all these things that they're doing, I don't really do any of that nonsense. Just keeping with the pretension theme. I'd rather have something that's like 50 years behind the times. So naturally I'm on eBay looking for that. What is the, but the vest is just to keep shit in or is it basically, or you're saying it's stylistic overall? It started as something to keep shit in and then it developed into, I mean, you can make a better one or a more intuitive one. And so naturally Japanese people loving design and loving the more technical fabrics made like better versions of it. But it just encourages you to have more than you need in any case. So you don't actually need that at all. And I mean, I don't know anyone who wears a vest, but. That's why Jason wears shorts all the time because that lightens his pocket load because they'll fall down. You know what I mean? Exactly. If he puts too much stuff in them. I don't actually use pockets in trousers. That's why I wear a sport coat because I don't want to put anything in my pants' pockets. So I'm totally light. Because you need all the help you can get in that bulge zone? What's going on? You keep the silhouette. I mean, Tom Brown knows this. Don't ever put anything in your trouser pockets. I carry a fucking Tom Brown purse when I have my suit on. There is nothing. Those pockets are basically sealed shut. So trousers, is that like pants? It's like, yeah, it's like, you know, I try not to use the word pants and I try not to wear shorts. So, you know. OK, so yeah. So if you have stuff in your in your trouser pockets, you know, like your keys, wallet, cell phone, your. That all goes in the sport coat. That all goes in the sport coat. Yeah, it's just an organ. It's not even about formality. It's just a organizing device. Yeah. I mean, when I am wearing a sport coat, it does feel nice to be able to put.

Things in all of the pockets, you know, in the breast, on the outside. It does feel nice. Jason likes it because he wears a suit once a year to a wedding, and he always finds a little leftover Coke in the inside pocket, I think. That's what it feels like to me. Yeah, one time I found a baby bell in there of an unknown origin date. That's what it is. But, David, you'll carry a bag, won't you? I'm pro bag, of course. When you're fishing, do you have a big old fanny pack or do you wear a backpack? Where do you keep all of your stuff in so it don't go in the water and get all wet? For a while, I believed in true minimalism. I tried to make everything fit into my shirt pockets. Then I graduated from that. So it's like there's many different levels of pretension, as you can imagine. So first there's like the minimal level of pretension, and then I realized I needed more. So I have a kind of a Filson bag that I wear. I guess you'd call it technically a crossbody, and I had some adjustments made to it. Sorry. Oh, my God. Coggins is pulling up in the Filson waxed cotton bum bag? Crossbody? It's a crossbody. Made some adjustments, and so we can include the length. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You have to make a few changes. So you go fishing with the Herschel crossbody bag. What color neon is it? It's like a dead man's khaki. So you're telling me that you took your Filson crossbody bag to the tailor? Is that what you're saying? You know it. Of course. Wow. This is God-level shit. I don't want this water bottle containers on either side, which don't need to be there. So my friend Jake took them away. He said it was no problem. You know. I like it. I mean, as a man who just had a pair of vintage Carhartt work jeans reconstructed fully from the ass to the ankle, I love... Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, that to me is...

That's everything right there. Like when you know what you want and then you can also know someone to make it for you. I'm all for it, Chris. That's true. And the fact that you and I are so well versed in this and Jason, the guy who's 6'10 and can't find clothes in his size isn't, is a problem. You know, I have heard of tailoring before. But the thing is that I can tell Jason looks great in a suit like most guys. And I'm sure when he's on this one time a year. when he's at a wedding and wears it, people are like, he looks so great. Oh, that's true. No, let me tell you. And then every time that does happen, the selfie goes on the grid, not on the stories. And then, you know. The big board. It goes up on the big board, and then, you know, all these thoughts really start coming out of the woodworks, don't they? Coggins knows. Well, Coggins, so. What is this book about? You've written two books already. I didn't know you had more in you, to be honest. This is more focused on the fishing lifestyle. Yeah, it's called The Optimist. It's about fishing and travel and kind of obsession. I think it's about more than fishing, hopefully. I mean, that's the elevator pitch. It's about loving something. So every chapter is like a different place and a different fish and a kind of a different skill or virtue. But hopefully we'll connect with people who care about something and kind of let that thing take over their life in a way. So that's what it's about. Do you ever do any non-fly fishing? No. Are you just a fly guy only? Straight fly, but there's all sorts of good things to do. It's not just trout fishing. It's like going to the Bahamas, fishing in the flats there, which is really incredible, or going to Patagonia, going to England. I'm just talking about if I just wanted to use a bait casting or a spinning reel versus fly. Is there something wrong with that? Or something not as cool?

Is fly fishing the fixed gear cycling of the aquatic world? Yeah, fly fishing is like squash and bait fishing is like racquetball, I guess. But, you know, it's a more complicated cast. How dare you? It's a little more rewarding, I think, because it's a little harder. And there's more kind of developing your skills over time, which it does make a little bit of, I guess you'd say, barrier to entry. But that can be a virtue, I think. Well, you know, on this podcast we're big fans. We're big fans of barriers of entry on this podcast. That's a big thing for us. But once you get used to it and once you learn and kind of bend the learning curve, then I think fly fishing is incredibly rewarding to all sorts of people. And it doesn't have to be as pretentious as I'm making it sound. I'm fascinated. I'd love to go out with you sometime. Yeah. I think Jason has a little more experience as an angler. I'm interested in going to the Bahamas with you just to kind of check it out. You can go out on the boat and stuff. Easy to arrange. I feel like I can find a personal trainer in the Bahamas that can take care of me while you're out doing your little guy stuff or whatever. Yeah, Chris wants to play with the pigs wearing his bikini with Amrata and the gang. Exactly. So now, Chris, whenever you're looking at a place to vacation, the first thing you look at is personal trainer. location x i mean look i'm not i don't i don't look for it it look it finds me i would say is the more the more it finds you more when you sign up for notifications i think yes yes yeah exactly it does it does it does work that way um yeah it's like chris chris whenever he goes to a new land he's in a new town he'll say you know like denver i'm in you right now on twitter And then the DMs of all the personal trainers just start flooding his account, and then he really gets his pick of the litter. That's exactly what I wish it was like, what I wish it was like. But I think that, because fishing, fly fishing in particular, how does it feel in your body? Is it strenuous in any way, or is it pretty relaxing overall?

I think, well, if you're wading, it's really quite nice. So you're in a river in many cases with like a big current and you're wading upstream. So you're kind of connected to the water, to the natural world in a way that can be really nice. If you're in a river, it's cold. So you're probably wearing waders. If you're in the Bahamas, you're in the flats. So you could be in shorts, which is really lovely too. So you do, you're on your feet for eight hours and you're focusing in that time. Yeah, that can be a good. Good experience. You could make it work for your core. I was about to say, that sounds like something that's going to require a nice core, which is something that I possess. So maybe fishing is for me. Chris has one of the nicest cores on Apple. I didn't. I will. It's I didn't. I guess I the places you get to go, though, are very interesting to me. I'm, you know, I'm not a big outdoor guy. It's well documented. I'm a major cities only kind of guy. But but I see where you're at, Coggins. And I got to say, I'm my interest is peaked. I think you could do you go to Patagonia, but you stop in Buenos Aires and Buenos Aires. You will is an amazing city. And then you get a little time. Patagonia. And that just increases people's jealousy of you, Chris, because your friends will want to know what it's all about. And then you come back and tell them. We don't just wear the shorts, bro. We go to the place. You know what I'm saying? It's two different things on this side. So when you are in Patagonia, are you living like a Francis Maulman type of situation where you are pulling that trout out of the stream and then ending his life with your special blade? We're not gutting it right there. And then doing a salt bake? Or what's going on? The fish is going back into the water in our case. So you ain't eaten. No, we put it back. The place we fish usually have rules about catch and release, and I'm more of a catch and release person. But it's definitely the lodges where we stay, they do the grilled asado. The guides make this incredible lunch at the side of the river every day. It's absolutely incredible. I mean, Argentinian hospitality is truly great, and you're getting all the Francis Malman stuff big time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Putting that goat up on the Iron Cross. Yeah, exactly. Basting him with sea salt water. Yeah. So when you're out there, are you smoking a nice cigar? I might have a cigar at some point. I mean, you usually get back at like the end of the night. The stars come out. It's 10 at night. You can enjoy, you know, like the stars are inverted because you're in the Southern Hemisphere. It's quite nice to see the Big Dipper upside down. Damn, Jason, think about what that would look like on weed, bro. So you take the dipper and you flip that thing? Southern Hemisphere, it's all happening. And if you need any substances, the guides are there for that. And they're also having herba mate all day, too, so you get a little bit wired. Damn, this sounds great. So I've been trying to cut back on my cigarette. Really? Yeah, really. I actually have. I haven't noticed. It's a very new development. But I don't really like the – I haven't been able to understand the joys of a cigar. Do you have any tips on how – I'm not trying to become a cigar guy. I just truly don't get it. Well, the thing about cigars is that it's a good thing that are used by bad people typically. So I would never smoke in public because I can't stand it when a bunch of guys get together and they're all smoking. So to me, it's like a progression. But, yeah, it's like the progression of a meal, right? So you have your grilled goat. You have everything. And then at the end of the meal, maybe you have a little, like, digestif. And then you have, like, you're outside. You smoke, like, a mild one. A cigar is a type of thing that the better it is, the more mild it is, in my opinion. And then that taste is pretty good. I don't think you drink much, maybe. So I don't know if you have cognac. But it's a good thing if you're outside and on your own looking up at the inverted stars. Oh, I'll put them down, chief. Don't worry. Jason loves to get twisted off a fine cognac. All right, great. Have you sampled the blends of Covasier? Naturally. I went to the distillery. Wow. You know what? This podcast is eye-opening. Who knew that TJ and David Coggins had so much in common, actually? The ground we're covering here. Well, I'll tell you who knew Coggins and TJ.

I guess so. We've been in the DMs exchanging ideas for months now. It's tough, David. I feel like James is going to be talking to the grill master in Patagonia, and he's going to be importing and distributing green eggs in Ferro Loche and making a fortune. Look, I've been trying to crunch the numbers on the shipping costs to get them down there, and it just ain't working out. It's tough. I mean, because sometimes, David, it's tough to bring Jason into my into my, you know, my higher end New York fashion media bubble. You know, sometimes Jason's a little intimidated or off put off by some of the characters that present. But you guys are getting along like peanut butter and jelly. Yeah. Some of these 22 year old writers who did a story about about the newest episode of the Real Housewives of something. I've been very intimidating characters to tangle with, but I've managed to pull through. It's tough. It's the beauty of having a bi-coastal elite podcast. You really introduce each other to different stuff. Oh, yeah. Now, David, you launched your own content platform, The Contender, which I like, and now you've also launched a subbie, but you and former guest and legend Michael Williams have a podcast of your own. Yeah, I mean, I realize like these things are pretty much awful sounding, but like normally I wait and do something like 10 years at like I'm the last person to get on like a dying media platform ship when it's going down. I'm like, hey, Friendster could still work out. But you're the vulture coming to clean up the last bits of the mess. In this case, Michael said just. do a, do a newsletter. And I guess I didn't really know what, how a newsletter worked. I just thought it was, I didn't realize it had an actual kind of landing page and an archive. And so, you know, I can connect to my tailoring obsessed youngsters and write about fishing and drinking and fly fishing and tailoring and all this stuff that I like traveling. And so that's, I was going to ask.

Who are the Coggins' heads? Who are the dedicated Coggins' followers? The Cognoscenti, if you will. Do not. You had that one chambered, didn't you? I did not. No, that's off the dome. I didn't even have any cold brew, bro. That's natural, bro. I wrote down gill-pilled earlier, and I will admit that, but you have to say that you did not come off dome with the Cognoscenti. Well, Chris, let's say, imagine a nice young guy who goes into Sid Mashburn in Atlanta. Okay. That's kind of, who likes tailoring, like maybe wants to learn more about it. That's kind of the guy, maybe. How, yeah, maybe could lose 20. Well, I mean, then they're really, then I refer them to Chris because I'm not going to help them. You're like, look, a tailor can take out your waist a little bit, but he can only do so much. Yeah, that's the most important thing to know about why to know a tailor is that then he can like adjust your clothing, which is, you know, the best thing about him. And he doesn't even make you have to say it. Like my tailor just says, we'll take care of it. And he doesn't make me say. take it out yeah he doesn't say you need to stop eating so many meatball subs but i will be able to fix you he just does it well you know for for my situation you know my my problem is the sleeve is always too short never too long so i can right you know much like uh adding salt to a dish i can i can always add more i can never take it out so what do i do in my situation if uh you know i need I need a longer pant or a longer sleeve. Am I going to have to go custom? Or are there other things going on that I don't know about? I think the best thing that could happen is if someone actually measured you so you knew what your measurements were and really had them done. I've measured myself, but only certain parts of the bot. I think you can...

It's behind the paywall, David. You understand that. I understand. That's subs only, baby. I think you need a tailor. Someone measures you, keeps it on file, and then once you have that, you can actually find things on eBay. You can do all sorts of stuff. You need a tailor. Someone can make you your favorite shirt, your favorite whatever, even if you just need one version of it. The problem is, Jason, when you say shirt, you mean t-shirt. And when you say pants, you mean shorts. Because Jason, that's kind of his look. But t-shirts and shorts are the only thing that I can buy, quote unquote, off the rack and have it fit me. Is the reason why I'm wearing a shorter sleeve in a short short. If you had the perfect white Oxford shirt that you loved. Which I do. I feel like it needs to feel like it fits correctly because if something doesn't fit correctly, it's never going to enter the rotation. And you can just donate it to a backup point guard on the clippers or whatever. Exactly. Yeah, so I guess that is the goal. I have a few items that I don't even wear anymore, but I keep them because I was like, damn, back in 2007, this pair of jeans was like... the perfect fitting thing. And like, I've never going to find them again, but I hold on to them because one day, you know, maybe I will just have them broken down and, you know, make a pattern out of them. And, and I'll be, but if Chris, I don't understand. Chris is, is making things from scratch for himself and he's, Chris is making things from scratch for himself and he's not offering anything for you. I'm not making, the only thing I'm making from scratch myself is this entire podcast and the how long gone brand. I'm not the, the, the clothing. You said something about Carhartts that we're redoing. Oh, well, I have clothes. I mean, I take everything. Much like you, Coggins, I'm big into tailoring as well. Mine just isn't imported from Italy and custom made. Mine is more like these Levi's I found that look cool don't fit waist good. Need to adjust. But that's great. I mean, to me, I love it when.

I feel like tailoring should be more muscular in that way. Like it should serve the person. It's not something about like, nobody even has to know about it. It's not about status or anything else. It's about like making things correctly for you. And that is great to me. And I feel like somehow we've gotten off track with that. Like how nobody needs to know about Chris using Grammarly when he's writing his tweets. That same type of editing can go unknown. Yeah, yeah. The most important thing is that you sound like yourself. So Chris is in a pretty good spot, I think. You have to admit it at this point. Yes, thank you, David. I finally some support from a guest instead of being attacked by both parties. David, I was reading some of your style rules. You had a list of style rules and there was one line you got. You're going to need to sip after this. One line said... Sneakers are for boys and expensive leather shoes are for men. But for somebody like me where the nice expensive leather shoes for men don't exist in my size, what would you suggest I do? Or is that another thing where I'm going to have to go full custom? No, I feel like those rules apply to 90% of the people 90% of the time. If you're over six, six and a half, you're in a whole different... moral universe no i mean gets i gotta the thing has to look correct on your foot and you've got to feel right in it and i don't know like if a desert boot looks good for you if like some loafer looks good for you if it makes your foot looks long or short or correct or whatever it is so i mean you've got your own but i'm saying they don't make those in my side like i can't get it then let's talk buy a loafer then i would then in that case unless it's like a medical one I think that then I do, I feel like there are places that can make specific things for you and it's going to cost more than you want at first. But if that thing lasts for five or eight or 10 years, you got to kind of look at it that way. And I mean, to me, it's like, do you want to buy more things that you're unhappy with or one more, you know, bigger investment that you keep for a longer period of time? And I know that's like completely by best letter, but by less, by better.

And we're kind of sick of that. But I do believe in like getting, I mean, I look in my, we all look in our closets and we see we have too many clothes. We would happily consolidate. And they're like, that's why I just get confused. I used to get confused at the Barneys, you know, sample sale and other things like that. And I would buy a bunch of stuff because it was marked down that I never wear. Oh yeah. I mean, I have helmet laying garments from a previous Barneys warehouse sale that I don't even know why I bought it. Jason's done some work to get his look up to snuff. I mean, I've seen you. You know what looks good on you, Jason? I know it's not a dress shoe necessarily, but you can wear a Birkenstock in a way that feels dressy for you somehow. That's because he's usually wearing the shorts and a t-shirt, so he finally puts on some... That's a good point. That's a good point. Do you have a desert boot, though? Don't you? You do have some Clarks, right? They don't make Clarks big enough for me, unfortunately. But maybe what you need is like they'll if one of these brands, if you actually like them, you just say, listen, you don't make something big enough for me. Will you make it for me? Because I'm a, you know, the Howard Stern of the podcasting world. And then they're like, yeah, happily. And then they make it's like becomes a whole campaign. And like we made this one thing. I'm not trying to change you or make you into some more formal person. I mean, you've got it figured out for yourself. I mean, those are rules for guys who are looking for rules. Yeah. And a person who's. who's arrived at his own sensibility, can do whatever he wants. I disagree with you, David. I think he needs a little pat on the butt, if you will. You have a more butt-patting dynamic. I don't know Jason well enough to start. to get to that level, though I'm happy to, when we're in Patagonia together, we'll get into the deeper questions. Oh, yeah. Well, to that note, do you own any sneakers at all? Or do you wear sneakers outside of when you're, you know, exercising? I don't own sneakers. I have a couple pair of...

of new balance that Chris black sent me in a previous incarnation of his influencing life, which I love. And when I go running once a year, uh, shorter time each year, uh, I think of him fondly. Well, David, the funny thing about those shoes that I sent you, although they're, they're aesthetically pleasing, they're not really for running. Oh, no kidding. Oh, I don't, but you have to understand that when I'm running, like I'm wearing my running suit, I've got my running tie. No, I like my, my running is like a speed walk. two blocks and back i mean i'm you know and then i haven't used i've known you for a while i don't think i've ever i don't i've really i've is it true that i've never seen you in a in a collarless shirt i don't own a collarless shirt i mean and i would never leave the house collarless so that's that's fucking smoke for tj that little his little casual ass not that i'm i'm dressed up necessarily but that's Wild. But you have to understand, I can't relax unless I'm overdressed. That's me. That's how I am. That's the natural way for me. But I don't want anyone else to suffer through this the way I suffer through it. And so that's okay for everyone's going to find their right level. It's like how much you want to cook when you're at home. And I know one person here cooks for himself and the other person doesn't. And one person wants to make a more elaborate meal and one person wants to order the sweet green. Great parallel. Honestly, great parallel. I can't leave the house without the stick on me, but I was curious, what are you sleeping in? Are you a head-to-toe long-sleeved PJ or with buttons on it? Do you have Charvet pajamas, Coggins? Do you sleep in the rubber waders because that feels like home to you? It's funny. I used to have all the Sleepy Jones pajamas because way back when I was doing some photo shoots with them and some work with them. between us and because no one's going to be listening this far and i'm you know it's hot in that so i just like to keep it simple and boxer shorts and you know obviously suspenders and a bow tie whatever just uh boxer shorts are going to do it for me all right but i but i do but i do think that that there's nothing more impressive than than uh than pajamas with the tops buttoned up all the way and you go out to get your la times and you know that's like that's very cool

Oh, yeah, scoop up the newest issue of the failing LA Times in a $400 pair of PJs. Mamma mia, that's good life. That would look good. I feel like that would look good in Glendale, Jason. That's a very suburban thing to do. Well, once the temperature dips into the double digits away from the triple digits, I might start doing something like that. David, let's talk about podcasting. Yeah, man. Since you've recently been introduced into the pod game and you know Chris and I, I can't help but think that maybe we have influenced you and I know that you listen to this show. I do. What are some things that you've learned about podcasting in your short career? Well, it's funny. I've been interviewed a number of times and that's easy because you just let the other person lead and you respond. But I really like podcasts between two people who are friends. So like Andrew Greenwald and Chris Ryan. And I'm sorry, Chris Black I love, but Chris Ryan is my other favorite podcaster. But I love the dynamic between you guys and I'm really impressed by how you both get your... your lines in your questions in your like sweet digs against each other. And, and, and like, and I was joking that I think Chris black is like the ball dominant guard. Well, Jason, you're the pull up dead eye shooter. So like you have less chance with the ball, but then when you do, you really have to like drain the three. And so that seems like I'm really impressed the way you guys never. Coggins, TJ is my shooter in more ways than one. So I think that's a great parallel that you just made. Yeah, I'm able to drain in a high stress situation. But you guys also can interview people, get things out of them, but also express your own opinions and still get your lines in, which is... If anyone else wants to try it, it's hard. Were you asking me to compliment you? That was my next question. You're an intelligent, wise man who has done a lot of things in your life, but podcasting is something that you've only been doing for a smaller amount of time. I was curious what little things you've picked up along the way.

The hard part, basically, I wanted to do one with a friend. When Michael Williams and I talked about doing it, I liked the idea of checking in with him once a week. I don't know how you guys do this three times a week. Once a week is insane. Have you seen the news cycle? Welcome to the big leagues, Coggins. You guys also seem to do it without a lot of structure. I definitely need more structure because otherwise... I think there's a real art to, like, there's a fine line between catching up and kind of bullshitting with something that's got a little more, like, form to it. And when you're on your own, it feels like you're sort of without a net. But when I hear you guys, you sort of, like, manage to navigate that pretty well. Let me put this in words that you might understand. This is what we would call barbless podcasting. Does that do anything for you? That is very good. I enjoy it. That's a very discreet fly fishing book reference. Okay, well then, with your observant ear and eye for this specific podcast that you're on right now, are there some things that you would like to see more of from us? You could say some things you'd like to see less of from us, but specifically the more of would be good. I hadn't thought of that. I mean, it would be interesting. I guess what I'd really like is to see like each of you on your own separately. And then I would like to know like how you interviewed Francis Melman versus, you know, Chris interviewing Maureen Dowd or whatever it was. Don't give us that much credit. Like Jason said, it's 22-year-olds who just wrote a review of a Real Housewives episode. That's what's really happening. But the other thing is you guys are out there looking for a huge audience. Michael and I are behind a paywall, which is way safer. And so it's already for people who are kind of into what we're doing. And you guys are really out trying to do a bigger thing. Casting a wider net. I admire them. David, you guys don't have guests, right? Or you haven't yet? We're going guests. We just have to like...

They're saving up for a third mic. We need the styrofoam thing that goes over, the foam thing that goes over the mic, and then we're ready for it. That's all you're waiting on. Yeah. We're just trying to figure out the right dynamic. And, of course, one reason we started it is just to do it enough that we realize what we have to get better at and what we're not as good as we'd hoped we were at. I'm sure that has never occurred to you guys. Oh, no, no, it occurs to us, but that's life, baby. We just take it, we take it, we steamroll this bitch. You know what I mean? Yeah, when you pod this hard, you don't have time to think about shit like that. It's true. I mean, I think that this takes up a lot of our time, especially with the addition of the new Twitch program, but overall... Yeah, man. It's still, I think you, you, if you like doing this, it's fun. You know what I mean? So it's like, it doesn't feel that like the planning can sometimes feel laborious, but the actual act of podcasting does not feel that way to me. Well, when are you guys getting some assistant? I thought I would be dealing with some underling and it's just, I'm getting it straight from the top. That's not what we do here at how long gone industries. I'm more of a hands-on boss. That means that you're a prestige guest when we. we give you that type of white glove service. But, you know, if you're just some dumb dumb who's writing for the failing LA Times or Wall Street Journal, you know, like we won't, we'll send you like a virtual AI type of invitation at the very most. When you guys start, when you finally get the full Sweetgreen partnership, like they should deliver Sweetgreen to your guests half an hour before. Like, I mean, I totally see this happening. David, that is a great idea. Don't give the cow away for free, bro. That is a plus idea. I want to give you guys ideas to bring this all the way, and you can send me a freaking done-to-death T-shirt. I can't wait. Can you make the deck for this, please? And then I'll make sure that we get a T out to you. You're a rock star for that. Thank you. David, have you ever eaten Sweetgreen? I think so once somebody else arranged it. I have nothing against it. It just seems like it annoys me, but I don't know why.

Well, are you a formal lunch guy? Do you want to sit down at a restaurant for lunch? Oh, yeah. But more so than dinner or both meals? Good question. She likes a standing dinner. I don't mind a standing dinner. I like to sit down. I mean, do they serve wine there? I feel like they don't. And I don't like a place where people are going to eat and go back to work. I want to eat somewhere where it could be more time. It could be an hour and a half. Okay, so you don't want there to be a time limit at the end of it. This lunch could be an hour or three hours, and I don't want those restrictions going on. I don't get that very often, sadly, but that's in my perfect world. What are your top three New York ladies who lunch spots? Mine, I'm going to say Balthazar. I'm going to say San Ambrose on Lafayette for me. But I would love to hear the Coggins. I feel like yours are more uptown, baby. No, I like – I mean you can't beat Balthazar. San Ambrose is a little bit – I feel like I might run into people I don't want to see there, but not you, Chris. I mean, I would actually go just to Lafayette across the street, but I would either go for like a late breakfast or a late lunch. Like I'm trying to miss the people who are kind of. I'm not, David. I'm trying to be part. I want to be at the corner table loudly speaking about things I shouldn't be talking about. No, I like that. I mean, I used to go to Via Coroto because it's a block from where I live. But one of your great previous guests, Hannah Goldfield, evilly and cruelly. and should never have written that it was the best restaurant in new york and it has not and it's not her fault by any means and i love her writing and love her dynamic and everything about it but um i'm not thrilled with that situation like it's impossible to get in at lunch at the counter so i've had to um and i used to see hilton all's there which was like my favorite new york sighting and then i finally stopped going there because i could never get in so i went to king which is a truly great restaurant further down six avenues i'm familiar

As you're familiar. Is that LeBron's spot? Yeah, exactly. We have a Shaq's big chicken here in Glendale, so I guess it's the same kind of vibe. Well, somehow, when I saw Hilton Alls there, I felt very, like we were all, even though he writes for The New Yorker, just like Hannah, we were all displaced from our beloved local place. And I like... what's what's the Ignacio's place on uh Spring Street and um yes yes yes yes yes um actually that's that's that's I always forget the name and that I always see um that's where I saw Hilton not at King I'm more of a bar pity you're you're a bar pity guy right I saw um Noah Baumbach there once and I just left and I was like that's all I need in the world is a Noah Baumbach sighting at bar pity and I've seen I've seen Fran Lebowitz there, and that really did it for me. But I like it because it's cash only, baby. And that is something that we need. Maybe they take Amex in cash, which I accept only. Don't bring your little Chase Platinum in this restaurant, losers. But the food there is bad, though, right? No, Bar Pity's good. I think you have to know how to order, which is a translation that it's a 6 out of 10. Yeah, I mean, that might be true, but you know, my best, I think I've told this story before, but just for you, Coggins, I saw the most powerful table I've ever seen was at Mr. Chow on 58th, and it was Anna Sui, Mark Jacobs, John Galliano. Wow. And Sofia Coppola. Ooh. so did you just leave after that or i literally i i literally was like they were at this weird table that was like because you know when you walk in that restaurant you walk down to the dining room and there but there was one big table set up by the bar there and i just couldn't believe it and luckily the luckily the hostess sent me with my back to the table. Otherwise, it would have been difficult for my guest. You wouldn't have been able to focus on your meal. Just to be clear, Chris, you were saying that I eat lunch in Midtown and you're telling a story about Mr. Chow on 57th Street. David, that was dinner and I'll go to Mr. Chow. I went to Mr. Chow on my birthday here in LA and ate on the sidewalk in Beverly Hills. That's how much I like it. This is the only guy I know who likes Mr. Chow.

No, but I understand. At a certain point, you're like, yes, the food is this bad. And yes, it's this expensive. And that is the attraction. And you're like, wait, it's way worse than I remembered and way more expensive. And that's like the ultimate power of it. Jason likes Mr. Chow. Don't front, Jason. I've been there. I've taken you there. Who is paying? I've been to a lot of places. I paid. I paid. I definitely. The first time Jason went to Mr. Chow. The best thing you can hear at Mr. Chow is dinner's on us. And then you're like, great. I had one good thing at Mr. Chow and it was a martini. Okay, guy. Jason, don't do this. Don't show off for David like this. I'm a food fluencer. I can't be caught eating Mr. Chow when there's lots of great, authentic, traditional restaurants. Mr. Chow is, as a celebrity, Mr. Chow is authentic and traditional for me. Yeah, no, it's power cuisine. I think that's what it is. That's exactly, David, that's exactly what I, the only kind of restaurants I want to eat are power cuisine restaurants. Let's go to La Grenouille when you come back. We'll all go and we'll make sure they've got got vegetarian for chris and uh jason i can split some uh you know brochet de canal or something hell yeah baby but it's casa it's cafe ultra paradiso just so yes i do like cafe ultra paradiso i do i do like it i mean i really liked estella i think estella is a great restaurant yeah i guess Alto Paradiso is like there's enough space between the tables. It's beautiful light in the daytime. That's where I saw Hilton Als. When you guys are in New York, but we should really do a power lunch. We can do whatever you like. I'm up for midtown. Why don't you join us in LA and we'll go Sunset Tower. I'll buy you a shrimp cocktail poolside on the How Long Gone card. Coggin, what are your thoughts on failing Los Angeles? Just as a whole. I like L.A. I mean, the big thing for me when I was in L.A. is I used to feel too formal and uncomfortable there. And I couldn't quite. There's a weird thing for people who live in New York when they go to other places. They want it to be understood like it's not on the grid. And OK, is this neighborhood like this? And we say terrible things like, oh, is this the Tribeca of L.A.? Like impossibly annoying things. And I was like, I need to relax here. So I like finally I just realized that's not going to work.

I obviously look like a neurotic New Yorker. Embrace it. Wear a suit. Wear a tie. And just enjoy it. And, you know, wake up at 6 a.m. because you're on East Coast time and have breakfast at the Chateau Marmont. And I used to go out there every year for my birthday, stay in a cabana, eat the, like, gringo special at that ridiculous taco place from across the street. Hell yeah. Pinche, baby. Pinterest tacos? and go to the liquor store and stock up on champagne and Miller Lite and just enjoy three days. I love L.A. Jason, I'll tell you what. You painted a picture not unlike a Tony Bourdain, rest in peace. Yeah, honestly, Coggins, you really know how to live, bro, and that's what I'm really attracted to. Yeah, I guess L.A. is pretty cool. I mean, I stay at the Chateau Marmont, drink champagne, and then sometimes I'll go down and get a breakfast burrito. Oh, it's called the liquor locker. That place is wild. If you ever actually look at what they're advertising, it's like on their board, which is supposed to be the cheap thing, it will be like, Johnny Walker Blue Label, $199. What is this? It's like it's in Dubai or something. That's because it's still cheaper than buying it at the Chateau, so it works. I've been at the Chateau and looked at the menu and being like, oh, I'll get a bottle of Whispering Angel Rosé for $90. But if you walk three steps around the corner to the liquor locker, it's 28 and you can get two bottles. And then you're pouring up. Not only that, people go there to replace the minibar. So you go in and you just ask the guy who works at the counter. And so actually my policy when I used to go to this. He's like, what room number? No, I just say. clear it out because I don't want to get distracted. And like all arguments I've ever had with women is have to do with like mini bar and Toblerone and all terrible stuff. So I have that cleared out, which they're totally used to because a ton of alcoholics are staying there. But then I go over to the liquor locker, stock up and all the miniature bottles people buy and replace what they have. But I guess not anymore. That is approach. Yeah, not anymore. Now that all things have gone.

I've gone to shit, including the old Chateau Marmont. Don't do that. I'm going to get one more. I might stay one more night before I head back to L.A. just to take a dip in the pool. Well, Chris, if you do that, I'll get the fucking eight ball, baby. Let's really do it up. The eight ball is only for me. I've stayed there since I did an eight ball there, but yes. I think that it does. Unfortunately, that... That hotel is really a trigger for anyone who formerly liked to use drugs. Chris, that reminds me that I saw you and you've actually been in my apartment at a kind of pivotal time in your life before the revenge bod, before you took over world media domination. And you came over and we watched the Westminster Kennel Club dog show, which is like a very important thing for me. So we watched it together and it was absolutely great. And you gave me, I don't know if you remember, I think you were like, I'm giving up. I'm moving on. I don't want to get too personal, but like I'm moving on from from marijuana and you gave me your last marijuana. I was like, this is. I have that thing. I just want to say, Chris, that so I kept I showed that to people. And I was like, this is Chris Black's last weed he ever bought. And then actually, when I finished it, I put other weed in there and still told the damn story because it was so impressive. And people were like, and that's going to the Hall of Fame. And I'm sure we've all moved on from that. But I still think of it very fondly. This is my last marijuana. I did that with my pill. I gave all of my pills to my friend Eric Chakine. I distributed things. I just blanketed the city with drugs that I could no longer use. That's really funny. I don't want to make light of a serious thing, but it was a tender moment. It was a tender moment. I loved watching the dog show with you. I feel like I learned a lot. Why is the Westminster dog show such a big thing for you? I'm just upset. I've watched every Westminster Kennel Club show for probably the last 28 years. And I love the guy's voice. You know, the doctrine was introduced in this country in 1980, whatever. It's your VMAs is what you're saying. It's exactly what it is. That's my reality television. And so I watch it very seriously. I've written about it. I mean, like the history of dogs is like the history of...

It's about farming and sport and royalty and vanity. And so I'm way into it. But I'm a little angry because it always goes to the poodle. Yeah, in breeding. Right. So are you a dog owner yourself? I'm not. My family has a Bernese Mountain dog, but I don't have that. That dog, Milo, is his name correct? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I love Milo. I only like big dogs that could look like me. So I'm very into that style of dog. Milo, so a Swiss, you know, Bernice Moundog, is not quite as fit as you, Chris, but he otherwise is big-hearted and good on social media. Good on social media. Has a little bit of a kennel cough, just like CB, and that's fine. Wow, kennel cough. I've never even heard that term before. Guys, it's been a pleasure. Yeah, half of these things you're saying, I have to decide if they're well-known phrases or really obscure, and I just laugh along with them. Kennel cough. I think that's Jason knows a lot of dumb phrases, but Coggins, you know. That's when you hit the backwoods too hard. Exactly. Get that little kennel cough, baby. Yeah. That being said, it is a terminal illness that many dogs suffer from. Make sure we spay and neuter our pets, baby. All right. See you guys next week. Don't do that, Bob. No, but Coggins, honestly, it was great to hear from you. Glad you're doing well. Likewise. People subscribe to David's Substack, The Contender. Listen to his podcast with Michael Williams. Buy his books wherever they're sold. And the new book comes out when? May 2020, 2021. We got a title for this thing yet or no? Yeah, The Optimist. Scribner Books, baby. The Optimist, that's right. The Optimist by David Coggins. Travel, fishing, eating, only the good stuff. You know what I mean? I can't wait to drop a line with you, comrade. show you how it's done uh thank but thank you guys and uh jason actually no thank you jason thank you david we'll talk to you soon yeah see ya later